During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here's I THINK everything that's pending (excepting the big 3 and my own Carnage writeup; there's also one from music but I can't remember what it is).
- Guy du Lusignan & maybe Reynald de Chatillon (Ambar)
- Kuwadate (KazuyaProta)
- Adolican Rhand (MasterGhandalf)
- Bernie Berckson (NTG)
Did all those get approved? If so, I'll PM the last 3 Tropers.
edited 18th Jul '17 1:17:36 PM by ACW
Here's a write-up for Adolican Rhand:
- Brimstone Angels may deal heavily with the activities of devils, but its worst antagonist, the Arc Villain of the second and third books, is all too human. Adolican Rhand is a sadistic and ambitious Netherese wizard-lord who takes an interest in Farideh in Lesser Evils, stalking her and eventually drugging her with something that induces a Mind Rape-like effect. It's later revealed that Rhand is a Serial Killer with a fondness for raping and murdering young women who catch his eye (the details are left vague, but were apparently brutal enough to traumatize Dahl when he investigated and ultimately drive him to drink), a fate Farideh barely escapes. He later tracks her party to the lost library of the archmage Tarchamus, hoping to claim a spell the legendary wizard used to wipe out entire cities; Farideh and her companions destroy the library to deny him his prize, leaving him only with scraps. In The Adversary, he aligns himself with the forces of the Nine Hells to harvest the souls of Chosen, splitting their god-granted powers between them, though he ultimately intends to double-cross the devils. As part of this bargain Farideh is forced to work with him, using her power to see souls to sort out the real Chosen from the fakes; when she refuses to comply, Rhand has dozens of innocent captives (including children) summarily executed until she relents. Though he still intends to make Farideh his latest victim once she outlives her usefulness, in the end she outwits him and escapes, leaving him to meet his end when his fortress collapses on him.
have a proposal in honor of the late George Romero.
What's The Work?
So, Return of the Living Dead is a 1978 novel by John Russo, the co-writer of Night of the Living Dead, written as a sequel to Russo's novelization of the film and the film itself...no relation to the zombie film of the same name (confusingly also novelized by Russo)
Anyways, I digress...Night of the Living Dead? At the end, the zombie apocalypse has been successfully halted. The living dead have been returned to the grave....only for a new undead plague to begin. The Miller sisters, Ellen, Karen and Sue Ann are being driven by their abusive, religious father Bert to a funeral...only for a bus crash to result in a new plague of the walking dead. A zombie fights its way into the Miller family's house where it eats their father...only to be saved by a group of state troopers with several prisoners. Unfortunately...
Who Are They and What do They Do?
John Carter and Flack are two of the 'troopers'...it may not shock you they're convicts who, along with their partners Wade Connelly and Angel had overpowered the actual state troopers and switched clothes with them. Connelly and Carter took the uniforms, leaving Flack and the female Angel in normal clothes. With the zombie apocalypse going on, the group is seeking refuge. Unfortunately, Carter and Flack are markedly sadistic and insane.
Flack and Carter reveal their identities, taking the girls and their friend, a teen named Billy, hostage. Flack rapes Sue Ann and they reveal what they intend: take hostages to use as "zombie feed", or live bait...Connelly and Angel don't last long. Deciding to flee with the undead approaching, Flack and Carter get a nasty idea and shoot one of the cops, Carl. Flack grins and tells the other, Dave, they'll let Carl painfully bleed out from a gutshot...and then rise again to eat Dave while he's helpless, while he draws the other zombies.
Taking Sue Ann and Ellen as hostages, they leave Karen who's pregnant and in labor since it's too much trouble. When they're driving off, the zombies are getting too close on the country road, so they throw off Billy to the zombies where he's devoured. They decide to keep Sue Ann and Ellen as long as they can to use as sex slaves.
Flack and Carter come upon a more well fortified house after killing everyone else in the way, with a wealthy family. Breaking in, they murder everyone inside against the wealthy family, the Kingsleys: a father, mother and a ten year old son. Tying them together, Flack and Carter leads them outside and throw them to the zombie horde together. At this time, the cop Dave had been saved and had tracked the group to the Kingsleys to save the women from Carter and Flack. Carter and Flack have bound Sue and Ellen to the beds to rape at their leisure at this point, and Dave, using an axe ambushes Flack and splits his skull open. He then takes Flack's gun, ambushes Carter and shoots him dead before shooting him in the head to make sure he won't return.
Heinous Standard?
The worst in story. There's a crazy preacher, an abusive father, nasty looters and other criminals, but Carter and Flack have a large body county, created the idea of 'zombie baiting' which Flack does for fun rather than just needing to escape, and both are rapists. Easy pass here.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely zilch. The two are sadistic lunatics who just see a zombie apocalypse as a chance to cut loose.
Conclusion?
I say keep them.
Flack, who actually sounds WORSE then Carter (the whole "zombie-baiting" thing (that's a unique crime) For the Evulz).
edited 18th Jul '17 3:06:34 PM by ACW
Alright, I think I'm good on votes, so I'll do Eileen's writeup. I also noticed something pretty funny: her husband is a man named Leo, and, of course, her real lover (using that term loosely here) is none other than Lucifer. Sound familiar
?
Eileen Hoffmister is a Wicked Witch in direct service to the Devil himself. She abducts people — usually children and offers them to her master to transform into zombie slaves who are damned to Hell upon their final death. In the prequel story, Slave By Sundown
, Eileen and her husband, Leo, capture Stella, a young girl who stumbled across their cottage in the woods. They throw her in a basement with their zombie servant, Lester, and attempt to offer her to Lucifer. When he rejects her, Eileen tries to soak her in gasoline and allow Lester to burn her. In From Hell I Write
, she and Leo force their adopted son, David, to participate in Satanic rituals involving animal sacrifice, and she beats him when he wets himself in fear. Eileen makes repeated attempts to abduct the young protagonist, Patrick Williams, and stalks him and his family after she suspects him of telling everyone about their rituals. One night, Patrick's brothers, Darren and Bryce, sneak out with some friends to visit the Hoffmisters' home, only to never be heard from again. Patrick finds a videotape of Darren being abused by Eileen before she pulls out a sickle. Later, a voluntarily possessed Eileen chases the two children and eviscerates their babysitter, Betty, when she tries to protect the children. The two are then brought back to the house, where Leo is killed for trying to rape Nancy against Eileen's orders. Patrick is forced to see his zombified family, along with David and the missing neighborhood kids before being turned into a zombie himself and sent to Hell sometime later. Twenty years later, in the sequel, Nancy's Angelface
, Nancy finds a still-possessed Eileen in her boyfriend, Jackson's, basement, and is nearly killed by her until Jackson comes home and intervenes.
I left out some parts, like that Jackson was abused and that Eileen had sex with the Devil, just to keep it as short as I possibly could. Hope that's acceptable.
EDIT: Come to think of it, maybe Leo would fit in there someplace. As I was typing this, Dez and Edele came to mind as a similar CM couple. Also, turns out I was wrong about him never getting his hands dirty. He beheads a rooster and gives Lester the match to burn Stella. Which still isn't QUITE as bad as anything Eileen does, but he's still a pretty nasty accomplice.
edited 18th Jul '17 4:38:55 PM by Stellarvore
"No" to Phantom Killer, "no" to Silver Sun, "no" on Samara. In the last case I would remind everyone that a Freudian Excuse does not have to justify the character's actions in order to be valid, it simply has to explain and inform them in a meaningful way. Samara's a psychologically destroyed child lashing out at the world around her.
I would not disagree with you in any way though. The X-Men comics have been a disaster for years, and when writers can't agree on things as basic as a character's powers it's perhaps unsurprising that they can't agree on his characterization.
Multiple characters whom we currently have on the list, including Apocalypse and Mister Sinister are listed on the character sheets as possessing redeeming qualities, standards, and the like. Since I avoid the X-Men like a disease, I cannot say with any certainty which of these statements are false. Someone who knows the series better than I do should take a look.
edited 18th Jul '17 11:51:55 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar
Alright, on X-Men... I don't really think any excess cleanup needs to take place considering that we've had our current qualifiers on the trope for years and the X-Men continuity is — to put it mildly — a train wreck. It'd be an absolute headache to sort through it all, so I vouch we simply leave it be unless something's really at odds with the trope (like Stryker's character page, which Ravok's already cleaned).
edited 19th Jul '17 12:40:29 AM by Scraggle
Sigh...from Lorne Malvo's character page:
- Pet the Dog: Gives Mr. Wrench the key to his handcuffs so he can avenge Mr. Numbers' death if he wants to.
Also, Kuwadate was written up. Here it is with potholes and cleaned-up English:
- Hohzuki Island: Kuwadate is the teacher on the seemingly Orphanage of Fear on a island in Japan. In the same chapter where he is introduced, he attempts to rape his co-worker Yukino. After she defended herself, Kuwadate accosted one of his preteen students and tried twice unsuccessfully to rape her. Kuwadate is by far the most vicious and dangerous of the teachers. When the same student who he tried to rape fall unconscious, Kudawate tries to rape her again only to be stopped. When a child lies to protect his teammates, Kuwadate breaks his leg and leaves him alone in the wilderness. After he apparently dies while trying to kill the children, he reappears, trying to kill now both the children and his own coworkers. When The Reveal happens, Kuwadate end up being the only actually evil teacher, lacking any redeeming quality. In a series full of White-and-Grey Morality, Kuwadate show his heinousness by being as bad as the children see him.
edited 19th Jul '17 7:37:22 AM by ACW
No. Malvo was basically taunting Mr. Wrench. From what I recall, he was more or less telling him, "Hey. I killed your best friend. You are more than happy to try and avenge him. You're gonna fail, but hey. You can try."

@HT: Thanks! Took a bit, but I'm happy with the results. Oh, and on that note? Stryker's got a currently ongoing arc with the whole "mutating people" thing, so I won't be at all surprised if he needs an update once it's done.
@Silverblade: Ragyo literally has Nui kill herself for nothing but a freaking power boost. Nothing redeeming there at ALL.
edited 18th Jul '17 11:35:53 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!