During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Comic!Dylan. BTW, not that this affects Dylan, but we DO have the film version of The Fallen.
Gould.
How dare he be mean to Rosie Huntington Whiteley, she was in Fury Road in the future 3 years after Dark Of The Moon so he couldn't have known where was I going with this.
We can probably just list it under the other comics and say it's an adaptation of Bayformers 3.
edited 25th Jun '17 5:15:58 PM by PolarPhantom
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I don't think that's necessary right now.
Comic!Dylan Gould and Dev Tarrant.
Dylan in the film also doesn't count because he has a small Pet the Dog moment in promising Sam that if he does as he's told, Carly won't be harmed. If that was in the comic too, he can't count there either.
If it's not, then
. Also, the film version of Dylan did use to count at one point in case anyone remembers.
I think he was mainly cut because he seemed more like a Dirty Coward who sided with the Decepticons for the sake of saving his own ass. In the comic version, he willingly joined the Decepticons and had them attack Chicago; in the film he had no idea they planned on invading the city.
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While that specific scene of him promising Carly won't be hurt isn't in the comic, eveb if it WERE, it still wouldn't be disqualifying. Dylan is a consummate liar. It's practically in his job description, and at that point in the film, he was doing whatever it took to get Sam to do what he wanted.
Dylan doesn't give two craps about Carly in ANY of the media except as some creepy "pet" he can boast his plans to. Film!Dylan was cut SOLELY because, in the end, he was played as a slimy weasel in way over his head in allying with the Decepticons, and hardly even of his own accord. Nothing about Carly was the reason he was cut, nor should it have been.
Hence, as Tyk said, why Comic!Dylan counts. He gets that extra bit of backstory that reveals his willingness and eagerness in helping the 'Cons, and his FAR more sadistic and active role in the Chicago invasion
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!![]()
The film made me think Dylan was both a Dirty Coward and willing participant, especially with suggesting they target civilians to draw them out or something (its been a few years). I still think he's awful enough to count, but his promising Carly's safety if Sam does what they want is what gives me pause.
By the way, a very late
to The Fallen and a very late and enthusiastic
to Attinger.
edited 25th Jun '17 8:58:04 PM by futuremoviewriter
Definite yes to Comic!Gould. Funny thing: I'm in the minority who actually believes that his movie incarnation DOES count. After recently seeing the movie I thought about making a case for him, but eh. Everyone's made up their minds and I'm okay with that. And besides, there are better hills to die on than arguing for a Bayformers candidate.
...Despite my unkind words just then though, I actually quite liked the third movie, strangely enough. I think a big part of it was due to Leonard Nimoy stealing the show as Sentinel Prime. Really good performance and villain I'd say, huge step over the Fallen whose only real saving grace was Tony Todd's awesome voice.
edited 25th Jun '17 8:59:31 PM by FriedWarthog
Nimoy was Galvatron in the original Transformers movie, did you know? And his boss, Unicron (in his first appearance) was a by then utterly disgraced Orson Welles, who didn't even know the character's name (he described the role as "A big toy that ate a bunch of small toys") and died shortly after.
edited 25th Jun '17 9:00:13 PM by HamburgerTime
Personally, I think Sentinel Prime actually counts and him being a Well-Intentioned Extremist is utter bunk when he's ranting about how he'll be the 'one god' left.
Okay, maybe the Pet the Dog wasn't so much that after all. Then I think the fact that so much of what Sentinel and Megatron were able to do was thanks to Dylan who didn't give a crap about anyone else is pretty heinous in itself and I don't think Attinger's evil overshadows it.
to Dylan! I move to reinstate him.
As surprising as it may be, Dark of the Moon is actually my favorite of the Bayformers films. I mean, I'd still only give it, like, a 7/10, but I found it entertaining enough, and the Chicago sequence was quite enjoyable IMO.
Oh, and having recently researched the Dark of the Moon film, novels, and comics, I'm actually completely open to discussion on film Sentinel Prime. His comic version definitely doesn't, but his film one? I would be interested in that one.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Well if people are willing, I'll see about getting a Sentinel Prime effortpost up tomorrow. Meanwhile, I'll get to work on reading the wiki (I'm not lying about having seen the movie, but last time I watched it was months ago and I currently don't have the means to rewatch it) and consulting Lightysnake and Ravok as well.
