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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#97701: Oct 21st 2017 at 2:09:11 AM

[tup] General Hruschov. Fun fact: I looked up his actor, Lloyd Battista, to see if he played any other CMs, and while this is his first, he voiced the father in Fievel's American Tails!

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#97702: Oct 21st 2017 at 3:03:24 AM

I was initially going to vote yes for Fyodor, but I realized I misread the effort post and confused it with a different 40K 'nobledark' fanfiction setting. From the sound of this one, the canonical heinousness standard is still fairly relevant, so I'm unsure.

Tolik and the General seem like easy qualifiers, though.

Edit: NM

edited 21st Oct '17 3:04:58 AM by nrjxll

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#97703: Oct 21st 2017 at 3:53:09 AM

Heres my rewrite :

original : The manga version of Professor Souichi Tomoe was supposedly a loving father once (or at least Hotaru thinks so), despite being a Mad Scientist even then. He completely snapped after the accident in his lab that crippled Hotaru (her manga self is a heavily scarred cyborg, thanks to it) and killed her mother, willingly joining Death Busters and implanting the egg of Mistress 9 into Hotaru's body without any sort of second thought. He also had a massive god complex and wished to create a new race of superbeings, starting with himself. He was toned down in the anime, where he was mostly a Brainwashed and Crazy father who made a Deal with the Devil to save Hotaru after the freak accident - not knowing that they'd be rendered insane in different ways. The manga version, however is pure evil.

rewrite : The manga and Sailor Moon Crystal version of Professor Souichi Tomoe was a scientist who was taken out of the scientific communty for his dubious and inhumane experiments. After an accident caused pharoah 90 to start to arrive he discovered a daimon egg of mistress 9 which he implanted in his own daughter causing her grevious injuries which caused her to become a heavily scarred cyborg. He would experiment on humans to make them into vassals for his master and would use daimon eggs to forcefully muate living creatures putting them through agony and Body Horror. His reason for tryng to bring pharoah 90 into the world to combine with it and bring about the end times was because he was simply curious. He was also highly emotionally abusive and controlling towards hs daughter and made it very clear he no longer loved his wife. Nearing his defeat he mutates himself into Germatoid just to allow his master the world. Tomoe shows that even in sailor moon Humans Can Be The Real Monsters.

edited 21st Oct '17 4:16:29 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#97704: Oct 21st 2017 at 4:02:28 AM

I have another candidate: Judas from Satans Return. It is a horror film, so I guess you can consider it my Halloween Effortpost.

Who is Judas and what does he do?

Judas is either a demon in human form, or a Satanist who has been given satanic powers. He goes around looking for a woman who is supposed to be Satan's daughter. His goal is to perform a ritual that involves cutting out her heart. If she survives, it proves she is The Antichrist, and Satan will be able to make his way to earth to bring about the apocalypse. Judas doesn't know who she is, only that she was born June 6 1969, so he goes around killing all the women with that birth date that he can find. After murdering two women, Judas's pattern is discovered by the police, who have three policewomen get fake birth certificates saying they were born on that date, in an attempt to catch Judas in a sting operation

The attempts to catch Judas with their sting operation fail, and he manages to kill one of the policewomen (named Leon, odd name for a female, but this was made in Hong Kong). He starts to pursue the protagonist, Ching, another policewoman (though not one of the three selected for the operation), convinced that she is the Devil's daughter. While following her through the station, he kills two police employees who get in his way. He is eventually captured however, and interrogated by the police.

Judas reveals that he has the power to see into the past and future. He taunts the lead male officer, Nam, about how his wife was gangraped and now has cancer, telling him that he rapists are dead and that he can never get revenge, also saying that his wife will be gangraped again and killed and that his son will get cancer. Judas also reveals that he had previously beat his girlfriend to a pulp (this is why I am confused as to if he's a demon or a human with satanic powers, he's immortal and has powers, and is repelled by crucifexes, but he mentions having a girlfriend), and that he hates women. Judas tries to attack a policewoman, but Ching hypnotizes him into surrendering and allowing himself to be arrested. Judas manages to break free and kill Ching's friend rose, but is subdued again right after.

Judas manages to escape from prison by hanging himself. When the guard walks in and takes his hanging body down from the ceiling to try and revive him with CPR, Judas, not having been affected by the hanging due to his immortality, chokes the guard to death and steals his uniform. Escaping from prison, Judas gets his previously unseen cult who also have demonic powers to help him kidnap Ching. The cult takes her up to a building to perform the ritual at 6:00, but the police arrive with a priest to help them. The police and the priest are able to kill Judas's cult with special bullets laced with... something holy. Sorry, not sure what. Nam manages to kill Judas by using a nail gun to impale him on the cross and setting him on fire.

And so, all seems well and good. But Ching has now truly come to question herself. She decides to prove to herself that Judas was crazy nd that she isn't the Devil's daughter, even if it means killing herself. She cuts her heart out just as the lock strikes 6. She survives, and the movie ends as we are left to assume that now Satan will come as prophesized.

Heinousness?

He is trying to bring about the apocalypse, and he is willing to kill women to do so. He murders a total of seven people (the first two girls, Leon, the two police employees, Rosie, and the prison guard). He also tries to murder a policewoman at one point knowing that she is not the woman he is looking for, just because he hates women, and reveals that he had previously battered his girlfriend. In a major Kick the Dog moment, he taunts Nam about his wife having been gangraped and having cancer, telling him that she will be gangraped again and killed and that his son will also get cancer.

Redeeming features?

There is one small thing. He seems quite loyal to Satan. whenever he screws up in his mission in the movie, he says "Punish me master" causing his head to slam into something due to an unseen force that is obviously Satan. Just before his death, his last words are "Forgive me master. I have failed you." I believe that we have let in other characters with fanatic devotion before though, nd aside from that, there is nothing at all.

jjj
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#97705: Oct 21st 2017 at 4:32:11 AM

[tup]Judas. Sounds like a bellatrix and FANG situation of a Psycho Supporter rather than true loyalty in a disqualifing way.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#97707: Oct 21st 2017 at 4:44:44 AM

I'll give a [tup] to Judas and the guys that 43110 and Scraggle proposed (Sorry if I overlooked it :3)

Also, I think you've done a decent work on Tomoe's writeup @Miraculous now that's how we know why the guy is a CM. And yeah, the part where "He would experiment on humans to make them into vassals for his master and would use daimon eggs to forcefully mutate living creatures putting them through agony and Body Horror.".......Seals the deal for me and loses those redeeming qualities that he has in the past. I think you could also tell he is an interesting CM like Griffith or Kiyotaka Maki. One who has a redeeming qualities at first but then sheds it as the story went by. Also, any proof that Tomoe was emotionally abusive and controlling towards his own daughter? Just saying.

edited 21st Oct '17 4:46:11 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#97708: Oct 21st 2017 at 4:47:55 AM

[up]Here ; Abusive Parents: In the manga. He is very emotionally abusive to Hotaru and used her for his experiments in his own selfish motives

Reminds me off zouken matou once loved somone but just forgot about them and became just selfish.

[down] I like both as his anime counterpart was a symphatetic Anti-Villain and you could symphatise with the guy. His manga/Crystal incarnation though was Love to Hate and totally despicable but really fun to watch and somone you wanted to see get there a as kicked but was still enjoyable on screen like medusa gorgon and goku black.

edited 21st Oct '17 5:04:52 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#97709: Oct 21st 2017 at 4:58:05 AM

[up] Thanks smile Btw.........Anyone still have a thoughts on Floyd or whatshisname

And btw........Which version of Tomoe is better? The manga version who already qualifies as a CM or the toned down anime version which gave him some sympathetic and redeeming qualities in your opinion?

edited 21st Oct '17 5:01:08 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#97710: Oct 21st 2017 at 5:03:23 AM

[tup] Tolik, Hruschov, and Judas.

edited 21st Oct '17 5:03:54 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#97711: Oct 21st 2017 at 5:18:33 AM

[tup] Tolik, Hruschov, and Judas. Not sure about Fyodor.

edited 21st Oct '17 5:19:03 AM by TommyFresh

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#97712: Oct 21st 2017 at 5:36:55 AM

@elfenflied : Actually tomoe is closer to father and zouken matou then who you mentioned as they were scumbags and CM's in the main story but flashbacks showed they were once had mitigating factors. While Maki and Griffith had redeeming qualities in the main story but lost them over time due to Character Development as it went on and became CM's.

edited 21st Oct '17 5:39:02 AM by miraculous

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#97714: Oct 21st 2017 at 6:05:55 AM

[up] It's Kiyotaka Maki from Kamen Rider series

@Miraculous Thanks for the answer smile

EDIT: Whoops! After looking at Google search.......His name is actually Kiyoto Maki. My bad :3

edited 21st Oct '17 6:16:38 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#97715: Oct 21st 2017 at 6:20:56 AM

[tup] Judas

His loyalty doesn't seem redeeming for me. We allowed the High Priestess from Samurai Jack and there's no difference in loyalty there. It sounds like worship rather than actual care for the being.

edited 21st Oct '17 7:26:40 AM by ReynTime250

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#97717: Oct 21st 2017 at 8:22:18 AM

[tup] to Tolik, General Hruschov and Judas.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#97718: Oct 21st 2017 at 8:35:54 AM

All right people stay tuned I got the great leader up who was the first kamenRider Big Bad and a little bit latter I'll effort-post the black cross Fuher who was the first Super Sentai Big Bad. Let's go two for two.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#97719: Oct 21st 2017 at 8:53:18 AM

[tup] Judas. It's Satan's Return BTW, or Shaolin vs. The Devil's Omen in the US.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#97720: Oct 21st 2017 at 9:01:53 AM

Giving a yes to all the previous examples

Vampireandthen In love with an Uptown Girl from Northern Ireland Since: Apr, 2016 Relationship Status: A teenager in love
In love with an Uptown Girl
#97721: Oct 21st 2017 at 9:06:54 AM

Still reading up on the Chaos faction for the Nobledark setting, and from what I have gathered, the only member capable of matching Fyodor is Lady Malys, a Dark Eldar who serves Chaos and is the Nobledark's setting of Abaddon. Even then, I am pretty sure the Dark Eldar are disqualified, correct?

For reference, Lady Malys is the one behind the Black Crusades, feeding off millions of souls and what not.

Fyodor, on the other hand, didn't need a push from Chaos to betray the Imperium and try to take it over.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#97722: Oct 21st 2017 at 9:28:02 AM

Abstaining on Fyodor, as I don't know how dark the setting is compared to the original setting.

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#97723: Oct 21st 2017 at 9:32:09 AM

[tup] Tolik, [tup] Hruschov, and [tup] Judas.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#97724: Oct 21st 2017 at 9:53:43 AM

[tup] the General... been waiting to say that one and [tup] to Judas too

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#97725: Oct 21st 2017 at 10:01:48 AM

Oh! And speaking of Sailor Moon.......I forgot one thing. While Tomoe and Wiseman are keepers. Do you think that Queen Beryl or Sailor Galaxia could be a CM or not?

edited 21st Oct '17 10:06:07 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."

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