During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
This thing took the form of a Bitch in Sheep's Clothing and effectively destroyed a world For the Evulz. How many monsters are defined by just doing horrible things For the Evulz?
edited 11th Jul '17 7:17:34 PM by despoa
AFAIK, yes - it's just it doesn't get brought up as much because Generic Doomsday Villain is kind of frequently misused itself.
However, I'm personally inclined to abstain from SCP candidates because it's just too confusing factoring in agency, continuity, and the heinousness standard for a loosely connected narrative framework with lots of intentional gaps.
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Wow.
edited 11th Jul '17 7:17:04 PM by nrjxll
Alright, write up time!
Lost Tapes: Charles Weatherly is the Big Bad of the poltergeist episode. Before becoming the titular poltergeist, Charles was a sadistic who murdered his wife and children before turning the knife on himself. After his death, Charles began haunting his home as a poltergeist. When the Golden family moved in, Charles began haunting their son, Troy. After an incident in which Charles pushed a bookcase on top of Troy's older sister, a paranormal investigation team was called in. When the team witnessed a sleeping Troy's stuffed panda being turned into a knife, they moved the family out of the house and began their investigation. During the investigation, Charles possessed on the investigators, demanding they leave before killing her. When the leader of the investigators, Jeremy, made it clear they weren't going to leave, he killed the other member of the team and placed his body like a statue. When Jeremy concedes after the deaths of his followers, Charles leads him to Troy's room where he stabs him to death.
I'll
Lyndon Wesley and trust this is one of the better creepypastas out there. And also
Demon!Lorie.
@DemonDuck: Just go pick up Bad Moon Rising from Comixology. It's damn near the exact same premise, but in comic book format. I really don't understand how they fucked up a movie about werewolf bikers.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I know right? Nether did I!
Okie-dokie, I think I'll be heading off to bed. But before I do, I have a few images I want to suggest. These two for The
◊ Joker
◊, this one for Space Godzilla
◊, these two for out good pal
Mr. Zsasz
◊ and finally, one for my personal favorite Unicron
◊.
edited 11th Jul '17 8:51:55 PM by UtterKoala
To Charles and Lorie Heathand
Anyway, I have another Marvel novel villain to propose, a villain who has appeared before on thread, but not very often, a sinister foe with a pension for convoluted schemes, the Big Bad of the novel X-Men: Smoke and Mirrors (which is from the same line of novels ACW proposed Carnage from):
Who is Mr. Sinister? What has he done?
For those who don't know, Mr. Sinister is an old foe of the X-Men who was a geneticist from Victorian London, who made a deal with the mutant warlord Apocalypse to gain power, including immortality and became obsessed with eugenics. Sinister betrayed Apocalypse eventually and struck out on his own.
In this novel, Sinister takes the guise of a scientist named Arnold Bocklin and claims to have invented a way to cure mutants and take away their powers. Sinister as Bocklin takes over a corporation called the Center for Genetic Improvement (CGI) and uses its labs to test his cure on mutant prisoners. The problem is the "cure" results in death 50% of the time. Sinister is intentionally covering this up and hiding this from the public.
Sinister has a mutant murder the mistress of a prominent US Senator, so that the Senator will support a bill that will make the cure mandatory for all mutants.
Sinister has a team of mercs called Black Team 51 working for him and has them kidnap some mutant teenagers in Ohio so he can experiment on them.
Also Sinister (as Bocklin) helped the Canadian government revive the Weapon X Project, with a project called "Trap Door.'' Canadian intelligence agents kidnap an Inuit woman and Sinister transformers her into a killing machine called "Mantrap" (a sort of proto version of X-23) who will kill everything she sees. Wolverine accidentally frees Mantrap while investigating Trapdoor and Mantrap goes on a killing spree across Canada and then the US, killing innocent people while searching for Bocklin, so she can kill her creator.
Anyway the X-Men manage to track Sinister to his main lab, Sinister subjects Rogue to his "cure" (Rogues manages to survive and keep her powers, despite this), with Sinister telling Rogue that he plans to use this cure to commit genocide against mutants, tried of mutants interfering with his work and believing them evolutionary false starts. He also using DNA from the mutants he "cured" to created new super humans and eventually plans to kill off humanity as well, as soon as his new super humans are perfected.
Anyway, the X-Men arrive and put a stop to Sinister's schemes, but not before Sinister's mercs manage to kill 3 of the 5 teenagers they captured. Sinister sets his lab to explode before escaping, not caring if any of his mercs die while fighting the X-Men.
Is he heinous by the standards of the work?
This is the hard part, these novels made some efforts to be in continuity with the comics at the time, there was a Daredevil novel set right after Born Again, the Spider-Man anthology "Untold Tales of Spider-Man'' mentioned where each short story was supposed to take place in continuity.
However, these novels also did their own thing they wanted to: they introduced a new intelligence called SAFE that only appeared in the novels, they gave Ultron a redeeming quality (that we wouldn't apply to comic book Ultron), had a new villain be behind the death of Peter Parker's parents, they gave Trapster a story that actually gave him character development and pathos, they gave Shocker a kid brother, they mostly ignore the clone saga, etc.
I feel like the novels will follow comic book continuity with they want it tells a good story and will stray away from comic book continuity when they think that will tell a good story.
Its not like fans or writers or Marvel will consider these novels canon and Sinister has crimes that are unique to this novel. I think considering this a separate medium from the comics, novel Sinister can get his own write up.
Now these novels are in continuity with each other and these novels Maestro was planning to use an army of alternate timeline Hulks to destroy humanity, MODOK 1.5 as going to use his mental powers to destroy humanity, Baron Strucker turned a device that created clean power into a death ray and wanted to wipe cities off of the map etc.
But not all villains aimed so high, especially in the X-Men novels, Magneto wanted to reprogram the Sentinels to take over NYC and use it as a haven for mutants, Mojo secretly runs a private prison for the US government (he is also kidnapping teenagers and planning to turn them into psychopaths) in order to get money from the US government and sell footage of prisoners fighting each other and getting executed for fun and profit, Sauron tries to take over the Savage Land in one novel.
I think Sinister is just more methodical then villains like Maestro, Strucker, Modok 1.5, etc He is working slowly towards a goal other villains want to achieve quickly, planning to kill offf mutants and eventually humanity slowly rather then quickly.
Between attempted genocide, turning innocent people into killing machines (and being responsible for those killed by them) and being responsible for the death of a couple of children, this Sinister is pretty vile, one his more evil adaptions in other media.
Any Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
I don't think so, this is Sinister we are talking about.
The book when talking about Sinister's back story, mentions that the death of his wife and child "destroyed his humanity'' the problem is they died a 150 years ago and he never mentions them, they do not inform his motives, he is committing genocide to further his eugenics experiments, it has nothing to do with his wife or kid, I don't think he cares about them any more.
Rogue thinks Sinister might have a demented, but scrupulous sense of fair play and Sinister inadvertently saves Rogue's life when he tells her his pet theory that mutants choose to be mutants and choose their powers on a subconscious level, which allows Rogue to reject the cure through will power. Rogue also thinks Sinister is an inhuman monster incapable of mercy, so I am not sure I should take her conflicted thoughts seriously.
I don't think that was Sinister's intentions, Sinister intends to subject Rogue to his cure again, saying she will not be so lucky a second time. He also says he will allow all the X-Men to leave if they take his cure, but intents to keep Cyclops and Gambit as prisoners indefinitely, which does not seem fair to me. Frankly I don't think any of Sinister's actions in this novel are even remotely fair.
Final Verdict?
I think he counts.
Edit: Sorry if that was long, but I thought the continuity issues with the novels were necessary to address.
edited 12th Jul '17 11:07:29 AM by Overlord
Sinister. Man, a name like that has Obviously Evil written all over it.
Sinister
Anyways, I have a possible contender here: Zenos yae Galvus from Final Fantasy XIV. I haven't played the game, but from what I've heard, he's a pretty nasty bad guy. Up there with some of Final Fantasy's worst.
Ever since Kil'jaeden got cut I've been looking at a compatriot of his that actually got worse in hindsight with new information presented in the Legion expansion. I'm probably going to wait until the next major patch before effort posting him, but I do think Archimonde makes the cut given new information the expansion gave about his background.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Sinister
- Werewolves on Wheels: One is a cult leader who claims to speak for Satan himself. When a biker gang arrives near his compound, One has them drugged so he can sacrifice a female member to be Bride of Satan. During the sacrifice ritual, One stabs a cat to death. After the gang rescue her, he places a lycanthropy curse on his victim, which she then passes onto her boyfriend. After the werewolves kill a few of the gang members, one tormenting a psychic member of the gang all the while, the rest are forced to kill them. They then go to confront One, who steals the male werewolf's body, sacrifices the female as planned and makes the rest into his mind slaves.
edited 11th Jul '17 10:31:16 PM by DemonDuckofDoom
Anyways, I think I'm going to have to say "nay" to Sinister... the notion that the death of his family destroyed his humanity implies he had the potential to have been a much better person had his family not have died, and regardless of how they do or don't affect him in the present day, I'm not comfortable saying yes.
This is when I think a Freudian Excuse matters. Compare Lotso when it's made clear that he abandoned Daisy when he had a valid opportunity to reunite with her. Lotso chose his path, in this case... I can't really find myself applying that to Sinister.
edited 11th Jul '17 11:37:12 PM by Scraggle
MA-X writeup: would do Koutei's but he only has four votes as of now. More would be appreciated.
Bomberman Jetters: MA-X, Mechadoc's final creation, manages to be nearly as bad as his creator. Willingly going along with his plan of colliding two planets, killing millions of people, he develops a strong hatred and rivarly to one of Mechadoc's old prototypes, Zero. This comes to a head at the end of the series, where he abadons his creator to kill Zero. At the end of this fight, MA-X performs his worst deed of his own accord; once Zero and him are dying, he writes his own data into Zero so he can hijack Zero's body, forcing Shirobon to kill Zero, one of his friends, to permanently eliminate MA-X. Despite not coming close to Mechadoc in his resources, he makes a name for himself in the series and manages to be nearly as vile.
And yes, Koutei's imprisonment of his minions is made obvious as to how bad it is. It's hard to pull off trapping people floating eternally in space with no escape without it being horrifying, to be honest.
an easy
to her. Those poor slaves...
edited 12th Jul '17 12:02:10 AM by MahStache
A late 'Yes' to Charles, and the same for Lyndon and MA-X.
Need to think on Sinister. That note about the death of his family.....tricksie one.
Anywho, moving on from my Bentley Little candidates, what say we all to a good old fashioned comic book candidate? This....PROBABLY won't be the only proposal from this comic, but for now, this one stands out the most to me, so let's get it on.
What's the work?
Witchblade was a long-running comic that thrived on fanservice, both in the action department, and the scantily-clad heroine who they made sure was plastered on nearly every cover of every issue.
Our story follows the titular Witchblade, an ancient gauntlet that attahes itself to a woman every few decades, and uses heas its host, enabling the woman to suit up in a super armor that oh-so-conveniently exposes 80% of their bodies, and the females summarily use their new powers to kick ass at volley ball fight the forces of evil.
The Witchblade switches hands a couple times throughout the original comic, and while several villains exist across the story, there is one who stands out above the rest....and suprisingly, ISN'T the Big Bad Kenneth Irons. But rather.....
Who is she?
Madeline Desormeaux is a minor Arc Villain serving as the main antagonist of two issues. But oh what an impression she makes.
What has she done?
Decades ago, Madeline married a wealthy plantation owner, and, after said owner met an unfortunate "accident", Madeline took over as mistress of the house.
Madeline ran the plantation with an iron fist and a leather whip, with all the slaves around the premises knowing nad fearing her.....but not JUST because of her bossy behavior. No, the slaves feared her because they knew that, if you caught her eye, you would be brought her into house....where you will never return.
Turns out, Madeline had a....character flaw, we'll say, that made her regularly select one or two slaves from the plantation, then take them to her homemade torture chamber, where she performed truly....horrific atrocities on them.
Using everything from meat hooks to hacksaws, Madeline's favorite method of torture was....SEWING!
Despite how silly that might sound, I can assure you, it's anything but. We get a lovely little abattoir of just a few of Madeline's victims, with two having had their arms stitched to one another's, another two having had their thighs stiched to their lower legs and their heads stitched together, and one having had his hands lopped off, his stumps stitched together, then locked in an iron mask with his hands on display right in front of him.
For those who wish to see a more detailed example of these, here's a pic displaying her backstory and tortures
◊. Warning though, MAJORLY NSFW.
Madeline's torture went on for a long while, racking up a huge amount of torture and murder, until one day, after stitchinga little boy's eyes and mouth shut, Madeline slips up, resulting in the boy escaping and wandering into a nearby town, where the townsfolk promptly realize what has happened and march onto Madeline's land, though the woman herself mysteriously disappeared before they arrived.
Some say she later returned to her old house, and lived there the rest of her days until she died....
Now the present, our hero of this arc, current Witchblade wielder Dani Baptiste, is plagued with horrifying nightmares displaying Madeline's atrocities, and, after consulting with a voodoo priestess, Dani heads out to the Desormeaux estate to investigate the source of her dreams.
Once there, Dani discovers the terrifying revelation that all of Madeline's victims have been cursed by the woman herself to perpetually wander the lands as decomposing zombies, unable to move on to the rother side until their former mistress is put down for good.
Dani heads into the house and confronts Madeline, still alive seemingly for no reason other than her own wickedry keeping her going, and the psycho woman pronounces her plans to rip out Dani's tongue then spend LOTS of time torturing for daring to "fraternize with the filth" that is her former slaves.
Luckily, Dani is a freaking SUPERHERO, and casually curbstomps Madeline before dragging her out to her victims, tossing her into the midst of them where she is summarily ripped apart bytheir eager claws, with Madeline dying screaming for the slaves to keep their "dirty hands" off her.
Madeline is finally killed, and all her victims are finally able to dissipate and move on to the other side, and Dani departs to continue her....Witchblade-ing.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Nada. Madeline is a depraved sadist who tortured and murdered her slaves for no apparent reason other than because they were "filth", and because she was just EVIL. That's.....about it.
Heinousness?
Madeline BLOWS past the heinous standard. Even most of the Big Bads don't come close to approaching Madeline's sheer sadism and horrific rapsheet.
Final Verdict?
Easy Keep.
edited 11th Jul '17 11:56:33 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!

@UtterKoala I know.