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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#92852: Aug 22nd 2017 at 3:43:25 PM

Wow, making progress. Here's all that's pending:

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#92853: Aug 22nd 2017 at 4:13:52 PM

Okay with more than enough votes here Tahir Khaled's write up

NCIS Los Angeles: Tahir Khaled is a terrorist from Sudan who serves as Agent Sam Hana's Arch-Enemy. First appearing in Season 3 he brutally murders three CIA agents and tortures Sam for information. He later arranges his sister Jada to be killed, whom he also regularly abuses only to have a recently rescued Sam save her. Upset only because Jada will testify against him, Khaled sought vengeance against Sam during Season 7 by targeting the latter's loved ones ranging from launching a missile at his families home to appearing at his son's school with the intent to kill him, while callously killing innocents along the way. Upon being arrested he arranges for his escape near the end of season 8 by kidnapping Sam's wife, Michelle to use as a a bargaining chip for his release. Despite being release Tahir kills her anyway via asphyxiation, then proceeds to steals her body and starts to desecrate it. When Tahir manages to lure Sam to him in a bus he attempts to detonate bomb he placed inside said bus intending to take Sam as well as everyone else in the bus with him to the grave. Though lacking in high body count, Tahir Khaled makes up for in his petty cruelty against Sam and his family and friends cementing him as Sam Hana's personal nightmare.

Also Tahir goes right before Marcel Janvier since the former appear before the latter.

edited 22nd Aug '17 4:56:56 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#92854: Aug 22nd 2017 at 5:25:28 PM

[tup] to Ubel Griswold (and yet another book to add to the bucket list, either I'm going to have retire very young or live for a very long time).

CyberXIII Since: Apr, 2009
#92855: Aug 22nd 2017 at 6:20:26 PM

I've been meaning to propose this guy for a while, but never seemed to find the time.

Another candidate from an Ultraman series, in this case Ultraman Ginga S:

Who is he? Alien Chibull/Chibu Exceller, the main villain of Ginga S.

What has he done? Exceller starts off a mildly goofy-sounding antagonist, an Affably Evil alien that looks like a brain in a jar with a foppish voice and love of chess metaphors.

This is a trick. Exceller is actually a sociopathic alien with no regard for anyone's lives but his own. His plan is to mine the planet of Victorium and use it to rebuild Dark Lugiel's body, only to hijack it for himself and use it's power to rule the universe. To this end, he sends his enforcers, Android Zero-One, along with Vorst the Alien Guts, and an army of other aliens and machines to conquer the planet and mine the Victorium from Japan, tearing apart cities to get to it.

Seems standard Ultra stuff at first, but what pushes him over the edge is his methods. Android 01, also called Mana, was his most loyal enforcer, nearly getting herself destroyed multiple times to please her master. Exceller repays her loyalty by ordering her to blow herself up in the middle of the enemy base, citing she's outlived her usefulness. Vorst is likewise betrayed by Exceller near the end of the series. Exceller, bored with Vorst's goofy antics, drives Vorst insane with rage and sends him to his death at the hands of UPG. This happens AFTER Vorst has already completed the mission Exceller sent him on; which was murdering the innocent, sentient kaiju Shepardon for its power source. Afterwards, Exceller uses the stolen power for a test run, forcibly merging himself with several other (still living) monsters and aliens into the chimera Five King. While he's eventually beaten, he takes great pleasure in beating Ginga and Victory almost to death, at one point torturing a helpless Ginga and turning both of them to stone.

Exceller eventually brings back Lugiel, only to lobotomize him and hijack his body as the monstrous mechanical dragon Vict Lugiel. He goes on a worse rampage this time, nearly killing the heroes and forcing Android Zero One to commit a heroic sacrifice to stop him. But this backfires—-Lugiel regains control of himself, shoots Exceller in the back, and kills him.

Redeeming Qualities: None. Exceller is defined by his pride, sadism, and belief that he is the smartest being in the universe. He does not care about any of his subordinates, at times gleefully betraying them, and only cares about himself.

Heinous Standard: This was the sticking point, but in the end I say he's as bad as Lugiel was in the previous series. Yes, Lugiel eventually proves Eviler Than Thou, but he only was able to do so because Exceller brought him back to life. That's less Eviler than Thou and more Evil is Not a Toy. Just like Lugiel, he had an army of followers, and he also throws all of them under the bus by the end of the series.

edited 22nd Aug '17 6:21:15 PM by CyberXIII

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#92858: Aug 22nd 2017 at 7:35:36 PM

[tup] Exceller

So, Haguro Dou strikes me as having a writeup bearing a lot of unnecessary info and a quick google reveals it's pretty damn similar to the blurb on him on Villain's Wiki. Thought I'd give a stab at a rewrite:

  • Haguro Dou is a sociopathic teenager whose tendencies are dreaded by his classmates. Killing a hospitalized boy by pulling his life support, Haguro manipulates his brother into shooting up the school by pinning the blame on The Hero, Inugami. Angered by a subordinate conversing with Ingumani, Haguro responds by raping him before brutally murdering his follower. Bearing a lustful obsession with Inugami, Haguro kidnaps his Love Interest, Akiko Aoshika and routinely tortures and rapes her, encouraging his Yakuza followers to do the same, seeking to utterly break her and records the sessions to send to Inugami, taunting him and threatening to release them to the internet. When fighting Inugami, Haguro continues to show depravity by bites off parts of him, believing it indicates he’s an apex predator above even the werewolf Inugami. A proud sadist, Haguro is a disgusting young man who thinks the depth of his evil proves how strong he is.

edited 22nd Aug '17 8:02:00 PM by 43110

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#92859: Aug 22nd 2017 at 7:46:08 PM

[tup] Exceller

[down] sorry I forgot to give a [tup]

edited 22nd Aug '17 8:22:59 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#92861: Aug 22nd 2017 at 8:14:33 PM

Is PT Westmoreland from Orphan Black a complete monster? The guy's ultimately responsible for a LOT of suffering

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#92862: Aug 22nd 2017 at 8:17:38 PM

[tup] to Khaled, Griswold, and Exceller.

[up] We're going to need a LOT more information than that.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#92863: Aug 22nd 2017 at 8:18:16 PM

Hodor said he'd post the last OB villain this weekend. Wait.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#92864: Aug 22nd 2017 at 8:25:20 PM

[up][up][up] If you watch the show and feel like he counts you can create a EP on August 26, 2017 on why you believe he counts and we should think he counts.

[up] really I didn't see Hordor reserve the discussion

edited 22nd Aug '17 8:27:24 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#92865: Aug 23rd 2017 at 12:48:15 AM

[up] If Hodor said he'll do it, Hodor can do it. Don't get hostile about this.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#92866: Aug 23rd 2017 at 1:08:16 AM

Adjusting a write-up. Expanded some, altered some wording and potholes.

Film's highly recommend, if you can stand subtitles and graphic violence. I will provide links upon request.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#92867: Aug 23rd 2017 at 1:17:46 AM

DDD, please add to the drafts.

Think I'll give a slight [tup] for Exceller. Seems like a Bad Boss supreme.

Haguro's writeup probably could indeed use some trimming; for those who know the series, is the new writeup TOO concise?

MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#92869: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:20:16 AM

So Aku is done and dusted, we all agree that. But I was lurking around places, and I found what appears to be someone preparing an Aku effort post contesting his addition to the Never Again list. I read it, and I don't believe the points he makes are convincing enough to change opinions. Do we do anything or wait until it's on here?

EDIT: Also I have a separate question. Would it be okay if we made a page of our profiles containing all our CM write ups ? For example, if I did it, I'd make Mah Stache. If I did, I'd need thread permission first.

[down] I didn't want to start drama. But it was relevant to here and I wanted to bring it up here, to see people's thoughts on it

edited 23rd Aug '17 5:51:45 AM by MahStache

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#92870: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:22:26 AM

This is the definition of drama importing.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#92871: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:25:47 AM

[up][up]We don't need to get in arguments on reddit, let's just wait and see if he actually goes through with it. We can shut it down then.

edited 23rd Aug '17 5:26:13 AM by TommyFresh

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#92872: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:28:20 AM

[tup]Griswold and Exceller

Speaking of Aku...........I was actually going to ask a question since here's the thing. After seeing the debate regarding the Storykeeper's candidate which obviously doesn't count while his dragon is given that he's treated as a joke in some pages back. I've wanted to ask this...........Any examples other than Storykeepers where basically the Dragon or the villain itself has a small resources compared to the Big Bad ended up counting while the Big Bad itself does not?

edited 23rd Aug '17 5:29:33 AM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#92873: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:39:41 AM

[up] Well recently, an example of only Dragons/subordinates counting instead of bosses was Wasperus from that Spider-Man comic. Also Randall Flagg obviously.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#92874: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:41:24 AM

I'm simply going to report any Aku post that comes through here to the moderators and I suggest any who see it first do the same. Actively defying our "never to be discussed again" list is just begging for moderator action.

edited 23rd Aug '17 5:44:11 AM by Scraggle

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#92875: Aug 23rd 2017 at 5:55:02 AM

Like in the Storykeepers, in Murena Nero's henchman Massam is a CM while Nero himself isn't. In Daredevil (2003), Bullseye is a CM while the Kingpin isnt. etc

They usually count because they go out of their way in their tasks.


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