TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#94651: Sep 14th 2017 at 4:26:07 PM

As an enormous fan of Chrono Trigger and someone who's played Chrono Cross, I would also tend to agree with the consensus that nobody from either game really counts.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#94652: Sep 14th 2017 at 4:26:44 PM

[tup]Magellan, Baron Ironblood, Ruechang, Culley, and Molech.

[tdown]Mother Brain

edited 14th Sep '17 6:00:54 PM by VeryMelon

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#94653: Sep 14th 2017 at 5:05:23 PM

[tup] Cobra Commander, General Ruechang, Culley, Magellan

[tdown] Mother Brain

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94654: Sep 14th 2017 at 5:48:40 PM

But what about Spekio?

Glad to see people are agreeing with me on the Chrono series discussion. It makes me feel special.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#94655: Sep 14th 2017 at 6:49:40 PM

Read that Magical Girl Apocalypse is getting an anime version next year. Given that I'm working on the manga, I'm going to reserve discussion on that as well.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#94656: Sep 14th 2017 at 9:25:12 PM

[tup] To Tai, Stern, Irving, the Souls duo, Baron Ironblood, General Ruechang, Magellan, Molech and Iain Culley.

[tdown] To Mother Brain, Megabug and Tamishiro.

I will agree that no one in Chrono Trigger counts.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#94657: Sep 15th 2017 at 3:42:55 AM

What about this other entry I got for the video game section? Emperor Doviculus of Brutal Legend

What is the Work?

Brutal Legends a heavy metal-themed Hack and Slash/Real-Time Strategy with light elements of driving and Rhythm Games, developed by Double Fine and published by Electronic Arts on Rocktober 16, 2009 for the Play Station 3 and Xbox 360 consoles

The story is pretty simple. Your average/The Ultimate roadie for your average Second Wave of American Tween Melodic Rap Metalcore band is transported to the Land of Metal, where he must teach humanity the ways of true metal to free us from enslavement by the demons of the Tainted Coil. For literally all intents and purposes, it's a story that is neoclassical metal wish fulfillment, backed up by one hell of a soundtrack that encompasses pretty much all forms of metal.

Who he is and what does he do?

Emperor Doviculus is the demon king of the Tainted Coil and the Big Bad of Brutal Legend. The Tainted Coil is a race of S&M covered demons themed around Industrial Metal, they enslaved humanity before the events of the single player campaign and most of the soldiers in this anarchic army are creations of Emperor Doviculus who is more then willing to send them to there death. He doesn't care one bit of their well-being since he is a firm believer of We Have Reserves and if anything goes wrong he would blame them for what happened despite him not doing anything even if he is all powerful.

What I describe above is he's character, but not his role in the story which is where things get worse. It's already been mentioned that he ruled over the Land of Metal already, and with that he enslaves the human race by placing them under the control of Lion Whyte, an Affably Evil dictator who drives many of the humans into all forms of slavery, whether it is concentration camp style labor and torture, having the women become sex slave or killing anyone planning to defy Doviculus. These acts of sadism and tyranny satisfy Doviculus who watches over these in his own kingdom.

After the protagonist Eddie Rigs defeat Lion Whyte, Doviculus personally comes down himself and enjoys the destruction that occurred to Lion Whyte's domain, and then casually kills Lion Whyte after he pleads for a second chance. When Lars, a good friend of Eddie, confronts Doviculus after he senses the group of heroes hiding nearby, Doviculus kills in the middle of the conversation showing he cares little about giving anyone a fighting chance. Then he razes the area with a meteor storm and a massive earthquake to crush the remaining forces of Lion Whyte and Eddie's group. He fails to kill Eddie, but manage to commit genocide to Lion Whyte's faction.

Then after this part, he makes a doppelganger of Ophelia, one of Eddie's friends who he left behind, into a dark and vengeful demon after she tries to drown herself in the Sea of Black Tears. This now vengeful clone of an old friend goes after Eddie, after Doviculus sends her after him with an army of horrifying and gothic style zombies. When she fails, she stabs the clone and leaves her to death before confronting the hero Eddie Rigs to a battle of the death.

Even the boss fight showed his depravity since he's main method of fighting is using disturbing and creepy moves to take down our main protagonist. Which includes torturing and killing his own children for more powerful attacks, and literally ripping his heart out to show how heartless he really is. He's also a sadomasochist which means he loves torture while being in pain as well, and is incredibly narcissistic showing how much he loves himself in the fight. While I'll admit he's not the only monster of the game (I'm considering Lion Whyte as well) he is definitely the worse since he is the source of the evil.

Heinousness?

Tortures and kills anyone who gets in his way, loves pain and suffering, willing to destroy lands and his own minions just to get one guy, and cares little for his children since he always has more to fight for him. Also, his religious cult worship him through blood sacrifices and human tributes, because he himself is please with those types of methods.

Any mitigating factors?

He loves a good fight, and does have a friendly enemy base on one conversation... but that's not because of friendship, but rather amusement for certain opponents. He is a masochist, so he loves being in pain and challenged, but that doesn't mean he likes the person doing it to him or even respects them. He's just showing certain sick pleasure and doesn't have any value to his enemy. The conversation also could be intepreted in other ways since he never really shows that he respects the person, or to anyone in the game.

He also let's people do what they want, but only if it means more chaos and screams of agonies. He's more then welcome to throw these people away the moment he's done with them.

Final Verdict:

Emperor Doviculus is a truly twisted individual. He shows the worse of the worse in metal and death songs, which I should remind you have characters that are in the Complete Monster list to. As I side note I might write up another one for Lion Whyte later on in the future.

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94658: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:04:56 AM

I remember being so annoyed since Brutal Legend seemed like an awesome action game...then became an RTS game sad

Doviculus seems like a [tup]. Another CM for Tim Curry.

TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#94659: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:18:31 AM

What other monster was Tim Curry playing?

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#94660: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:21:22 AM

[tup] Doviculus

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#94661: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:34:29 AM

[up][up] Pennywise in the 1990 mini-series of IT.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#94662: Sep 15th 2017 at 4:40:56 AM

Wait....I thought Doviculus doesn't count due to being a standard overlord villain.....Ah what the heck....Tentative [tup] to Doviculus

Sorry guys if I'm not active In this thread sad still trying to re-review a CM candidate from a novel Which would take a long time.

Also, Anyone here knew or played a game called Full Throttle?

edited 15th Sep '17 4:43:52 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#94663: Sep 15th 2017 at 5:27:02 AM

How seriously is he played? I know Brutal Legend is very tongue-in-cheek so I have issues that someone so stereotypically cliché evil overlord-y isn't being played entirely seriously.

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
TheImmortalAngelNewton The MILF Virus Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
The MILF Virus
#94665: Sep 15th 2017 at 5:46:13 AM

[up][up] How serious? He's actually taking pretty seriously since he kills off some important characters, he's genuinely disturbing and he's not being played for laughs. The tongue-and-cheek comedy mostly comes from the protagonists Eddie Riggs and the early parts of the game, when Doviculus comes in he's taking completely serious with the setting becoming darker. Also he really isn't generic since he has a Satanic-Metal theme compared other evil-overlords.

edited 15th Sep '17 5:47:31 AM by TheImmortalAngelNewton

Allow me, take my hand and never let go, promise? - Giselle
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94667: Sep 15th 2017 at 6:17:44 AM

We have Richard Hawk from Metal Wolf Chaos listed. He's probably the silliest example we have. Abstaining on Doviculus.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#94668: Sep 15th 2017 at 6:49:50 AM

Oh! And btw............Even if I have The Letter and Ruiner on my belt for discussion in the future.....I'll partake for the discussion for my favorite game of all time called Brave Frontier and it's sequel Brave Frontier 2. Given that I'm a frequent player of that game so I'll see what I can do

edited 15th Sep '17 6:57:48 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94669: Sep 15th 2017 at 7:56:02 AM

Writeups:

  • Welkin Weasels: The vicious fox Magellan is a bounty hunter feared and dreaded throughout Welkin for his murderous ways. A sadist possessed of a long list of bodies and a fondness for snares for how slowly they choke out the victim, Magellan truly came into his own upon assassinating the noble King Redfur, tossing Welkin into complete chaos and allowing Redfur's evil brother Prince Poynt to come into power and establish a brutal slave regime. Magellan takes advantage of the chaos by rallying up a band of psychopaths and rogues and launching a campaign of slaughter throughout Welkin to jolly himself, pillaging and robbing even the poorest they could find and massacring entire communities worth of innocents. Once allowed to come back into Welkin from his banishment under contract by Prince Poynt to murder the rebel outlaws Sylver and his gang, Magellan immediately returns to old ways by cruelly murdering Sylver's friend Dredless – who's brother he had killed prior during his previous rampage – and cruelly taunting Sylver about it. Reviled even by the corrupt rulers of Welkin whom he indirectly allowed to take power in the first place, Magellan is tempered by no altruistic or humorous traits in a series rife with villains with the same.

  • Bridge of Dragons: The evil General Ruechang is a man loyal only to power. Ruechang murders the good-hearted father of Princess Halo to take over his kingdom and intends on forcibly marrying Halo and fathering an heir out of her, ruthlessly abusing her throughout his tenure as ruler and likely intending on murdering her after she wears out her use to him. Viciously cracking down on any rebellion to his polluted rule, Ruechang regularly has resistance fighters slaughtered or imprisoned, cuts open the throat of one impertinent rebel after falsely promising him a fair duel, and eventually makes it a point to directly lead the charge towards the rebellion's base to massacre everyone – man, woman, and child, capable of fighting or not.

  • Mega Man (Archie): Ra Moon in a sinister AI who crash-landed on Earth centuries ago with aspirations to control. Manipulating an ancient civilization into worshiping it – and even establishing bloody ritual sacrifice in its name – Ra Moon eventually tires of its slaves and decimates the entire civilization whilst sealing itself underground. Upon returning from dormancy in the present day and being found by Dr. Wily, Ra Moon placidly provides for Wily's conquests before betraying the doctor and revealing its intention to scour the planet of both humans and robots alike, unleashing a global EMP wave and causing worldwide catastrophe. Intending on powering up its wave to boil out the brains of any humans it hasn't already killed, Ra Moon's response to resistance is to turn Wily's own creation against him and order it to start maiming Dr. Wily before murdering him, and brainwashing every Robot Master that stands against it.

  • Mega Man X: Command Mission: Among the Rebellion army, a faction of extremists and anti-villains, the Reploid Silver Horn sticks out as a sadist on a perpetual power trip lacking in any of his compatriots' redeeming qualities. Warden of the Tianna POW camp, Silver Horn viciously kills many dissenting Reploids himself during the Rebellion's takeover of Giga City, personally torturing the famed hero Steel Massimo into a limbless, barely-living heap and keeping his mangled body underneath the camp. Forcing the Navigator Reploid Nana into acting as a sysop for the camp under the threat of executing all of the POWs, Silver Horn's response when he's finally confronted is to gleefully reminisce on his torture and eventual murder of Steel Massimo to his successor and revealing his ideals that the weak only exist to serve the strong.

  • Goners: Seph, also know as the Dragon and the Lilin, is an ancient succubus yearning to possess an enchanted grimoire that would allow her to control reality itself. Possessing a member of the magical Latimer family and passing off an innocent young girl to be punished in her place, Seph mothers a half-demon, half-human through Raleigh Latimer before having both the parents killed thirteen years later. Seph orchestrates a complete purge of the Latimer bloodline and has every member of the family and everyone connected to them murdered – in one case having a birthday party hosted to the otherwise-normal Gail slaughtered down to the children and having their corpses morbidly posed to greet Gail – and eventually rises her minions to start completely massacring their way through King's Bluff to get at her son Josiah, leading to hundreds of casualties. Once Seph finally reaches the boy, Seph turns him into a demon she christens Ammon before trying to have him slaughter his own sister as a passage of anointment.

  • Chuck Norris Karate Kommandos: The Claw is the leader of VULTURE, a cabinet of terrorists willing to wreak vast destruction under the Claw's firm eye in their goal of world domination. The Claw, through the series, hijacks an undersea lab to use its powers to try and wipe out coastal cities, tries to seize a NATO memory core to disable their defenses and coldly orders Norris' young friend Too Much murdered, attempts to seize a powerful laser robot to use it to attack and devastate Tokyo and orders a train full of people transporting it spitefully destroyed, and steals a shuttle to try and extort billions of dollars out of all the world's major powers lest he use a Kill Sat to obliterate all of the capital cities of each powerful country around the world. Throughout the series, the Claw regularly tortures and murders his own minions with aplomb and is happy to claim as many civilian lives as it takes to further his own nefarious agenda.

edited 15th Sep '17 8:07:53 AM by Scraggle

ChaoticQueen Since: Mar, 2011
#94670: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:06:23 AM

[tdown] to Doviculus. I played that game in High School and he's too much of a Generic Doomsday Villain.

edited 15th Sep '17 8:06:56 AM by ChaoticQueen

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94671: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:14:28 AM

Eh... I wouldn't dismiss Doviculus as a GDV. He doesn't have immense characterization, but IIRC it is enough to take him out of the trope. There are a few humorous bits with him I think give him some leeway in terms of how solidly he's characterized, such as screaming at cars to bow to him ("You will give me your secrets, automobile!). That said, especially with those bits in mind, I'll have to abstain for now... I can't recall if he was played seriously enough and I'll have to give that a second look.

I'd love to vote him up, though, if not just for his death scene.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94672: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:17:19 AM

[up][up][up] And, got them. You said Ra Moon doesn't do anything of note in the Sonic crossover?

[down] Cool.

edited 15th Sep '17 8:19:22 AM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94673: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:18:54 AM

Yes I did and I don't know why you'd even get the impression he did do anything there. Wily and Robotnik are the villains there and a bit of research could've told you Ra Moon's betrayal comes after that arc.

edited 15th Sep '17 8:19:07 AM by Scraggle

32_Footsteps Think of the mooks! from Just north of Arkham Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Think of the mooks!
#94674: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:19:45 AM

Okay, I'm really behind on looking at things, so I can't give a detailed rundown on everything... but Mother Brain from Chrono Trigger? Really? Beyond the fact that she does by all accounts care for her "children," she's small potatoes compared to those in different points in history with similar agendas and resources (she's not even as far along with her "destroy humanity" plan than Azala or either Yakra were). In terms of personality, I think she genuinely loves robots too much, and in terms of evil, she's overshadowed by Azala, Yakra, Yakra XIII, Dalton (when you account for the Bonus Dungeon in the DS release), and arguably even Ozzie. Very clear "cut".

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94675: Sep 15th 2017 at 8:21:21 AM

BTW, for Doviculus, here's a montage of his cutscenes.

Even without watching it though, I HIGHLY doubt he's a GDV, as TIM CURRY doesn't seem like the type to play a GDV.


Total posts: 326,048
Top