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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#94502: Sep 13th 2017 at 6:39:03 AM

[up][up][up]cough

edited 13th Sep '17 6:39:19 AM by Larkmarn

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94503: Sep 13th 2017 at 6:53:01 AM

Yes to Stein and yes to Duck's werewolf mad scientist candidate. That guy sounds... fairly nasty for a movie from the forties, if not just for the bit with the child.

Future? Stop bringing up Barkis without some actual new evidence. We discussed him, we judged him a cut, and we cut him. Nowhere in the movie was it ever mentioned he'd killed anyone other than Elizabeth, so stop trying to (not-so-)subtly nudge him back up.

edited 13th Sep '17 6:53:43 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94504: Sep 13th 2017 at 7:01:41 AM

[tup] The Doctor.

Unsure on Stein. He sounds plenty nasty, and a real asshole, but I'm a bit way since it seems like he was just one agent of Solaris.

NTG Since: Aug, 2014
#94505: Sep 13th 2017 at 7:24:07 AM

[tup] Dr. Lorenzo Cameron. Although he seems to be far less heinous than most other candidates. Yes, I just called a guy who turned an innocent man into a monster and then used him to murder other people for petty reasons “less heinous”. I think that says a lot about the kind of villains we’re talking about in this thread. grin

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94506: Sep 13th 2017 at 7:34:30 AM

[up] Oh, believe me, it's VERY easy to get jaded. I remember with Lord Kung from Burning Paradise, I was like, he counts, but, yawn, another Serial Rapist Torture Technician [lol]

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94507: Sep 13th 2017 at 7:48:54 AM

To be honest, I think a good reason why I personally think Kung stands out is because of the medium he's presented in. Place him in, say, a book, or a comic, where it's much easier to represent those sorts of awful deeds (and, I've noticed, where the vast majority of our absolute nastiest seem to come from... see Allen, Aurang, and Ravok's endless supply of rape-murder-cannibal crime novel candidates, and characters like Darkseid and Absinthe for comics). In a full-blown movie, where it's significantly more costly — and perhaps controversial — to show those kinds of things? I don't think there have been too many like Kung.

edited 13th Sep '17 7:49:18 AM by Scraggle

speyeker Since: Jan, 2001
#94508: Sep 13th 2017 at 7:52:25 AM

I think this was talked about a couple pages back, but I can try looking for a good image for the Mega Man Monster page, though given the nature of the games and their limited graphics and limited amount of text displaying at a time, it may prove challenging. I also have no knowledge of the anime or manga adaptations, so I probably won't look for images related to Slur or the recent manga additions that FriedWarthog suggested.

edited 13th Sep '17 7:53:04 AM by speyeker

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94509: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:01:43 AM

[tup] Lorenzo Cameron.

I feel like Cinder Fall gets brought up on a seasonal basis. Maybe it's just me, maybe it just seems like she gets brought up more than she actually does. Not as much as some... other candidates I would rather not talk about. But still, we decided she counts, and if you feel sympathy for her, well, we voted and decided she counts, so she's being kept. As for audience reactions, well, we can't control those, nor should we, but we ask that the process we employ here to add or remove characters is respected.

As for the Xenogears guy, I don't know, I know little of that game so I don't wanna get involved in something I know nothing about.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94510: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:03:40 AM

[up][up][up] Hmm, you have a point there. And published works (books, comics, and add manga there) do indeed seem to have some of the worst (oh, hi there Shira and Wolfram).

Incidentally, our friend Takashi Miike is making (has made?) a film of Blade. Makes you wonder how much of Shira's depravities will be shown.

edited 13th Sep '17 8:03:52 AM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94511: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:05:32 AM

Looks like the Blade of the Immortal movie is due for release on the third of November in the US. I think that might be worth reserving if good old Shira's making an appearance.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#94512: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:06:29 AM

[up][up][up] Might want to chime in on the discussion page.

Hrm, have any characters from the Yakuza series been proposed? I think the third game had a contender. Might be a tough sell since, well, it's a series about playing as yakuza but there's a pretty nasty piece of work.

edited 13th Sep '17 8:11:53 AM by Larkmarn

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94513: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:13:23 AM

Shoot us up with an EP if you think there's discussion to be made. I'm all ears.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94514: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:25:30 AM

There's two guys in Yakuza 4 that are nasty pieces of work, but I'm not familiar enough with the entire series to bring myself to make an EP. Again, another untapped franchise.

The Big Bad of the non canon Dead Souls game probably counts, like, he has this half assed "Life is pain, so just become a blissful zombie" which is so out of nowhere I'm not sure what to make of it.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#94515: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:39:32 AM

Just try with an EP there. Just read the wiki to see how the other big bads compare at a glance

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94516: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:46:18 AM

[up] Yeah, about that? Those games are long, man! I could do it, but I need some massive motivation. I beat a game recently and have an EP ready - which I'll post when the time is right - but that game was way shorter and had a way simple plot than the constant scheming and intrigue of Yakuza. And heinousness, while we're on the subject, shouldn't be much of an issue, since these Yakuza are very romanticised, having strict codes of conduct. The villains tend to distinguish themselves by breaking these codes.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94517: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:48:09 AM

I'd just watch an LP. I've done that a few times, most notably for a score of the Ys games.

Larkmarn Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
#94518: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:50:47 AM

[up][up] Yeah, exactly. They have a code, and when some people break it, they break it.

I'll do an EP on the guy I'm thinking (Tetsuo Tamashiro, btw) and probably yeah, DD from Dead Souls. This'll be fun, I love those games.

edited 13th Sep '17 8:52:23 AM by Larkmarn

Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#94519: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:50:52 AM

[tup] to Dr. Cameron.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#94520: Sep 13th 2017 at 8:57:16 AM

DD should be easier, since Dead Souls has a relatively simple zombie plot with a clear Big Bad. Well, it's clear when you beat the game.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#94521: Sep 13th 2017 at 9:13:30 AM

If we need an image for the Mega Man page, I've got a good one of MegaMan DS here: [1]

Might need cropping, but I'm confined to a tablet and thus probably can't quite handle something like that.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#94522: Sep 13th 2017 at 9:16:09 AM

@Scraggle I think you meant Emily, not Elizabeth.

I have plans for an EP later on a character who didn't really get a proper one a while ago (it was only two paragraphs and each one was suggesting a different character from the same movie).

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#94523: Sep 13th 2017 at 9:18:18 AM

[up] My point still stands. Stop bringing him up.

Crop it to just the bottom picture and I think that one of DS works decently, Warthog (the blood/oil/ooey-gooey bad stuff dripping from his hands sells it most to me). I can't think of any others that would work off the top of my head, though I'm sure there are some... Weil I sadly can't recall having many and neither do I recall Ra Moon having any.

edited 13th Sep '17 9:19:32 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#94524: Sep 13th 2017 at 9:27:06 AM

DS looks WAY too happy there. Any good captions?

BTW, we still got 2 pages needing quotes: Dance In The Vampire Bund & Tortall Universe.

edited 13th Sep '17 9:49:19 AM by ACW

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#94525: Sep 13th 2017 at 9:48:55 AM

[tup]Dr. Cameron.

Why so serious?

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