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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#95676: Sep 29th 2017 at 7:58:21 PM

Yes to images save the first one which is too small.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#95677: Sep 29th 2017 at 8:01:32 PM

Strange. It wasn't that small when I clicked it at first.

And how could I forget Reverend Harry Powell? Another personal favorite, from The Night of the Hunter. Or maybe this one is better. Only issue I have with that one is the MGM logo in the corner.

edited 29th Sep '17 8:32:54 PM by Stellarvore

zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
#95678: Sep 29th 2017 at 10:12:59 PM

I...really wish I had a character I could propose I'm bored.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#95679: Sep 29th 2017 at 10:14:08 PM

@Stellarvore For Nix the Puritan.....Have watched the Film And I'll say him torturing Harry could match nicely with CM trope

[up] If you want to help me regarding new candidates, Wanna do a collab for Geek Love novel?

edited 29th Sep '17 10:15:39 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
zcooper95 Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And here's to you, Mrs. Robinson
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#95681: Sep 29th 2017 at 11:20:59 PM

Gonna sound like a broken record, but I'm gonna ask about the Twin Peaks examples again.

Judy who received a couple of [tdown] On account of her being a GDV with limited onscreen actions and possible moral hang ups

Richard. Also a couple of [tdown] because he fails the heinous standard.

Doppleganger. Trickier example 4 [tdown] 5 [tup]. Major issue is whether or not the Doppleganger has moral agency or is just a being born of evil.

BOB. Reopened BOB's case with some new info, that being he might have agency issues as he's just a black orb of evil created by Judy, others felt that inspite of his birth he has complete human agency. Even if he's kept, he needs a rewrite. 3 [tup] 1 [tdown]

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#95682: Sep 30th 2017 at 12:14:50 AM

@zcooper95 It's a story about a Freak Family called the Binewskis and it was told in a perspective of Olympia Binewski, An albino daughter of Circus ringmasters Aloysius and Crystal Lil Binewski. I've been looking forward to the certain candidate due to one character got a writeup but that writeup got axed mostly due to being unapproved by this thread.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#95683: Sep 30th 2017 at 2:53:43 AM

New proposal, from Innocent Blood.

Who's the candidate?

Sal "the Shark" Marcelli, a Mafia boss in Pittsburgh.

What does he do?

We first see Sal interrogating a smuggler employee of his over some skimmed off inventory. Despite the man's protests of innocence, Sal tries to kill him by bashing his head in with a toaster oven, but is stopped by undercover cop Joseph Gennaro masquerading as a goon, who appeals to his sense of discretion and Pragmatic Villainy. Sal tries to get Gennaro to shoot the smuggler, and guns the latter down himself when he refuses.

The next night, Sal meets Marie a Friendly Neighborhood Vampire who's decided to go after the Mob. She seduces him into taking her home, but tries to leave after having an averse reaction to garlic. Sal doesn't buy her excuses, and tries to force himself on her. She takes this opportunity to drain him, but is forced to flee before she can do her standard operating procedure of blowing his head off with a shotgun.

Wanna guess where this leads? Yep, Sal's a vampire. After he wakes up and gets home, it takes him a while to actually figure out his vampirism. The second he does, however, he turns his lawyer Manny. He then tries to rape Manny's wife, but she stabs him and escaoes.

Having recently captured Gennaro, Sal decides to have fun killing him. How does he do this? crush him in a trash compactor until he's "blood and screams." Luckily, Marie stops him. Unluckily, he escapes.

Sal lays low by sleeping in a meat locker in one of his front businesses. When he wakes up, he has Lenny call his other top lieutenants, shooting him in the foot when he protests. The second the other two come in, Sal feeds on Lenny and orders him placed in a trunk. He then has them drive to a strip club, where he has them open the trunk to prove that Lenny's alive.

At the strip club, Sal and Lenny turn the other two lieutenants as prelude to the Shark's ultimate scheme. The scheme: Use the four's vampiric abilities to dominate the Pittsburgh crime scene! At that time, one of the other mob bosses arrives with his bodyguard and Sal has them turned. He plans to turn the other two big bosses as well.

Soon after, a couple of cops show up, and are captured by the vamps. One is killed, and the other Bound and Gagged awaiting death. Marie and Gennaro rescue the survivor, killing two of the vamps in the process. Our heroes then confront the rest of the vamps, killing them all and burning Sal alive.

Except no. Sal just walks out, not affected by the flames at all. However, Gennaro blows his brains out without blinking.

Heinousness?

Big Bad, sets it.

Mitigating factors?

Nope. No sympathetic traits, and vamps have full agency. Sal was a psycho before his turning, and one of the heroes is his sire.

Film's a horror comedy, but strongly leans towards horror. Likewise, Sal's crimes are played straight.

Verdict?

[tup], and a very high recommendation.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#95684: Sep 30th 2017 at 3:38:53 AM

For the small image, just delete everything after png.

As for Haman, as a Jew, let me say: Trying to kill all the Jews? Same as the original. Constantly manipulating wars, having the King's wife killed, having all the Jewish virgins kidnapped? I'm...pretty sure that's new. Yes to him,

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#95685: Sep 30th 2017 at 4:26:59 AM

[tup] to Haman

I'm unsure about Sal. So he turns his lieutenants into vampires - against their wills - and suddenly they’re ok with it? A bit of a stretch, but I still can buy it. But then he turns one of the other mob bosses. Why? Does he expect that the guy will now serve him? If yes, that would imply that at least some vampires don’t have full agency. If not, he just turned an ordinary mob boss into a potential rival.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#95686: Sep 30th 2017 at 4:55:31 AM

By the way, will Pennywise be added with tomorrow's batch? Because I never seen him in drafts.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#95687: Sep 30th 2017 at 5:02:57 AM

Yeah, that's with this week's batch.

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#95688: Sep 30th 2017 at 7:24:01 AM

@ElfenLiedFan90 Couldn't find that one. Truth be told, I haven't seen the movie in a long time.

edited 30th Sep '17 8:04:22 AM by Stellarvore

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#95689: Sep 30th 2017 at 8:10:26 AM

I see. Maybe I could rewatch Lord of Illusions and I could find it again though. Although I don't have an Imgur account so that's something.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#95690: Sep 30th 2017 at 8:16:38 AM

No to Sal.

Not heinous enough for the baseline. He kills a few people, tries to kill the heroes and turns his people into vampires, which they find they like?

No.

edited 30th Sep '17 8:17:26 AM by Lightysnake

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#95691: Sep 30th 2017 at 8:29:53 AM

Unsure on Sal, and I've seen that movie before.

Yes to Abdiel.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#95692: Sep 30th 2017 at 8:53:11 AM

[tdown] Sal. Just being a Big Bad doesn't always set the baseline standard Phantom.

edited 30th Sep '17 8:53:40 AM by ReynTime250

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#95693: Sep 30th 2017 at 9:14:02 AM

Yeah, Sal seems pretty standard to me. [tdown] to him.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#95694: Sep 30th 2017 at 10:57:40 AM

Alrighty, a candidate...

What's The Work?

From the Stephen King collection, Just After Sunset, we have the short story The Gingerbread Girl...the story involves a young mother, Emily, who takes up running and exercising regularly as a way to cope with the grief of the crib death of her daughter Amy. She and her husband separate and Emily takes up residence at her father's summer home in the Florida Keys, namely Vermilion Key which is mostly devoid of tourists. Her father's friend Deke informs her of a man who lives nearby named Jim Pickering who regularly brings 'nieces' home, and warns Emily he's 'not a nice man.'

...this is proven even more true when Emily runs by Pickering's home and sees his car with a dead woman in the trunk.

Who is Jim Pickering And What Has HE Done?

You might have surmised. All those 'nieces' he brings back regularly are victims that Pickering lures home, then rapes and murders. The woman in the trunk is the latest victim. Unfortunately, Pickering is close by and bashes Emily in the skull before she wakes up, tied to a chair by duct tape, while Pickering interrogates her. Pickering presses her to know who's there and manages to get Deke Hollis's name via threatening torture. Pickering, to hurt Emily more, leaves her to stew in anticipation of what awaits her while he heads to murder Hollis, making it clear he's going to rape and kill Emily as well.

Thanks to her running, though, Emily's legs have grown very powerful. She manages to splinter the tape and pull herself up, arduously bashing the chair until it splinters and manages to free herself from the rest as Pickering returns. Emily manages to fight him off and escape. Pickering pursues her down the beach, Emily's running training keeping her well ahead until she encounters a young Latino man who doesn't speak English while Pickering, unlike Emily speaks Spanish. The guy, however, realizes that Emily's panic clearly means something is amiss and he tries to protect her, only for Pickering to brutally mutilate him to death with a pair of scissors. Emily, tiring, wades into the ocean with Pickering after her. Pickering...soon flounders as he follows her and Emily realizes he can't swim. With that realization, she grabs him when he panics and drags him further out before shoving him into an oncoming wave and into a current.She makes it back to shore, watching as Pickering goes out further until he drowns with the possibility a shark pulled him under, before she limps back to report what happened.

Heinous standard?

He's a rather nasty serial killer with multiple deaths in the story and a lot of others with a clear pattern of behavior. I'm not sure how we place little standalones in the Kingverse, but I'd consider him as bad as completely human villains like Norman Daniels with less time to show off. He's also the only villain in the story, so no competition from others.

Mitigating Qualities?

Not a one and we get a lot of glimpses into his charming personality. He's virulently racist, misogynist and a sadistic psychopath who's furious when Emily resists being raped and murdered by him. No redeeming qualities whatsoever to speak of.

Conclusion?

I'd say yes. Like the Reaper in Mess Hall, we see more than enough for that pattern and he's got a surprisingly high body count for a short story, with a nasty MO

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#95695: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:10:52 AM

Yeah, I'll give Pickering a [tup]. Seems like there's just enough to establish a pattern.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#95697: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:33:14 AM

[tup]Pickering. Good god.

Any other opinions for rewrites for Dr. Wren and Captain Love?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#95698: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:36:52 AM

[tup] Pickering

As for Sal, he seems to have some level of control over vamps he turns (except Manny, who dies via sunlight a couple hours after being turned having seen Sal in the meantime). However, it's not made 100% clear.

@Reyn: Sal does set the heinous standard for the work.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#95699: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:38:05 AM

Even then...turning people isn't really a uniquely heinous act here, particularly when the heroine is a vampire who regularly murders gangsters to eat

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#95700: Sep 30th 2017 at 11:43:24 AM

Depends. In the original Dracula, vampirism was a metaphor for rape.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills

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