During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I've found that ordering murders is a tricky thing. They can go either way.
edited 29th Sep '17 10:24:16 AM by k410ren
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and killsAnyone count from any of these?
- Ys: Lacrimosa of Dana (Ravok/Scraggle)
- mother! (2017)
- Dishonored: Death of the Outsider (NTG)
- Metroid: Samus Returns
edited 29th Sep '17 10:35:06 AM by ACW
![]()
Come on ACW, Death of the Outsider was just answered last page. Regardless, it is apparently meant to be the finale to the Dishonored franchise. It looks like the Dishonored franchise has officially managed to scrape by with no candidates.
Abdiel seems to be primarily upvoted, so that's cool. Honestly, he's definitely one of my favorite proposals/candidates in recent memory. He's not some cackling madman or cold-blooded killer throughout it, he starts out with the rather understandable motive of survival. But, between his cowardice, ego, and ultimately petty traits, he slowly falls into evil until finally, he's organizing the very event that he's terrified will kill him just to spite his pursuers. Great example of a complex, three-dimensional CM.
Hrrrmmm...I think I can say 'Yes' to Turner. It sounds like enough is onscreen.
As for the latest Ys game? No one counts, for a simple reason: There's no VILLAIN. I mean, there's a REALLY minor Arc Villain dude, but besides him? Everything in the game is a problem caused by nature, not a person. Heck, the "final boss" is some Space Flea from Nowhere, so yeah, no one counts, and nothing has come up to disqualify any currently listed baddies, either.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Oh yeah, it is Friday already.
Saw mother! early last week, and I would say there are no qualifiers. It's arguably too weird to properly quantify, but taking everything that happens at face value, all of the people who show up near the end probably jack up the heinous standard too much. Plus, while Javier Bardem's character is extremely self-centered and enables a lot of horrible things, he shows at least a bit of regret. (Yes, maybe I'm being too vague. I do recommend that you check it out if you have a strong stomach.)
Also, not sure why I didn't think to mention this when he was written up, but I think Vassago's book entry should say something about how he started off his crimes as a child by murdering his supposed best friend and making it look like an accident (at the same amusement park where he later, ahem, hides away, BTW- he followed up by starting a haunted house fire that killed more people, and the events of that night ended up driving the park out of business). I know, we don't need to list everything, but for some reason it horrified me the most when I read it, and it's currently a pretty short entry.
edited 29th Sep '17 11:06:21 AM by YamiVizziniX
There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.Oh, and catch up:
i'll give a yes to Abdiel
@ Morningstar: Cut that on the Oz Effect...it's still ongoing if nothing else and wasn't vetted here.
@ Mah Stache: No, that isn't disqualifying for Envy. Looking shocked for an instant there? Nah.
@ Duck: No offense, but...I think you're overselling. Does Turner order the rape or just give general "go do as thou wilt but mess 'em up?" HUGE difference.
@ Real Jackie Boy: eh, go for the proposal. If things change, let us know.
And then there was that one scene that happened in the film. Yeah...I agree that no one counts there, and that it's too much of a Mind Screw. Which I actively avoided watching.
edited 29th Sep '17 11:09:33 AM by AustinDR
Candidate time.
What's the Work?
Ghost Hunt is an anime concerning Mai Taniyama, a highschool girl with psychic abilities who becomes involved with the shibuya Psychic Research institute, or SPR, which investigates the paranormal. Along with the team in SPR, they proceed to look into reports of ghosts to help lay them to rest.
In the second to last arc in the anime, the Bloodstained Labyrinth, one of SPR's managers' old acquaintances requests they look into a series of disappearances at one of his properties....the team arrives with others investigators there, and during a seance, things get bad, with Mai learning the name "Urado"...
Who is Urado?
Born Kaneyuki Miyama, 'Urado' was a wealthy, but sickly man who was unsatisfied with life. Traveling all over the world, Miyama returned to Japan and gave himself the name 'Urado'...translating the name 'Vlad' after 'The Impaler' due to his fascination with vampires. Convinced that blood could prolong his life, Urado recruited two staff members to assist him aand began abducting members of his staff, or people who stayed nearby, murdering them by slitting their throats and draining them of blood to bathe in regularly, just like Elizabeth Bathory. Urado eventually died and his son scrubbed the place clean to bury the grim reputation...
Except Urado got even worse in death. As a ghost, he continues to use his powers to abduct those in the the household, transporting them to his old kill room where they're murdered and drained of blood so he can continue his habits. We get a terrifying glimpse into this when during the seance, Mai experiences the last moments of one of the victims. Several of the other investigators off the other team are abducted and vanished and by the conclusion of the arc, their throats have been slit as well. Urado attempts to murder the team, but is driven off by Naru and the others. Realizing his spirit is too bound to the place to properly exorcise, they burn the property to the ground, sending Urado's spirit off to its just desserts...before the end, though, we see he kept his victims' bones as trophies: a massive wall with rows upon rows of carefully organizes bones.
Redeeming Qualities?
No. He's never shown caring for his son or allies, and his belief is "I don't want to die" even after a full life and becoming a ghost. He also enjoys killing others, so...no dice here.
Heinous Standard?
A huge bodycount. We see that Urado has killed dozens, abducting and murdering them from his own staff or those who wandered by. The series isn't even that dark with tons of lighthearted moments and comedy, so he really sticks out. The few other villainous spirits don't even come close here.
Conclusion?
I'd say yea
@ Lore Deluxe: Death of the Outsider would be a good way to end the franchise, but it still leaves a door open for future sequels. I don’t think Arcane has any plans for a Dishonored 3 right now, however, that may change in a few years.
So yeah, no CM in the Dishonored franchise so far. The most likely candidate would’ve been the Lord Regent with his Kill the Poor plan, alas his love for Lady Boyle disqualified him. That said, nothing is set in stone. Maybe in a few months/ years someone will make a very convincing EP for a Dishonored character that makes everybody approve with him?
LD: Whoops
No ENEMY in a Ys game? Huh.
Vassago: Are the adaptations different enough that 2 entries are okay?
Urado. Am I missing somethign though? He's a ghost; what life is there to extend? Unless he continues killing for fun, which only confirms my
.
Speaking of anime and manga ghosts (okay, that was a Lame Segue, which really should be a trope), anything to report for Tokyo Ghost?
Urado sounds like a
.
Anyone want to chime in on Coldsteel from Gargoyles? Dude was added without a proposal, and he doesn't even come close to the heinous standard.
Yeah I've already cut his entry from the Gargoyles page I believe Coldsteel is a perfect example of a Hate Sink (a hated character with no redeeming qualities) who doesn't qualify as a CM (doesn't meet the heinous standard)
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff

I've been here the whole time, Reyn. Still doing the EP if we come to it.
edited 29th Sep '17 10:01:24 AM by Scraggle