Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

No. I'm not a mod.

OK, here we go:

Blue Eyes from Ship Breaker: If it's mostly offscreen and she's surpassed by someone else besides, cut. We've all made a mistake or twelve trying to get a handle on the trope anyway.

Bionicle examples: Yeesh, that looks like a convoluted show... That said, for Pridax I'd apply the comparative capacity scale to measure if he fits. Is he of similar rank/power/intelligence as Teridax? If yes, then he doesn't fit. If no, is his evil output as strong as it could be? If no, then he doesn't fit. Tuyet (all 3) is an easy cut; not nearly heinous enough.

Movie!Moriarty writeup: Looking good.

(MORE TO COME LATER)

Pridak is a Sociopathic Warlord, and he does fill out his death and destruction to the best he could hope for (as his reputation), unfortunately, most of it takes place offscreen, so that reputation is questionable, and he doesn't match up.

As for similiar Rank/Power/Intelligence: He's intelligent, but Teridax out-gambitted "everyone," He's not nearly as powerful (Teridax and his species have like 42+ different powers), and he leads his own faction, or did, then he lead an army of sharks, then the Good-guys sprang him from Jail to use against Teridax's armies as sort of an Evil vs. Evil. Teridax still outshines him.

edited 5th Mar '13 2:00:54 PM by DrPsyche

FYI, I cut all regular Hulk monster examples from YMMV. If someone wants to add one, feel free. Only step left I guess (after Strucker) is reviewing all the comic monsters and making sure it's good, then request a lock? Good job everyone (Lighty, especially you. You're the comics expert Ambar, good job too).

Dear lord, Superboy Prime is worse than Yakone in that the arguments have got to stop. In my opinion, he's more disqualified than Yakone too.

Also someone please take Plankton off the Definitively Not List, he's a Inefficient Sympathetic Villain and even if he became a Not-So-Harmless Villain in The Movie, he still isn't as bad as the other two. That and only one person offered

Miss Minchin: Yeah, I think we talked about her before. Agree with cut.

Y'golonac: I'll have to brush up my more obscure Cthulhu Mythos knowledge — Though it seems that there's another amateur Mythos scholar here currently (Hiya, JHM!).

Tales series rewrites: Looking good, but a few writing mistakes here and there (granted, I'm not very familiar with the series yet, so some of it may be due to similar names or cases of Spell My Name With An S).

Old Man Logan!Hulk: Oooh yeah, that bastard. I'll have to reread them, but just from the top of my head: the US has been divided among supervillains, and the West Coast is now "Hulkland" (it was Abomination's turf at first, but Hulk killed him to take his place). Hulk/Bruce (who's only got one personality between his alter-egos, so no Split Personality cop-out) rules the place in large part thanks to the help of the Hulk Gang, basically a very large family of his descendants who all pretty much are Corrupt Hick assholes of the highest order. How did he (pro)create the first-generation members of the Hulk gang? By repeatedly raping his cousin Jennifer, forcibly making her into a baby factory. Though there is the problem of us not seeing the act or its results first-hand (it's implied Jennifer died some time ago, likely from either the stress of being raped by the Hulk and carrying his inbred offspring to term so many times, or from suicide), as it's all told to Logan (and us) by Banner himself. Don't remember if the rest of his acts are heinous enough (he does eat Logan alive, but... well... I don't think I need to tell you guys how this version of the Hulk dies, now do I?).

Voldemort: Agree with Hodor, Lighty and JHM on this one. Besides, it opens up a bunch of other questions, like if a child by Love Potion automatically becomes a sociopath, what happens to a child conceived in even worse magical conditions? Like a dark wizard sadist who uses both the imperius and cruciatus curses at the same time to rape women who are in agonising pain and can't do anything to defend themselves (sometimes I wonder what the hell is wrong with me to always make me think up even worse stuff)?

The People Under The Stairs writeups: Good, but they could use a bit of a cleanup.

@ Idisagree : Well, general consensus about Superboy Prime disagrees with you, and even those who agree with you that he's not a CM will very likely disagree with you comparing him favorably to (i.e. saying he's even less CM material than) Yakone. We can all agree in any case that if your post is the extent of your case, you won't convince anyone. As for the Definitely Not list, correct me if I'm wrong, you want us to remove Plankton from it because he's not as evil as the other two? Not only does that make no sense at all, I think everybody else here will agree that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL ANY SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS CHARACTER BE REMOVED FROM THE "NEVER AGAIN" LIST. EVER. PERIOD.

edited 5th Mar '13 7:12:15 PM by Paireon

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there regarding Plankton. At all.

As for Superboy-Prime—I can respect that you don't think he counts. But how in the hell is he less heinous than Yakone, a character from a kids show, who hasn't killed anybody? Yakone's worst crime is being a terrible parent. Superboy-Prime killed entire worlds, beat Superboy and Kal-L to death, and slaughtered his own girlfriend for breaking up with him. If you don't think that's CM material, okay. If you don't think that's worse than what Yakone did, I'm not sure where you're coming from.

I think @9555 referring to this part of the Spongebob "never again" entry:

As if including Plankton after the "even" made it supposedly seem like he was actually a specifically heinous character. Thing is, people actually have listed Plankton as a CM several times, so specifically mentioning that he is off-limits is important.

And from Western Animation:

• Batman The Brave And The Bold:
  • Starro's faceless henchman definitely counts. At first we think he was forced into working with Starro because he threatened to destroy him and his entire race. But actually, he willingly joined Starro because he was a warmonger who hated the peacefulness of his home planet, even helping to finish the job. himself. And that's not just going into what he did to B'wana Beast
  • He hasn't got a patch on the Psycho Pirate, whose plot involves the Mind Rape of three innocent (if superpowered) teenagers.

Okay, these are terrible examples. Detail is missing. Just looking at them, it appears the Psycho Pirate fails the heinous standard compared to Starro's dragon. I'm also not sure anybody from that show can count given the amount it owes to the Silver Age.

And oh, good god, the ones on the YMMV tab are worse written.

• Complete Monster:
  • The Faceless Hunter. His entire reason for joining Starro is because he hated his home-world's peaceful lifestyle and enjoys Hunting the Most Dangerous Game. But what pushes him into this is after Starro is killed by Earth's heroes, he kidnaps B'wana Beast and uses him to make something worse than Starro with every intention of doing so because he likes causing planet-wide destruction and death.
  • The Psycho Pirate. The guy traps people in their worse nightmares and feeds off the rage of children. He's so evil, Batman is openly furious at him!

Would somebody please, for the love of god, tell me what he forced B'wana Beast to do? Because both examples are vague as hell. And jeez, if you think Batman being "Openly furious" at somebody qualifies them, you are an idiot.

Sidenote—what was the vote on the Captain Planet examples? Because we never made any cuts.

EDIT:

Also from the Western Animation page:

• Thrax from Osmosis Jones, considering the fact he really wants to kill Frank so that he'll be known to the medical books. Oh, and did I forgot to mention that he really did other kills before getting to him? That is one irredeemable virus. If that's not enough, at the very end, he brags to Osmosis that he's going to beat his record by killing Frank's daughter Shanie even faster.

Okay, Thrax is creepy as hell, I'll grant that. And his murder of a couple of white blood cells and plans for Frank are genuinely frightening. That said—the entry sucks, and lists offscreen villainy, and secondly he's a virus. That's what they do.

EDIT: The All Dogs Go To Heaven examples need serious rewrites. I don't know if either of them counts, but lord they are badly written.

• All Dogs Go to Heaven series.
  • Red from All Dogs Go To Heaven 2. He manipulates Charlie into giving him Gabriel's Horn, he has Carface kidnap David (an eight-year-old boy!) to force Charlie to hand the horn over directly, tries to kill Charlie and all the other protagonists. And his ultimate goal? Use Gabriel's Horn to suck every dog out of Heaven and trap them in Alcatraz Island. Then drag the whole island with all the dogs in it down to Hell for all eternity! All of it just for the sake of being evil! What's worse? Remember what Carface was like in the original film? Red considers that small time compared to him!
  • Belladonna from the TV series counts as well. In all but one of her appearances, she tries to get Charlie to work for her through temptation and manipulation. When Itchy tried to get Charlie to turn back after he actually fell for her tricks once, she tried to send him into a meat grinder! Worse than that, she tried to force Charlie to be the one to do it! When her minions Carface and Killer were stuck in an Alternate Dimension inside a board game, she didn't give a crap, which she caused! And that one time Belladonna wasn't after Charlie? She wanted to ruin thousands of people's lives and probably indirectly send just as many dogs to the pound by sabotaging Christmas through said dogs, which she was probably counting on (the sadistic glee she displays while doing all of this makes it worse then it sounds)! And she tries to kill Carface and Killer in her One-Winged Angel form after their Heel Face Turn. And if it weren't for said Heel Face Turn, then her actions would have condeemed Carface to Hell. And like Red before her, Belladonna did all of the above mentioned things simply because she could! Well, that and get one over on her "goodie goodie cousin" Annabelle.

Belladonna's actions in the last example would have directly lead to the death of the Tiny Tim analog, something that she may have actually known, given her supernatural nature. Also the younger residents of Heaven know her as "the Boogeydog", makes you wonder what she did to earn that moniker!

Am I supposed to see any of that as heinous? Because I don't.

edited 5th Mar '13 8:24:43 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

While Thrax might be a Virus...the thing is, Thrax isn't content with just being a virus. He wants to be THE Virus. He's a psycho murderer who kills not because it's his nature but because he likes it and wants a spot in history books.

Of the examples posted above, Thrax is the one I'm least worried about keeping. If you can remember the list of things he actually did, I'm more or less okay with keeping him.

The YMMV page for All Dogs Go to Heaven also needs a rewrite:

• Complete Monster: Red if you think about it. In the first film, Carface was a murderous crime lord who'd kill anyone who got in his way with no remorse and was willing to kill a child. Since the first movie is technically still canon, Carface's deeds are and Red treats him like a small time thug instead of a crime lord, showing just how bad Red is compared to Carface. His ultimate plan was to suck all the dogs out of Heaven and then drag them to Hell, and the only reason he gives for it is "It Feels So Good To Be Bad". All his deeds aren't for personal gain like Carface's, they were for a sheer love of evil.
  • Belladonna most likely counts too.

Those are bad.

Just went over the Marvel page. Still needs work. I've removed Cyber and fixed some grammer etc in the new entry for Obadiah Stane. There are others that need to go.

edited 5th Mar '13 8:53:48 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Which others do we need to toss?

Happy Gilmore

• Ben Stiller's character.

No context

My Bloody Valentine 3D

• Harry Warden. In the original, his actions made sense, as he only killed the two men he blamed for the cave-in. In the remake however, he is shown to be a cruel bully who taunts Tom right before the explosion, then murders his fellow trapped miners simply for the selfish notion that by killing them, HE won't have to worry about them using up the oxygen in the caved in tunnel. Oh, and murdering and dismembering an entire hospital full of people after he wakes up.

Never seen it. Any thoughts?

Rufus T. from Skippy Shorts is listed but it's too comical.

The Haunting (1999)

• Complete Monster: Hugh Crain, child-killer extraordinaire, though Nell does say at one point after she's connected to the house and its ghosts that Crain "just wanted children, but it all went wrong", implying he wasn't always so. The short version of his crimes: wanting a family, he abducted children from his mills, and when they tried to leave his house he murdered them, mutilated their bodies, and burned them in a fireplace (then covered this up in his records by merely claiming they'd died of illness or factory injuries). He also drove his first wife to suicide and (it's strongly implied) murdered his second for discovering his secret. After his death he comes back as an all-powerful ghost who keeps the spirits of the children trapped in the house. The original book and film also portray him as rather cruel to his daughter, but they don't give enough details on him to really make a call on this front.

Ugh... I hate that awful remake... nevertheless, I should still bring up the example.

Felix the Cat: The Movie The Duke of Zill, although his power mostly comes from his army of cylinders.

Felix the Cat. Do I even have to comment?

There were a number of these that were discussed but never concluded on. Going down the page...

For Spider Man: Carl King. Don't recall the decision there.

For the X-Men: Zander Rice, Fabian Cortez, Johnston Coffin, various Ultimate Universe baddies. All discussed, can't remember what decisions were made.

For others: Dormammu's entry says nothing about the crimes he's committed onscreen, just his goals. The Red King was discussed, can't recall the decision.

A Ben Stiller character from Happy Gilmore? Burn it.

edited 5th Mar '13 9:01:32 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

There weren't really consensuses on any of them. I'd definitely keep Coffin though; as a personal note, I'm the one who added him, and I did so because he was the first fictional villain in any medium I've ever encountered to actually make me feel physically ill with his crimes. There's been a couple since then, but the number's still countable on one hand.

Red King was a keep; he even got a rewrite.

edited 5th Mar '13 9:11:13 PM by HamburgerTime

All of them were keeps, except maybe the Ultimates I recall.

We do need to rewrite Dormammu...he was voted as a keep but expand

IIRC Rice was also a keep but rewrite to remove the sentence about his death.

Happy Gilmore: Cut.

My Bloody Valentine 3D: IIRC, not really heinous enough. Somewhat of a standard horror movie villain (I saw it in theaters, so it's been awhile).

edited 5th Mar '13 9:18:48 PM by ACW

I could swear we agreed to cut some of those. I think Ultimate John Wraith and Ultimate Deadpool and Mojo were definite cuts.

Hugh Crain soudns like a keeper/

Those Ultimate guys? Yes, you were right. Cut 'em

edited 5th Mar '13 9:18:59 PM by Lightysnake

Oh, and people, a request: If you cut from CM, PLEASE also cut from the corresponding YMMV.

Agreed

I still agree to keep Superboy-Prime, and maybe he should be taken into the first page along with Bellatrix, as a *definite keep*. But he should also get a rewrite. Most important is to mention that his supposed redemption in Blackest Night didn't work.