During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
It's not a matter of being badly written. It's the fact the Grinch can in no way, shape, form or manner possibly count.
Sigh
and here's another set of bad ones of just people being mean
The Grinch entry was added by CaptainColdCutCliche
, while the Mama's Family example was added by Mirror Noir
.
Both entries should be cut, and the editors PM'd.
edited 27th Jun '17 8:51:33 AM by chasemaddigan
I remember being curious about Injustice!Grodd when I talked with Polar Phantom a while back. I'll give him a yes.
Hey guys! Haven't recommended anything in while. You miss me? Probably not.
Anyway
Time for a another Transformers recommendation.
Alright, let's try this again.
What is the work?
Dreamwave's run on the Transformers: Generation One comics started 2002. It wasn't good...like...at all. The company's habit of not playing its employees didn't help the comic's run. But we're no here to talk about that, we're to talk about this baddie.
Who is he?
Adam Rook, a.k.a. Lazarus, was originally an engineer working for General Robert Hallo, he was hired to create an army of shapeshifting robot soldiers. He called it the Lazarus Project. However, despite high resources and staff, the project was a failure. Well...until Hallo decided to take advantage of the recently victorious Autobots...
What did he do?
With a plan in action, Rook developed a control program that could wipe free will of transformers, leaving them as nothing but unthinking soldiers. After Hallo (who I will be recommending next by-the-by) blew up the Ark ll, leaving the Autobots in a comatosed state in the Arctic Ocean. Rook, realizing he could have an army of giant robots, took his control program and disappeared.
After taking the alias Lazarus, his failed project, Rook began retrieving and reactivating the comatosed Cybertonians. Over the course of four years, he built a successful criminal empire, selling Transformers to dictators and terrorist so they could crush their enemies without heavy casualties on their side. He would sometimes take his..."customers", on tours of his base, forcing the brainwashed transformers to do things like kneel for him to show his control over them.
During an auction, Lazarus demonstrated the power of his robot army by having them slaughter an oil refinery. After everyone in the refinery was dead, Lazarus, completely unaffected by what he just did, began to casually bid for the transformers under his possession. Thankfully, Megatron, who was shown to be fighting his brainwashing through sheer force of will, broke free from his invisible chains, chased off Rook's "customers", and captured Rook. Eventually, after freeing his fellow Decepticons, used Rook as a guinea pig for his latest virus, killing him.
Freudian Excuse or mitigating factors?
None. Rook's only real motivation was money.
Heinous Standard?
He took the free will of several transformers, including good guys like Bumblebee, Ironhide and Ratchet, and used them as pawns for dictators and terrorist. He also had them commit mass murder for a "demonstration", with no remorse. I think he reaches the standard.
Conclusion?
though of course it's your decision if he actually makes the cut.
I'm on the fence with Lazarus. Mostly because I don;t think he quite reaches the Heinous Standard (Slavery Is a Special Kind of Evil but Unicron and the Fallen might had pulled similar stunts, and their own misdeeds put them magnitudes above that in terms of scale), but also because the Dreamwave mention implies that his continuity is different from the IDW one (where The Fallen got approved), so I ask for clarification on that aspect.
Relatively speaking, he does seem to fit since he doesn't have anything outside of money and earth tech.
For now, I'll give him a
edited 27th Jun '17 10:03:37 AM by MorningStar1337
Yeah, I considered Grodd, but I ultimately didn't feel he was worth the EP.
Too much of a Second Banana.
...
Been wanting to use that one for a while.
But I don't really care that much whether Injustice!Grodd gets through. I'm an abstain there. I might change my mind when I read through the official EP again. EDIT: I believe Grodd only put a bomb in Deadshot's head. The others work with him because they believe they will have the Earth for themselves when Brainiac wins.
Some of the arcade endings are messed up, though. Like, Scarecrow is just a memorable foe in story mode, but his arcade ending has him break Brainiac with his fear toxin and then go through his collection, claiming there are "Billions" of species from "Millions" of worlds.
He goes on to subject these sunken cities to his fear toxin to become the universe's greatest master of fear.
Like, geez. That's one of the more heinous things in that game. And I'm not gonna EP him since that's all we got and the endings are explicitly non-canon, but... Geez.
edited 27th Jun '17 11:12:24 AM by PolarPhantom

Okay I have a candidate from the Injustice series.
Meet Gorilla Grodd
Who is Gorilla Grodd and what does he do?
Gorilla Grodd is a hyper intelligent gorilla, the leader of the Society and the Dragon of Braniac. Rising after the fall of Superman's Reigme, Grodd schemes to take advantage of the fall of both the Justice League and the Reigme and conquer the world. However, he is secretly in league with Braniac to destroy Earth, hiding this from other members of the Society. He sends Scarecrow to bring Fear Toxin from a swamp, but Green Arrow and Canary destroy the shipment. When the duo attack his rally, Grodd sends his minions after them, but are defeated easily. Having alerted Braniac to their arrival, Grodd stalls for time in fighting them, and when handcuffed gloats to them that he was defeated for nothing, before Arrow and Canary are teleported onto Braniac's ship.
Braniac then launches a full scale invasion of Earth. As the Flash speeds across the world, Grodd orders his minions to interfere getting Heaven knows how many innocent people killed in the process. The Society does not want anything to do with Grodd after they learn Braniac intends to destroy the planet, but Grodd has implanted bombs in their brains to kill them if they try to rebel. The fights with the heroes waste several hours, but Grodd is eventually summoned to Braniac's ship and is informed that the two Krypronians, Superman and Supergirl are his master's.
Grodd is eventually sent to Kahndaq, but informs Brainiac that the Society has disbanded, but tells Braniac that the Earth can go to hell. Braniac supplies him with Arrow, Canary, and dozens of apes, all of which Grodd puts them under his control and orders them to attack Aquaman and Black Adam, and he makes it clear that he is willing to sacrifice them. He also admits he has no loyalty to anyone, but himself through his pawns and will turn on Braniac the second he finds the alien's weakness. Having somehow kidnapped Blue Beetle, he puts the hero under his control, using as a sleeper agent to find the Rock of Eternity. After he gets in to the cave holding it, he reveals himself and orders Beetle to kill the two, and speaking through him, makes it clear he will kill the boy and take the Scarab to use for his own benefit. After Beetle's defeat, the duo battle Grodd and after they beat him, Aquaman impales him with his trident. He gloats as he is dying that Braniac cannot be stopped. In his Arcade Ending,( which I believe is non canon) he kills Braniac, allowing him to enslave humanity and conquer the galaxy.
Is he heinous by the standards of the story?
Grodd easily goes past the heinous standard. While most of Brainiac's minions are possessed or brainwashed,( I cant tell which one it is), Grodd is serving the alien willingly. When his master launches his invasion, Grodd uses the bombs he placed in the Society's heads to fight the heroes, wasting several hours and getting millions of people murdered by Brainiac's drones. It is also made very clear that Grodd has absolutely no loyalty to anyone aside from himself and will turn on his master when he finds the alien's weakness. His racisim of humans is so intense that he is completely fine with the world being destroyed as long as he can gain power.
He stands out from Joker in that while Joker just killed people for a laugh, Grodd is motivated by racisim and a desire to gain power. He also stands out from his master in that while Brainaic destroys planets to get their knowledge, Grodd is completely fine with Earth being destroyed if it means he gains additional power making him every bit the Omnicidal Maniac his master is. Forcing the Society to fight the heroes got millions of people killed, and he shows he does not care about his fellow gorillas. So he easily stands out.
Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits?
Grodd doesn't have a Freudian Excuse. He is motivated entirely by his desire for power or for his racism towards humans. He sold the Earth out to Brainiac just to get more power and planned to betray him later. As for any redeeming traits, Grodd doesn't have any traits that redeem him. The only reason he is in charge in the first place is because in the animal kingdom the strongest rules. He knew that the apes would be easily crushed by Aquaman and Black Adam, as we see several of them get killed, but very happily sacrificed them all the same.
Final Thoughts?
Well selling the Earth out to someone who wants to destroy the planet, putting bombs in your minions heads and then forcing them to fight the heroes which gets millions of innocent people killed and doing this willingly, and making it clear you don't care if Earth gets destroyed if you can fulfill your racism against humans and planning to turn on your master to gain further power sounds very evil, even in this universe. So Grodd seems like a keeper.
Well that is Grodd. Do you think he is an evil monster?
edited 27th Jun '17 8:28:59 AM by hopeshalllive