During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
What's the Setting?
Nobledark Imperium, a fan reworking of the Warhammer 40k verse. This one is notable for making several divergences from canon, such as the Emperor still being alive, an alliance between the Eldar and the Imperium being formed to save Isha, Eldar Goddess of Love, Chaos being defeated but re-emerging thanks to worship of the God-Emperor, becoming a faction on par with the canon Tau, the Emperor surviving to the present day, and an invasion by the entire Tyranid Hive Fleet. Keep that last one in mind, it will show up again later.
It is in this backdrop, with a much stronger Imperium still lead by the God-Emperor, that Fyodor Karamazov, known as the Despoiler, the High Proctor of Salem, or more commonly as the Butcher of a Thousand Worlds, leaves his mark.
Who is Fyodor? What has he done?
Fyodor Karamazov is a name spoken of in hushed tones across a million worlds, and with very good reason.
As an Arbiter in the Ordo Malleus, Fyodor Karamazov possess a mind, charm, zeal and determination to rival that of even Sebastian Thor himself. Eventually rising to become a High Lord Inquisitor during the 12th Black Crusade, Fyodor Karamazov had a talent for spotting heretics, witches and cultists. However, his talents were dwarfed by his paranoia and psychopathy, rivaling the Primarch Perturabo. The Emperor was extremely bitter in allowing Fyodor to continue to operate, but he didn't really have much of choice, given the 12th Black Crusade was going on and he needed the help. Thus, Fyodor could continue his campaign across a million worlds, burning heretics and cultists alive, his paranoia fueling him to burn anyone he suspected.
However, as absolutely power corrupts absolutely, so did this happen with Fyodor. And this was finally proven at what came to be known as the Salem Witch Trail. After an entire system was liberated by Saint Salem and her crusaders, Fyodor proceeded to condemn Saint Salem, her crusaders and the people they had liberated as heretics and witches, committing Exterminatus on every world in the system and all nearby planets. At this point, even though burning a few innocent lives may be acceptable with the 12th Crusade going on, the Emperor simply could not condone the slaughter of so many innocents in such a scale and on an individual basis as well. Thus, Fyodor became a wanted criminal, with the Ordo Sicarius being given orders for his arrest.
However, Fyodor had in fact always viewed the Imperium as too soft, even before he became an Inquisitor. With his charms he had managed to create a following for himself among the more orthodox factions of the Imperium, convincing to help as he launches a 'Crusade of Change' which is essentially a civil war in the Inquisition, to take control and bring the Imperium in line with his ways. At the head of the Judgemental Crusade Fleet, is now burning and enslaving his way across the Imperium as he wages a shadow war against the Emperor himself and the Inquisition, all while the Imperium is fighting a Fifth War for Armageddon, a 13th Black Crusade, and an invasion by the entire Tyranid fleet, escaping capture through the use of shadowy webway technology.
Here is a quote about the guy, a full one year before the Salem Witch Trail, from another Inquisitor. "I will repeat this for the one last time: that thing is no man but a vile Genestealer infiltrating our ranks that. Needs. To. Be. Purged!"
Any Migating Factors?
Been heavily reading up on the Chaos faction of Nobledark, and while they are all bad in their own ways, now of them really can compare to how awful Fyodor is. They have some form of motivation or were manipulated by the Chaos Gods. By Fyodor was motivated by his own paranoia, psychopathy, pride and belief that the Imperium is too soft. This man betrayed the Emperor with literally no pushing from any of the Chaos Gods, but instead, a belief his ways were best.
Conclusion
A paranoid psychopath with delusions of grandeur who wishes to impose his will upon the Imperium, Fyodor manages to prove that sometimes, even in a setting with the Chaos Gods, the most evil people are those who believe themselves to be completely and utterly in the right.
edited 20th Oct '17 11:12:23 PM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.In addition to the Chaos villains having mitigating qualities themselves, how do they compare to Fyodor in terms of heinousness? Even if he has no redeeming qualities and they do they still contribute to the heinous standard, which, if this fic is anything like the source material, is absurdly high.
Well, the equivalent of Abaddon here is Lady Malys, a Dark Eldar character who serves the Chaos Gods. Haven't gotten much info on the trope page here, which needs serious love, but from what I can gather, Malys and Vect marrying was enough to make several Dark Eldar leave in disgust.
However, I would say it could be argued that since the Dark Eldar are just inherently evil as is, and most of the other Chaos champions have at least some tragic elements, Fyodor really doesn't have the same excuse as them. Here is a link to a character page for them. Not much on Malys.
Notable Daemons and Followers of the Dark Gods
.
Most of them are given some kind of sympathy, but Fyodor isn't. He is waging his war because he seeks to basically impose his own will, which, combined with his paranoia and psychopathy, would spell bad news for the Imperium, which is basically The Alliance here, as they even have the Tau as a member state. Furthermore, the Imperium is already fighting the fifth war of Armageddon, a 13th Black Crusade, and the entire Tyranid race, and yet, Fyodor is persecuting his own war against them at the same time, and getting away with it. Think about how selfish someone would have to be to stab the Imperium in the back like that.
edited 20th Oct '17 11:41:46 PM by Vampireandthen
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.Mmm... I think I'm going to wait for a more clear view on the heinous standard of the fic to be presented before I vote on Fyondar. He sort of reminds me of a character I mentioned a while back when talking about Fabius... the Redeemer, who was also a nutbag Knight Templar cruel even by the standards of the Imperium (albeit his loyalties were entirely with the Imperium).
edited 20th Oct '17 11:40:04 PM by Scraggle
Sympathy or inherently evil aren't the issue here. All antagonistic forces, be they anywhere from Anti Villains to Complete Monsters contribute to a work's heinous standard, that is, the threshold a character must reach with their actions to be considered for this trope. To be able to judge this character, I'm going to need a comparison between him and the other bad guys in the setting. That link I sent you on the last page has a handy section on how to compare heinousness.
edited 20th Oct '17 11:41:38 PM by 43110
Yeah a character who cares about there men or shows genuine honour will not count but if they are worse than a character with no redeeming qualities and are on the same resource level then that character can't count as well.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Recommended to me by our beloved Scraggle, we'll be teaming up for this one since it's got a few nasty bastards. Let's dive in:
What's the work?
In Hell is a 2003 action joint starring Jean-Claude Van Damme as Kyle LeBlanc, an American (not that he's bothering with the accent) expatriate in Russia, jailed for shooting his wife's killer after the man bribed the judge to let him off. Put into a Hellhole Prison where prisoners are abused and often die from negligence and violence, run by the ruthless and greedy General Hrushcov who runs a fighting ring amongst the prisoners to bet with his friends. Well Scraggle will be giving you all the brutal details on the good General, I'm here to talk to you about his chief guard, Tolik, who may not run the prison but sure as hell is going to make the prisoners' environment match the movie title.
Who is Tolik? What has he done?
In his very first scene we know he's going to be a charming fellow when his men force Kyle to remove his belongings. Kyle, not wanting to forget about his recently-deceased wife, leaves his wedding ring on which Tolik demands he remove. When Kyle desperately pleas to be allowed to keep it, Tolik beats him with his nightstick, pulls a picture of his wife Kyle had been hiding to callously throw away and forces the ring off Kyle's finger to take for himself.
The very first night, Tolik takes the 21-year-old prisoner Billy from his cot as the others sleep and forces him into a cell with a violent inmate named Andrei. Locking the two together, one of the chief's henchmen tells Andrei he better win them a lot of money the next day as payment for giving him Billy. Tolik leaves Billy to be beaten and raped by Andrei for the entire night, smacking him around the next morning and ordering the broken and terrified Billy to line up with the other prisoners.
When Kyle gives a solemn look to the broken Billy, Andrei blows a kiss at him in mockery, leading to Kyle attacking Andrei and the two fighting. Now, given that he makes a shitload of cash betting on Andrei, Tolik has a bit of favouritism going on here and only punishes Kyle. Locking him up in solitary, Kyle is driven to grief by the loss of his wife and the shitty condition he lives in, attempting suicide to escape the hell. When his suicide attempt fails, Tolik puts Kyle in the cell of the otherwise unnamed "Inmate 451" (played by none other than mu'fuckin' Lawrence Taylor) whose murdered his past three cellmates, mockingly telling Kyle so before leaving him in the hopes 451 will kill him too. Don't worry though, Kyle doesn't spend all his time there since Andrei gets into another fight with him so he ends up spending more time locked in solitary.
As the film goes on, Tolik takes every turn to prove how much of a power hungry bully he is—beating Billy for attempting to escape and spitefully throwing him in a cell with Andrei to be raped again and when Kyle proves he's a good fighter that Tolik and the General can make good money off, shows fierce brutality, ordering the increasingly bloodthirsty Kyle to kill his opponent, even as he lies helpless on the ground.
When Billy tries yet another escape attempt, Tolik says he's going to add time to his sentence (however much he feels like) and leaves him in a cell with a massive prisoner to be beaten. When the prisoner beats Billy to death Tolik shows some annoyance, as he believed Billy's handsome face made him an ideal way to keep his top fighters like Andrei in line before throwing his body out like trash to be buried with all the others who've been killed in the prison.
Kyle, finally sick of the fighting ring, refuses to fight his opponent and much to the fear of Tolik and the General, other prisoners begin doing the same. Hoping to break Kyle's spirit, Tolik chains him by his arms outdoors, leaving him for days in the elements. Getting sick of Kyle when this doesn't work, Tolik suggests killing him to the General but his commander refuses out of fear doing so would turn him into a martyr to the other prisoners.
Forcing Kyle into a fight with a massive, abused prisoner named Miloc hoping he'll die getting beaten into a screaming wreck the other prisoners could no longer see as a hero, Tolik becomes infuriated when the duo befriend each other. Pulling his pistol, Tolik threatens to kill them if they don't continue, aiming it at Kyle who refuses to fear him, Miloc suddenly charges the chief, forcing him to empty his clip on the giant man to save himself. The prisoners begin to riot and although the initial breakout fails, Kyle engineers an escape plan in which he captures Tolik but refuses to kill him so as to remind himself he's not a monster of the prison like the chief. Fortunately, Kyle doesn't have too much sympathy for him as he throws a lever to drop a car body on his knees before finally escaping in the chief's uniform.
Heinousness?
While the General has all the power in organizing the fights, Tolik spends all of his screen time using the authority he's got to make life a living hell for his prisoners, allowing rape and straight up encouraging murder of his own volition. Dude's got the hallmarks of a Psycho Supporter, not someone Just Following Orders.
Mitigating factors?
None... in every single scene he's in he never displays anything remotely good or human.
Verdict
He's a yes from me.
Stay tuned for evil boss!
Concerning Fyodor, in comparison as an example, Ysiun is a White Scars Captain who did the right thing on the battlefield, costing them the battle. His actions ended up saving the 13th company but also being arrested and court martialed for his actions by Hus jealous captain. Due to a series of events which lead to him being branded a traitor, and with the threat of his own subordinates being arrested as well, he ends up joining Chaos in order to overthrow what he views as a weak Imperium. However, he is very much a woobie and has a code of honor.
Luther is a Fallen Angel pretty much, who may have tried to join Chaos because of fantastic racism, but also to double cross them. Didn't end up going so well, though, but he does show concern for his men.
Erebus serves the Dark Gods and basically is a middle man for the various factions, though not as bad as the others.
Lady Malys, a Dark Eldar serving the forces of Chaos as the Chaos United champion, is pretty manipulative and twisted, committing numerous atrocities and generally being what you would expect a Chaos worshipping Dark Eldar to be. She may have the excuse of being Always Chaotic Evil at least, though she is still pretty bad. We are talking ground souls into dust bad.
Fyodor has burned millions of people to death, wiped out a newly liberated system full of potential allies for the Imperium and all the worlds which happened to be nearby, and was always planning on overthrowing the Emperor himself and installing his own brand of justice to make the Imperium fall in line with it. He also is enslaving citizens of the Imperium as he foes about waging his own war against the Emperor, and is probably aware of how hard pressed the Imperium is. And what motivates him is his paranoia and psychopathy.
This version of Fyodor probably ties with Lady Malys in terms of scale and depravity of his actions. Seriously, wiping out an entire system and several nearby world just because you think that the people who liberated then are heretics and witches? Fyodor is very much everything wrong with the Inquisition in this setting, maybe even the whole Imperium.
Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.'Yes' to Tolik.
Glad to see most everyone is in agreement on Westcott still counting. I'll debate whether or not to give him a rewrite, as I could probably both trim it AND incorporate some of his new crimes.
I'd also just like to call attention to the sheer witchcraft I have performed. The Date A Live anime has been DEAD for 3+ years, with the anime ending in 2014 not even halfway through the story.
One day after I made my Westcott post, lo and behold, a flipping third season has been announced. Trippy stuff, I have to say. 0_o
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Gotta think on Fyodor later
@Miraculous Speaking of Tomoe.....I remember something. I want to know why his manga version ended up qualifying. I mean, there's a part of his writeup that making me very wary like for example:
1.He's a loving father once
2.He snapped after the lab incident that crippled Hotaru
These parts is where I'm pretty wary if Tomoe qualified or not and I don't know what kind of heinous deeds that he has done in the series that made him qualify as a CM other than implanting an egg to his daughter....I mean, I searched for the discussion for him but it's a bit futile actually. Do you think that Tomoe need an expanded writeup (or at least a rewrite) or no?
edited 21st Oct '17 12:48:31 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Yeah, Agree with you right there. Would love to read the manga of Sailor Moon to see why Manga!Tomoe qualifies and why those redeeming features doesn't hold a candle.....I mean, Implanting an egg on your own daughter is like Shou Tucker level of bad.....However, what makes me very wary about him qualifying are, like i said, those potential mitigating factors and other heinous deeds he had done. Instead, we only know that he has a god complex and his anime features are different than his manga counterpart and put a conclusion that he's Pure Evil and that's it.....
edited 21st Oct '17 12:57:33 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."@43110: Mayhaps the Ravok should test his newfound abilities....
- Boy oh boy, how bad is that Shira, huh? Definitely one of the worst villains I've ever seen!
- So glad I got Norman Osborne up a couple months back, that guy was a real prick! Same for Tesler and Pavel!
- Hey, anyone here read that 20th Century Boys? Horrific villain in Friend, I'll tell you what.
- Yooooo, how about that Niska! Age certainly didn't temper his villainy!
- Anyone noticed my profile pic? It's of Bill Cipher. Vile dude. Hated his guts. Wonder if he'll ever get new crimes....
- I don't know about everyone else, but that Diavolo and Ciccolata give me the willies. Need some more publicity, those guys.
Now, to wait 24 hours. If any news regarding the above happen, I will officially be a wizard, and will gladly accept applications to revive and/or speed up media projects. For a sizable fee of course.
edited 21st Oct '17 1:13:35 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Tomoe does count he doesnt give a damn about his daughter or evn mention his wife after the accident and used his child as a womb to birth an eldtrich abomination to destroy the world but I'll rewrite him as it seems to list mitigating factors that are not there and some of his other deeds should be listed. So put that in pending write-ups acw.
edited 21st Oct '17 1:29:22 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Tolik. What happens to Andrei (and why doesn't he count?)?
Oh, well then. Thanks. What happens to him?
edited 21st Oct '17 1:35:47 AM by ACW
Does tomoe forcefully implanting an egg in his daughter to birth pharaoh count as rape as I'm unsure about whether to add that to his write-up. I'll add the part about him wanting to bring pharaohs into the world to destroy it For Science! as well as experimenting on people with Body Horror and being emotionally abusive to his daughter throughout the manga.
edited 21st Oct '17 2:12:07 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@Miraculous Alrite....I would love to see your rewrite for Tomoe or maybe a proper EP could handle on him once and for all
.....Have to say that Tomoe's design is kind of attractive tho but eh......appearances are not a mitigating factor haha
@Ravok Inb4 u could test ur new profound abilites on my candidate hehe
edited 21st Oct '17 1:46:27 AM by ElfenLiedFan90
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."Yeah all sailor moon badguys male and female outside the Big Bads are hot but yeah still creeper.
Before anyone asks yes Tomoe is not the worst boss ever but he won't cry if his minions die or anything so not disqualifying.
edited 21st Oct '17 1:48:21 AM by miraculous
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."@Ravok: A wizard, you say?
...I think I could get a nice price on my own tipping off some nice old researchers to your location...
Anyways, here's Hruschov... I lied about the writeups. I'll do them after we come to a consensus on him so I can do him alongside Vlad.
Who is General Hruschov? What has he done?
The General (who I'm going to be referring to as "the General" in this post because it is a goddamned pain to spell "Hruschov" over and over) is the warden of the Kravavi Prison, a complete shithole of a prison in Russia. The General is a proud sadist of a man who allows rampant corruption among his guards... giving them free rein to abuse, torture, and occasionally even murder the prisoners at their own will whilst having any and all would-be escapees either detained and horribly punished or outright shot and killed. The General introduces himself bringing back one of these escapees — horribly tortured under his order and a crying, bloodied heap when he's brought to Kyle upon his first day in the prison.
Now, countless prisoners have already died from the horrendous maltreatment they experience within Kravavi's walls — enough that resident prisoner 451 has an entire list of them hidden within the walls of his cell he eventually intends to release to the outside world — but the General's true claim to fame is what he calls the "Sparka." Inviting equally corrupt buddies of his, the General routinely hosts brutal fights between the prisoners and watches over the spectacle while betting with his associates, always with a giant smile on his face... the losers more often than not beaten to death by the winner, something that happens often enough that bodies are regularly taken out of the prison and dumped en masse in holes to be buried. The General takes a shining to Kyle when he demonstrates proficiency in the Sparka after he's made to fight, but Kyle isn't content to fight for long. After becoming a savage beast and killing many of the other prisoners in the General's blood sport, Kyle refuses to fight a new transfer. The General doesn't take this well and orders Kyle taken outside and tied to a pole to be left exposed to the elements as punishment, opting not to kill him there solely for the purpose of not making him a martyr to the other prisoners.
With the plan to break Kyle's mystique in front of the other prisoners, the General introduces Kyle to his prize fighter... a hulking, screaming brute of a man named Miloc kept in a constant state of pain by the General. The General intends to have Kyle beaten to death by Miloc as a warning to the other prisoners. This doesn't go so well, though... Kyle manages to ease Miloc's nerve and Miloc ultimately turns on the General and his guards, spurring the rest of the prisoners to pull a full-on revolt. The General, at the edge of his patience, opts to have his guards chew through their ranks with machine gun fire before detaining and keeping all the survivors in lockdown. Now intending on killing Kyle, Kyle allows himself to be set up for one more fight by the General, after which Hruschov intends to have Kyle taken out of the prison and executed. Kyle manages to slip out of the guards' grasp and escapes beneath the notice of the General with the paper full of his victims given to him by 451 to close the Kravavi for good. On that note, the last we see of the General is him being cornered by a vengeful 451 in his own office, backed up against the wall in complete terror as 451 pulls out a pair of bolt cutters...
Any mitigating factors?
Zilch and zero. Hruschov has no redeeming moments that are anything but an extension of either a hollow mask of charisma he puts up to visitors to the jail and his friends or cold-blooded pragmatism intended to break rebels to his system rather than simply murdering them outright. He's more hands-off than Tolik, but all of the Kraviva's corruption and death goes right back to him. The General enables all of Tolik's — and the other guards' — cruelty, whilst making a regular practice of bloody death games and routine torture for no other reason than profit and to jolly off of hurting people lower than him.
Conclusion?
I'd say keep. Another evil warden from Ringo Lam on my end too... the first, of course, being Kung. As for what happens to Andrei, ACW? Van Damme tears out his jugular.
With his teeth.
Thoughts?
edited 21st Oct '17 2:00:49 AM by Scraggle

I don't see the point. The Major and Zorin count in both the manga and OVA of Hellsing yet their write ups don't list the works and they really don't need to.
Only time I'd say anything is warranted is when they do different things... a la Pennywise, in which case a separate EP and write up would be needed or one version counts and another doesn't... a la Father, whose entry notes it.
edited 20th Oct '17 10:45:36 PM by 43110