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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#92626: Aug 18th 2017 at 4:47:02 PM

[tup] Ultron. Sounds more like narcassism to me.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#92627: Aug 18th 2017 at 4:57:09 PM

I... suppose I'll give a weak yes to Ultron, for now. Ditto Selwyn.

Also, Arem's at three nays and five yeas with a couple more abstentions, I think. Any more votes on either side there? I'd like him resolved before I go and write up my Ys keepers.

edited 18th Aug '17 4:59:26 PM by Scraggle

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#92628: Aug 18th 2017 at 6:03:44 PM

[tup] to Ultron and Swelyn. I'm not sure about Arem however

edited 18th Aug '17 6:03:59 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#92631: Aug 18th 2017 at 6:52:03 PM

Going to probably abstain on Arem. No offense.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#92632: Aug 18th 2017 at 7:43:09 PM

Yeah, that's weird. Kidnap (2017) has been in theaters for several months now, I literally watched it at my local theater some time in April but the Wikipedia keeps saying that it was released in August. From what I can gather though, it was apparently slated for release on March 10, 2017 after the release (it was actually originally suppose to be released in October 2015) had been pushed back/rescheduled several times over the past couple of years but was delayed after a new distributor claimed rights for it and released in August 2017.

My guess is that sometime in between March and August the original distributor lost his rights to the film and it had to be pulled off theaters until the new distributor claimed the rights to it which is why the release date is being listed as it is.

Animeking1108 Since: Jan, 2010
#92633: Aug 18th 2017 at 8:07:04 PM

I've been looking up quotes from Junko Enoshima, and I was wondering if any of these qualified.

Thousands of human falling over like dominoes... ahhh... that sight was so beautiful! I thought my brain was gonna melt..!
Junko Enoshima, Danganronpa.

To me, despair isn't goal or a cause or a way of life or an instinct... It's what defines me as Junko Enoshima!
Junko's AI, Super Danganronpa 2.

Hope is harmony. A just heart, moving toward the light. That is all. Despair is hope's polar opposite. It is messy and confusing. It swallows up love, hatred, and everything else. Because not knowing where you will end up is despair. Despair is even what you cannot predict. Only despair's unpredictability can save you from a boring future.
Junko Enoshima, Danganronpa 3.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#92634: Aug 18th 2017 at 9:04:28 PM

'Yes' to Ultron and Selwyn.

@PolarPhatom: I personally played maybe 5 Ys games, and watched walkthroughs for the rest. NO SLEEP FOR THE TROPER!!!

As an aside, I recently read and watched American Psycho for the first time, and I personally think Bateman's current write-up is a bit....wonky. Would anyone mind if I took a shot at a rewrite? Here's the current:

edited 18th Aug '17 9:14:43 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#92635: Aug 18th 2017 at 9:12:31 PM

Please do so... one of my personal favourite CMs (and movies) but also one I've been looking at personally rewriting.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#92636: Aug 18th 2017 at 9:17:16 PM

@Polar: Didn't manage to play any of the games myself but I've watched playthroughs of almost every game in the series... plus their remakes. That was a doozy.

And fully agreeing that Bateman needs a rewrite.

ThePest179 Since: Jul, 2015
#92637: Aug 18th 2017 at 9:27:49 PM

Rewrite Bateman ASAP. Please. tongue

edited 18th Aug '17 9:28:07 PM by ThePest179

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#92638: Aug 18th 2017 at 10:18:05 PM

I haven't Read or watch American Psycho. But does the Movie version of Bateman count as a CM?

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#92639: Aug 18th 2017 at 10:23:39 PM

[up]No, he doesn't. He has a Pet the Dog moment when he lets Jean, his secretary who loves him, leave his apartment before he kills her.

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#92640: Aug 18th 2017 at 10:33:01 PM

Thanks. Just clarifying. Although I'm still confused with that Pet the Dog moment is a subversion or not but eh, I'll pass anyway.

Also, Has anyone here watched an anime called Twin Star Exorcist/Sousei no Onmyouji? I will tell you something The main villain in that anime is a keeper in my book but I never seen anyone discussing this guy. I would love to effortpost him if you don't mind.

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#92641: Aug 18th 2017 at 10:35:07 PM

Honestly, I personally wouldn't disqualify Bateman for that. His novel version does the exact same thing, yet it isn't disqualifying because it is made explicitly clear that he is only doing so out of amusement for her naivety and love for him.

Notice how Film!Bateman only sends Jean away when he gets startled by his phone ringing, then her starting to fawn over him. He's obviously having a momentary lapse of his regular sadism, and just kind of mumbles "You should probably go before I hurt you", with her interpreting it as "emotionally". Before that? He nearly shot her in the head with a goofy grin on his face. He also later screams and insults her with murderous rage.

This is debatable, of course, but I'm of the opinion that Film!Bateman counts. Not as easily as his novel iteration, but still.

edited 18th Aug '17 10:38:06 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#92642: Aug 18th 2017 at 10:58:24 PM

ElfenLiedFan90, please add the writeup here.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#92643: Aug 18th 2017 at 11:09:17 PM

Also, feel free to EP that Twin Sta Exorcist villain you mentioned. Nobody's brought him/her up

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#92644: Aug 18th 2017 at 11:13:59 PM

I got help from another user which is nice. So I think I'll use the other user's writeup instead. Big thanks to 43110 for writing this:

  • Introduced as a mere treasure hunting burglar, Professor Clover reveals himself to be insatiable greed personified in his second appearance. Kidnapping and posing as a kingdom’s general to manipulate the land’s princess, seeking to activate a weapon which would destroy the city, just to get an orb to power up his staff. To gain a rare treasure, Clover murdered the parents of two main characters, leading to both going through horrific childhoods following being orphaned. Previously working as the agent of an unknown federation, Clover again worked to steal another treasure, hoping to use its power to threaten the citizens of the nation containing it to submit to them lest he wipe them from the face of the earth. Manipulative and cruel, Clover corrupts a girl with time bending powers, using her to steal more treasure and cause [more havoc]. When the heroes try to save her from his clutches, Clover threatens to murder her with acid, rather than lose her.

I'll add that version to the drafts instead of mine. Also, Some things to note regarding Professor Clover:

Regarding the murder of Queen's parents. It happened when Queen was a baby.....But she was saved by Silver Heart and she was raised by him like a granddaughter she never has. But, When Queen discovered her parent's Grave, Clover uses This as a Opportunity to manipulate Queen to work for his side And not only that, He Also framed Silver Heart for her parents murderer So that he could use her innocent mind to murder Silver Heart. And also, The way that he kills Queen's parents...........He stabbed the two and they're almost dying and he sets the castle that the two lived on fire. As a result of the murder of Queen's parents, The Country which Queen has a potential to rule got destroyed in process and because of that too, there were rumors spreading towards people that Queen's parents was murdered due to assassination attempt from a certain country.

And not only that, Regarding Rose........When she got captured by Clover. She was put into a deep sleep and for some reason, The orbs was scattered through the world and dimension of time. And after Clover obtained all the orbs to power his staff, He controls her when she was in And I Must Scream state situation and he used her too for trying to kill Silver Heart. He may manages to wound him but fortunately Silver Heart survives the attack.

EDIT: @ACW Also, How to link the write up to a certain subpages? I know that Kaitou Joker has a YMMV page and a page based on it. Like for example.........I wrote Kaitou Joker and the Kaitou Joker text leads you to it's YMMV page. I don't know how to do it tbh :/

edited 18th Aug '17 11:17:50 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#92645: Aug 18th 2017 at 11:23:16 PM

I'll write up Ultron today (his 7th iteration I believe) and effortpost Hobgoblin.

I'm fine with a Bateman rewrite.

[up] It'd be Anime/ Kaitou Joker (without the spaces). For tropes,, it'd be, for example, [[Complete Monster name of character]] (without the space between Complete and Monster).

[down] I'll take care of the subpage stuff.

edited 18th Aug '17 11:26:57 PM by ACW

ElfenLiedFan90 Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression) from Jakarta,Indonesia Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
#92646: Aug 18th 2017 at 11:25:29 PM

Alright. I'll add this to the drafts ASAP. But I won't link it to the subpages even though that Kaitou Joker already has a page and it's YMMV page too

[up]Thank you very much. Also, You already read the additional note on Clover's crimes. If you don't then it's okay :)

edited 18th Aug '17 11:29:38 PM by ElfenLiedFan90

"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#92647: Aug 19th 2017 at 12:00:33 AM

The thing about Jean (at least that I got from wikipedia) is that he does actually somewhat care for her, mostly because she's the one thing in his life that's actually genuine rather than shallow or fake; the implication is THAT'S why he can't . Hell the officially approved sequel (emails made to promote the film) mention that he married her and had a kid at one point.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#92648: Aug 19th 2017 at 12:04:42 AM

I'd prefer to simply ignore the continuity of American Psycho 2: Bad Teenage Fanfiction Edition, but even if we do, the circumstances between Bateman sparing Jean in the movie are far too disputable for him to count there. This isn't a quality that holds up in the novel, though... so I think Batman can be kept there as the psychotic, depraved piece of shit that he is there. Any issues with "was it all real?" have already been discussed to death on the thread.

edited 19th Aug '17 12:05:07 AM by Scraggle

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#92649: Aug 19th 2017 at 12:08:09 AM

Already well I'm going to bed soon to get ready for tomorrow because I'm going to Las Vegas for a week. So I might not appear that often during that week but I'll try to stop by to put in my votes.

edited 19th Aug '17 12:09:31 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#92650: Aug 19th 2017 at 12:19:39 AM

[up][up] Batman? Looks like "Crazy Steve" REALLY flipped out [lol]

edited 19th Aug '17 12:19:51 AM by ACW


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