TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#8951: Feb 25th 2013 at 6:08:40 PM

Lightysnake if you want to remain unspoiled on Crossbone Gundam don't read the rest of this post.

[up]This was listed about Dogatie under Alas, Poor Villain on Crossbone Gundam:

  • Dogatie's Motive Rant with Tobia during the final battle reveals that he was originally a honest ruler until he married Bernadette's mother, an Earthnoid girl who alway showed kindness towards people, even a miserable old man like him. After she died in childbirth, Dogatie realised how much the harsh environment of Jupiter had ripped away his humanity causing him to remain unmoved and uncaring even as his people were dying from starvation. That knowledge drove him completely insane and made him wanted to see the Earth and all the people on it burn for reveling such desolation in him.

Further down on the page under May–December Romance, it mentions that Dogatie's claim to be pure evil is refuted by Tobia since Dogatie had shown he really did love his wife. So he had a loved one, possibly another since he has a daughter who he raised to hate earth, and he's crossed the Despair Event Horizon. It seems the anime does try to make viewers sympathize with him. And, as you said, it sounds like he's not heinous enough for the universe to count.

edited 25th Feb '13 6:09:46 PM by OccasionalExister

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#8952: Feb 25th 2013 at 6:28:50 PM

If what is said about Dogatie is true I guess he could be seen as a very very very dark Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. Which arguably makes him 99% monster and a cut.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#8953: Feb 25th 2013 at 6:52:55 PM

[up][up]I saw those on the main page, but was still hoping to get some feedback from someone whose actually read the manga (this one's a manga spinoff for those who don't know, set somewhere between F91 and Victory), particularly since Alas, Poor Villain is itself prone to abuse. I don't think he qualifies, but I wanted to hold off on cutting until somebody can give me a summation of his actions.

[up]xie, sounds like you might have read the series from that post. Beyond being a fascist, is there anything else Dogatie's done? Right wing authoritarian dictatorships are the norm in Gundam (which isn't surprising given that in the first show Zeon is a thinly veiled jab at Imperial Japan). A friend of mine told me that Dogatie's dictatorship is a lot worse than Gihren's or Kagatie's, and some of what I've read supports that, but is it really? I'm not sure I even see 99% Monster here, honestly.

EDIT: Have cut Dogatie from the YMMV page. If someone who has read the series makes a good case for readding him we can always do that.

EDIT: This was on the YMMV page for Gundam SEED Astray. I'm wondering if it should be added to the main Gundam page, or cut, because I'm right on the fence about this one.

  • Complete Monster: Sociopathic Soldier Ash Gray. The guy works for ZAFT, but only because it gives him a convenient excuse to kill as many people as possible. When he's tasked with finding Lacus Clyne, his plan is to kill her associates, military or civilian, and keep on killing them until she comes out of hiding to try and stop him. Ash is so bad that Knowledge Broker Kenaf Luchini, who arranged the destruction of the Silverwind and the subsequent deaths of everyone aboard basically just because he likes messing with the Junk Guild, pulls out all the stops to take him down (giving the Junk Guild intel on Ash, and hiring Serpent Tail to help them in the fight).

Now, keep in mind, I've only read the first volume of Astray, so my familiarity with the manga is limited and I've never seen Ash in action. That said, I've done my research and there's a fair bit out there on this guy. He's another in Gundam's long proud line of Yazan Gable knockoffs, three of whom are already on the list (four if you count Yazan himself, five if you include Luciano Bradley from Code Geass who is bascially another Yazan expy). So good pedigree there if nothing else.

Anyway, from what I've been able to gather, Ash is a psychopathic Blood Knight who joined up with ZAFT to kill people, and adds a new doll to his trophy collection every time he kills somebody. He's a Serial Killer with a Humongous Mecha, hired to draw out Lacus Clyne. Beyond that, and what's in the entry above I don't know much about his actions in the original Astray. He later returns in Destiny Astray after apparently dying; he's now been brainwashed by Blue Cosmos into working for them.

Going off of that, I'll say this: obviously his actions in Destiny Astray can't be held for him or against him. I don't know enough about what he does within the original Astray to judge either way. Astray is generally pretty light hearted, so if he's a hardcore enough Yazan expy he may well qualify. On the other hand, this is the same universe that gave us Murata Azrael and Lord Djibril.

Thoughts?

edited 25th Feb '13 7:36:46 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#8954: Feb 25th 2013 at 7:56:27 PM

Another Shredder example on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003)

  • The Shredder: Utrom, demon and cyber versions.

Do any versions of the Shredder qualify? In fact, do any TMNT villains qualify?

A Series of Unfortunate Events

Count Olaf has done far worse and doesn't qualify. On top of that, every book in the series has at least one death (often at the hands of Olaf), and Nero has a body count of zero.

The Adventures of the Princess and Mr. Whiffle

  • Complete Monster: The princess in the third ending. Not even a tea party can hide the fact that she's having it in a tent made from the bones of innocents she's devoured.

That's played for comedy

Pineapple Express

  • Ted and the female cop.
No context.

Phantoms

  • The Ancient Enemy. It even believes itself to be Satan.
    • Fletcher Kale, who murdered his wife and son for their life insurance money so he could continue participating in an investment scam, and refers to them as "trash that was cluttering up [his] life."

The Ancient Enemy is an "it"? Can something like that be a CM?

American McGee's Alice

Doesn't explain Jabberwock.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#8955: Feb 25th 2013 at 8:02:45 PM

Cut them ALL except Fletcher andmaybe the American Mc Gee's Alice ones

edited 25th Feb '13 8:05:44 PM by Lightysnake

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#8956: Feb 25th 2013 at 8:22:19 PM

[up][up]Agree that almost all of those, if not all of them period, need cutting.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#8957: Feb 25th 2013 at 8:24:46 PM

[up][up][up] Vice Principal Nero!? Okay, that has got to be a Spongebob sort of case where someone adds a CM just so the series has one listed. If anyone's a CM in ASOUE, it's Olaf's bosses, The Man With A Beard But No Hair and The Woman With Hair But No Beard (who terrify both Olaf and the narrator out of their minds), and not even they fit our guidelines because they do Jack on-page.

On Shredder, he's easily the worst villain in the show, but he's a bit too bog-standard in my book to qualify. That said, I haven't see the Grand Finale, where apparently he tries to nuke the entire multiverse to get revenge on the Turtles.

edited 25th Feb '13 8:26:58 PM by HamburgerTime

Scherzo09 Revy Gonna Give It To Ya from Roanapur Since: Jul, 2010
Revy Gonna Give It To Ya
#8958: Feb 25th 2013 at 8:53:36 PM

Ambar suggest I argue for Ethan Ryer, a villain from 08th MS Team, be included as a CM. He's the closest thing the Feddies have in the One Year War that compares to Ghiren in Amorality. He shows no compassion for his troops, sending his Mobile Suits into unknowing suicide runs into Ginias' base on the off-chance a reactor explosion migh happen to cause the cave system to collapse. When he agrees to a truce with Aina he makes it clear he has no intent to honor it, and while Ginias fires first that still doesn't make it okay for him to destroy that Hospital Ship.

These are the words that shall come from my mouth. I shall be known for speaking them.
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#8959: Feb 25th 2013 at 9:14:16 PM

Scherzo is referring to Ethan Ryer from 08th MS Team, a character I myself have long wondered about. The two of us were talking about it over PM, and he's more or less brought me around on the subject.

For those unfamiliar with the series, 08th MS Team is a spinoff of Mobile Suit Gundam, set during the One Year War. It follows a group of low-ranking mobile suit pilots from The Federation as they struggle to get through the war in one piece. There's no super mecha here, no ace pilots, and no mid season upgrades, just The Squad trying to slog through the war. Trying to do so is made far, far harder, by the late season arrival of Captain (it should really be Colonel but the writer apparently doesn't get military ranks) Ethan Ryer, their new commanding officer.

Ryer is, as Scherzo notes, a total bastard. He firmly believes We Have Reserves. He blows up a hospital ship. He persecutes main character Shiro for acting like the other side are human beings. He tries to trigger a nuclear explosion over a Zeon base by blowing up one of his own men. There's really nothing to like about this guy.

Now, the reason I've been nervy about adding him myself is that there's a few sort of mitigating factors. Ryer's not actually wrong about Shiro's loyalty being shaky, though it should be noted that his persecution of Shiro does more than anything else to drive the kid away. There's also the fact that Zeon are a pretty godawful group of people. As I've noted before, Gihren opened the war by killing damn near a billion people. You could make the argument that doing anything to defeat Zeon is perfectly understandable.

However, I'm not sure any of those excuses aply to Ryer. Ryer's less concerned with defeating Zeon because they are evil, and more with gaining, in his own words, "a desk job at Jaburo", something he can only get if he has enough success in the field. He's not driven by hatred for Zeon, so much as he's driven by a desire for his own promotion. That kills any sympathy.

The only other reason I can see for excluding Ryer is the heinous standard. Now, there's no point comparing him to the likes of Gihren. Ryer's only a "Captain" (I reiterate actually a Colonel). There's also nobody on Ryer's own side who's near as bad. The best person to compare him to, is therefore, Rear-Admiral Ginias Sahalin, the commander of the Zeon forces Ryer is fighting, and the Big Bad of the series. Ginias was at one point on the list, before he was cut. He's a psychotic Zeon admiral who poisons his own scientists when they finish working on his project, tries to murder his own sister for "betraying him", arranges the deaths of his own allies for endangering his project, and eventually goes on a rampage with his new superweapon attacking everybody. He was cut by virtue of the fact that he is suffering from a degerative mental illness, but I am concerned he might overshadow Ryer.

However, as Scherzo pointed out to me in PM, while Ginias' actions are more front and centre, Ryer probably killed more people than Ginias did when he fired on that Zeon hospital ship. Ryer's treatment of his own men, honestly isn't better than Ginias', given that he knows he's sending them on suicide missions, and doesn't care. He also doesn't have Ginias mental instability, and the show repeatedly draws comparisons between the two. In terms of evil, he's around as bad as Zeon's Colonel Killing, who is on the list.

In the final analysis, I lean towards inclusion, but am not one hundred percent sure. Would really appreciate the thoughts of the forum on this one. With this, Dogatie, and Ash Gray all taken care of in the next few days, we may actually be done with Gundam (at least until the next new series comes out). Than I can request that page lock we've been talking about for so long.

edited 25th Feb '13 9:16:47 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#8960: Feb 25th 2013 at 9:24:34 PM

The deciding factor for me, overall?

Ginias is insane and not in full control of his actions. Ryer has no such excuse. Vote to include.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#8961: Feb 25th 2013 at 9:38:06 PM

I'd say the 2003-Shredder counts based on the movie *Turtles Forever* from 2009, but just on the basis of the series, I don't know.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#8962: Feb 25th 2013 at 10:29:25 PM

Yeesh. Ryer sounds like a keep.

The YMMV page for Sherlock Holmes is a total freaking mess when it comes to C Ms, by the way, and since it's a fairly universally known character, let's get this out of the way.

From the original book series:

  • Complete Monster:
    • Holmes feels more revulsion towards the blackmailer Charles Augustus Milverton than to any of the fifty murderers he'd confronted in his career.
    • Moriarty himself. Holmes' words:
—>"The man had hereditary tendencies of the most diabolical kind. A criminal strain ran in his blood, which, instead of being modified, was increased and rendered infinitely more dangerous by his extraordinary mental powers. Dark rumours gathered round him in the University town, and eventually he was compelled to resign his chair and come down to London. He is the Napoleon of Crime, Watson, the organiser of half that is evil and nearly all that is undetected in this great city."

Milverton is pretty bad, but, at the same time, his big crime is blackmail. The Sympathetic Murderer from A Study in Scarlet is more heinous than him in terms of crimes alone.

Now, Moriarty... doesn't actually DO anything on-screen in the original novel series. (Yeah, I know.) Basically, "The Final Problem" starts with Watson wanting to set the record straight about Holmes' and Moriarty's deaths at the Reichenbach Falls, and most of the story is Holmes evading him and trying to escape the nutso professor. The whole "Napoleon of Crime" thing may mean that he's organized some of the crimes shown in the Holmes canon (as the writers of Sherlock have interpreted it, for instance), but that's implication at best. I'd vote to cut both Milverton and Moriarty, although cutting Moriarty might lead to a complete shitstorm on that page.

From Sherlock Holmes (the ones with Robert Downey Jr. and Jude Law):

—>"You, at the fountain golden, —>Of youth, so free from doubt, —>Be to the trout beholden; —>At danger's sign, clear out! —>Tis oft for want of reason —>That maids will shun the straight. —>Beware the anglers' treason —>Else you may bleed too late!"

Lord Blackwood's ritual killing of five girls is largely off-screen (there is a disturbed ritual of his that serves as the Bond Cold Open for the first film), though the rest of his actions are shown as much as they could be in a PG-13 film. I feel, though, that given Moriarty's presence in the second film, he isn't heinous enough. Civil war < world war, after all. Cut.

Moriarty's entry needs to be trimmed considerably if kept, for starters - all the Trout crap is Ho Yay Shipping Natter at its finest. But the problem, again, is Offscreen Villainy. We see most of the deaths and tortures he commits, but the framework of the film is that he's assassinated about seven people across the globe (unseen) to take over their businesses and profit off of a World War. The actions necessary to start his global domination plot are unseen. However, given that he's seen visibly torturing Holmes with a meathook, threatens Mary Morstan's life more than once, poisons Irene Adler, and, through his right-hand man Moran, murders multiple people on-screen, this might balance out. (BTW, though Moran shows insane loyalty to Moriarty, Moriarty basically uses him as a sniper-cum-servant. No particular affections there, no care about his well-being or whatever.) I'm on the fence with this one, though I am leaning towards keep because of the sheer scale of his potential plan.

EDIT: LMAO, I just got the Perpetual Projects PM. XD

edited 25th Feb '13 10:31:09 PM by LargoQuagmire

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#8963: Feb 25th 2013 at 10:35:40 PM

[up]I just got that PM as well.

In addition to the OP, Scherzo, that's Lightysnake and Largo voting for Ryer. I'm going to stay neutral on this one for now due to my own mixed feelings. As previously mentioned, I would appreciate the input from as many forum members as possible on this one. I'm happy to answer any questions about the show or the character.

EDIT: I think I've finally hit on my issue with Ryer. It's not that he doesn't meet our criteria. It's just that in my mind, a CM should always be memorable. Ryer's such a classic General Ripper/General Failure cross that I have trouble really caring about his plotline, especially given the presence of his rival, Ginias Sahalin who is going through a very clear mental breakdown (seriously, the guy's trying to use his superweapon as a substitute for his mother. Crazy), which sort of distracts from what Ryer's doing. That said, Ryer is the most evil guy in the show, and the fact that he doesn't grab my attention the way Gihren or Azrael do really shouldn't influence my voting.

edited 25th Feb '13 11:05:50 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Shaoken (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Dating Catwoman
#8964: Feb 26th 2013 at 12:28:58 AM

Huh, I didn't get any P Ms. *sadface*

Rapid fire thoughts before I try to write more on page three of my novel:

  • Ryer, I have to vote no mostly because I had completely forgotten about him in comparison to the other villian of the show. He ordered a hospital ship to be fired on yes, but that was in retaliation for Ginias violating a cease fire his sister literally just made and firing upon the Federation. So terrible, but justifable considering that it was war and the enemy made a ceasefire to get a ship out only to break it seconds after it was made. And seeing as this is in the same continuity as the regular Mobile Suit Gundam which involved Zeon killing Millions/Billions of people it's hard to hit that level of heniousness.
  • The Sherlock Holmes examples, cut the book ones for hte reasons Largo stated, Blackwood you could make a case for keeping due to him being more personally involved in his crimes than Morarity, and cut the natter for the Big M.
  • My vote to cut all the examples listed by TV Rulz again @ 8954 except for the Alice ones, in which case ether expand the Jabberwock and Dollmaker or cut.

I'll try to come back Friday afternoon (Australia time) to give some more comments. Back to Persona3 and book writing.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#8965: Feb 26th 2013 at 12:40:03 AM

I think I might have to vote for Blackwood for being a more...personal sort of monster. He's really as bad as he can be. Moriarity is just smarter and has so much more to work with

TrollBrutal Since: Nov, 2010
#8966: Feb 26th 2013 at 12:49:03 AM

I removed a recent addition to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Casino on the basis that is a poor non-discussed example, and then linked this thread in the edit reason

The movie is about the mafia so sociopaths abound, but at the same time this makes complete monsterdom a nebulous issue per the "standards of the story"-thing

Nicky is a violent psycho, but he get a lot of Pet the Dog moments and shows regret for his mischiefs (admittedly, the later misgivings happen because he knows his reckoning is coming), so that disqualifies him. Frank Marino has shades of a Punch-Clock Villain saner than his boss and though he brutally murders Nicky, he's following orders, so the bosses are the ones to blame there. Marino also lies to protect his pals, so that's a genuine Pet the Dog there, and his Pragmatic Villainy (violence is bad for business) comes off as a moderating trait.

A case can be made for Ginger (it was removed in last edit), a sneaky one in that she doesn't kill anybody, but in a mafia movie she stands out as Abusive Parent with no Pet the dogs moments whatsoever.

The removed example seemed valid IMO (by the internal logic of the film)

edited 26th Feb '13 10:57:10 AM by TrollBrutal

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#8967: Feb 26th 2013 at 1:10:32 AM

I think that's an example of the sexism we noticed. Ginger seems to fail the heinous standard hard

TrollBrutal Since: Nov, 2010
#8968: Feb 26th 2013 at 1:18:46 AM

I see your point there, sometimes the double standard seems intentional, death and violence is almost made a cheap and casual currency, almost in Crosses the Line Twice black comedy territory, business as usual (Scorsese's trait) etc, so emotional and parental abuse is used as a counterpoint if only on a humane level, because she abuses the only innocent character in the whole movie (her daughter) and that's why she stands out in context ... But in absolute terms it certainly fails to pass the heinous bar indeed. (I forgot about that)

edited 26th Feb '13 1:32:26 AM by TrollBrutal

NativeJovian Jupiterian Local from Orlando, FL Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Maxing my social links
Jupiterian Local
#8969: Feb 26th 2013 at 6:08:15 AM

I would argue against Ryer being a complete monster. The guy's a huge dick, certainly, but he's not actively malevolent. He has a job to do: defeat Zeon. He's willing to spend the lives of his men to do so. He's undoubtedly more callous about it than is really proper, but the guy's a high-level officer in the middle of WWIII, fighting against a group of people who murdered half of humanity as their declaration of war.

What it comes down to is that Ryer never does anything that's unquestionably, unjustifiably evil. The grand total of his "crimes" are a) ordering some of his men to their deaths, and b) attacking the enemy. Admittedly, the thing that most people take exception to is the fact that he had an enemy warship destroyed while it was carrying retreating soldiers (including wounded) — but it was a warship, carrying war materiel and healthy personnel, as well as being a capable fighting unit in and of itself, in addition to the wounded. If Ryer had killed surrendering or helpless troops, then I'd agree that he was a complete monster, but that's not what happened.

Basically, Ryer's a huge asshole, and presented entirely unsympathetically, but I don't think he qualifies for Complete Monster, just because what he does honestly isn't that bad.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.
SomeNewGuy Since: Jun, 2009
#8970: Feb 26th 2013 at 6:47:03 AM

Just a heads up, a new user named Editor Pall Mall has requested the page be cut, with a rather bizarre reason.

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#8971: Feb 26th 2013 at 7:21:08 AM

Re Moriarty (from the film)- I've been wondering about him. He seems a pretty good keep, but for the fact that Moran likes/is extremely loyal to him, which might make one think there has to be something redeeming about him to earn that loyalty.

However, this really more proves that Moran isn't a Complete Monster than that Moriarty isn't, and there's no reason why a Complete Monster can't have the loyalty of someone considerably less evil (cf. Harley Quinn's immense loyalty to/love for the Joker).

I could see Blackwood being kept- seems like a case of monsters on a different scale- Blackwood is less competent than Moriarty, not less evil.

Re Milverton, that's one of those weird examples where we should ignore Word of God. Holmes and Watson (and Victorian readership) really hated blackmailers and presented them as Asshole Victims and their murderers in a sympathetic light, but there's generally not really a good objective basis for considering a blackmailer worse than a murderer.

Edit- Incidentally, the Trout Quartet really does have that bawdy double meaning (iirc Schubert was inspired by a folk song). However, while I can't be certain, I suspect that the scene may have been a Shout-Out to a similar torture scene in Reservoir Dogs which also made use of Soundtrack Dissonance.

[up] Edit 2- Let me add a wut in regard to that reason for cutlisting the trope. I think someone's probably mad they can't add Mr. Krabs.

edited 26th Feb '13 7:28:13 AM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#8972: Feb 26th 2013 at 7:29:48 AM

Double posting since there was a lot in my previous post, but Casino seems like one of those terrible misogynistic examples. There's no way that a gold digger whose a bad mother is worst than various mobsters who are brutal murderers.

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#8973: Feb 26th 2013 at 7:49:23 AM

[up][up][up] Please elaborate. What's the reason?

edited 26th Feb '13 7:53:11 AM by ACW

LargoQuagmire Since: Jan, 2010 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#8974: Feb 26th 2013 at 7:59:14 AM

[up][up][up] The thing about Moran and Moriarty in the film is that Moran goes above and beyond crazy when he thinks Moriarty's been crushed by a building. (It's that kind of movie, yeah.) Moriarty, upon being found by completely distraught Moran, basically goes, "I'M FINE GO GET SHERLOCK YOU IDIOT". Based on other trivial interactions between them, it seems like Moran has invested a lot more into his relationship with his employer than Moriarty has in his employee.

And in regards to Casino, we definitely talked about all the examples not counting, because everyone in Casino is a raging asshole/murderer/abuser. Ginger's a particularly bad example to throw out anyways, nonetheless.

edited 26th Feb '13 8:00:08 AM by LargoQuagmire

SomeNewGuy Since: Jun, 2009
#8975: Feb 26th 2013 at 7:59:46 AM

Something to with how we're "trying to make it objective", or some such. Its kinda hard to make sense of.


Total posts: 326,048
Top