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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#87927: Jun 24th 2017 at 7:05:31 PM

[tup]Ahmanet.

Anyways, I'd like to bring this up for a second. On The Night Gwen Stacy Died, there's this entry:

  • Complete Monster: The Green Goblin established himself as a completely monstrous individual with this story. As if killing poor Gwen wasn't enough, the Goblin completely mocks the value of her life. The point is driven home when the Goblin gets completely pissed after Spidey (supposedly) destroys his glider, and starts to cry even harder for revenge. Spidey calls him out for acting in such an entitled way when he just killed his girlfriend. The Goblin then says the little chestnut of calling Gwen "a simpering, pointless girl who never did more than occupy space". Cue Spider-Man beating the crap out of him.

While I know Norman's considered a CM and all, wasn't that only after his resurrection in the 90's? His pre-90's self was still considered a Tragic Villain at that point, wasn't he?

Why so serious?
SumDumNerd LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED from [REDACTED] Since: May, 2017 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
LOCKDOWN PROCEDURES ENGAGED
#87928: Jun 24th 2017 at 7:07:59 PM

Hey all,

Real quick: does anyone know where Dr. Malbarn got placed in the CM lists? I don't see his entry in the Literature section.

Thanks.

edited 24th Jun '17 7:08:16 PM by SumDumNerd

Read Slender Man vs Siren Head 2: The Foundation here
TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#87929: Jun 24th 2017 at 7:30:01 PM

[tup] to Ahmanet. She is definitely not as sympathetic as the writers intended, it's not like Lotso and Koba where their backstories were legitimately sympathetic, but their actions over the course of the story diluted it, she just got snubbed for the throne. That's it. They try and make her seem sympathetic by bringing sexism into it and it does not work. My reaction to them going there was very much like Doug Walker with the whole "Captain Planet talking about AIDS" thing, the writers clearly had no clue what they were talking about and it just didn't feel like the right movie to discuss these issues.

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
#87930: Jun 24th 2017 at 8:34:52 PM

I can feel a little sorry; being led to believe that you'll be ruler and then thrown aside is kinda shitty, but she could easily have arranged to be made reagent. Instead she damns the whole world

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#87931: Jun 24th 2017 at 8:39:29 PM

'Yes' to the hot, evil Mummy villainess.

I'll have a rather.....interesting, to say the least, candidate coming up in the next hours. Could end up quite.....annoying for some. [lol]

In the meantime? Here's Dark Kat.

Who is he?

Dark Kat, the SWAT Kats Arch-Enemy alongside Dr. Viper.

Dark Kat is a madman obsessed with nothing less that the complete destruction of Megakat City and the SWAT Kats, no matter the consequences.

What has he done?

In his premiere episode, "The Wrath or Dark Kat", Dark Kat leads an assault on a government facility, assaulting and likely killing many guards, in order to steal a nuclear warhead.

After capturing Lt. Feral, the head of Megakat police, Dark Kat plans to have Feral watch as he uses the nuclear weapon to incinerate Megakat City and all of its inhabitants, after which he will kill Feral himself, but luckily, the SWAT Kats intervene and manage to both rescue Feral and thwart Dark Kat's scheme, leading him to flee.

In his next appearance, "Night of the Dark Kat," Dark Kat arranges the escape of electrical villain Hard Drive, and, cowing him into submission under threat of sealing him away in a bottle, Dark Kat uses him to capture the SWAT Kats, strapping them to a conveyor belt to be crushed by a meat grinder.

Meanwhile, Dark Kat has Hard Drive use the SWAT Kats' jet to lay waste to Megakat City, opening fire on civilians and blowing up entire buildings, effectively framing the SWAT Kats for the chaos just in case they escape the meat grinder (They do).

Dark Kat plans to extort Megakat City of all its funds slowly by threatening to have "his" SWAT Kats destroy more of the city the longer the mayor refuses to pay him, until the SWAT Kats manage to take down Hard Drive and recover their jet, leaving Dark Kat seething.

In the first season finale, "Katastrophe," Dark Kat allies with Dr. Viper to destroy the SWAT Kats once and for all, enlisting the androids known as the Metallikats for assistance.

Though the Metallikats intially refuse to help, Dark Kat reveals he has installed neuro chips into their mechanics, and uses this to send shocks of agony through the duo until they agree to assist him. Dark Kat proclaims that once the SWAT Kats are captured, the quartet will split Megakat City up betweenst themselves.

Luring the SWAT Kats to an abandoned factory, Dark Kat, Viper, and the Metallikats trap them, alongside Deputy Mayor Callie Briggs and Lt. Feral, in a forcefield.

Dark Kat then reveals that he has no intention of sharing Megakat City, as he orders the Metallikats to murder Viper for him, however Viper and the Metallikats anticipated this and removed the latter's neuro chip-thingies.

The ensuing fight leads the SWAT Kats to escape, after which they manage to trap Dark Kat, Viper, and the Metallikats in their own forcefield. At which point Dark Kat goes "NOPE" and activates a self-destruct seauence in an attempt to kill himself, his "teammates", and the SWAT Kats in one fell swoop, though the SWAT Kats escape, saving Callie and Feral in the process.

Seeing as this was just the finale for Season ONE, the writers figured "Eh, we can bring 'em all back", so all the baddies survive the event as well.

His first appearance in Season 2 coming in the episode "Razor's Edge," Dark Kat arranges for two of his servants to disguise themselves as innocent citizens, then frame the SWAT Kats for injuring the duo in combat, hoping to cause the SWAT Kats considerably despair for accidentally injuring someone.

In the meantime, Dark Kat creates a monstrous spider robot that he plans to use to drain all of the power out of Megakat City, then sic the machine onto the entire city and watch as it tears Megakat City apart, but unfortunately for Dark Kat, the SWAT Kats discover he framed them for hurting the civilians, and they promptly manage to destroy his spider bot.

In his final appearance in the series, "The Dark Side of the SWAT Kats," an alternate reality version of Dark Kat is revealed to have enlisted the SWAT Kats, evil in this alternate universe, into assisting him in regularly attacking Megakat City and the like, with Dark Kat's latest scheme involving using a Mega-Detonator to blow up the entirety of Enforcer HQ (Basically the equivalent of Megakat City's police + army force) and wipe out all the cops and soldiers who stand against him.

When the REAL SWAT Kats show up in this alternate dimension, Dark Kat at first belueves they are his SWAT Kats, before soon realising the trutb and attempting to have them killed, after which he makes one ladt attempt to blow up Enforcer Headquarters before the SWAT Kats thwart this plan and travel back to their home dimension.

And...that's it, no more of Dark Kat. Darn shame Karma Houdini(s), eh....

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

None. Dark Kat is a total sociopath with insane plans of either conquest, or annihilation constantly on his mind.

Heinousness?

Stands out alongside Viper and Mutilor as the worst in the series. While other villains try things like attempting to destroy Megakat City, Dark Kat has some of the most attempts of any villain, and his extra acts of cruelty, like forcing Feral to watch as he wipes out the city or torturing the Metallikats into servitude, and ESPECIALLY his attempt to blow up all of his allies plus the SWAT Kats and others definitely puts him over the line of other baddies.

Final Verdict?

A pretty cut and paste Keeper, I'd say.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#87932: Jun 24th 2017 at 8:42:31 PM

I say Dark Kat's a yea. That should do it for SWAT Kats.

edited 24th Jun '17 8:43:27 PM by Scraggle

toonyloon Since: Jul, 2011
#87933: Jun 24th 2017 at 8:59:21 PM

I gotta say, I find it interesting how Swat Kats managed to stay under the thread's radar for so long. [tup] Dark Kat.

edited 24th Jun '17 8:59:33 PM by toonyloon

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#87934: Jun 24th 2017 at 9:11:31 PM

[tup] Dark Kat, Kawahara, Twirltongue, Helspont, Viper, Snare, Ahmanet

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#87936: Jun 24th 2017 at 10:00:29 PM

[tup] Dark Kat

I'll have one or two proposals tonight.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#87937: Jun 24th 2017 at 10:16:23 PM

Even if I'd seen the movie (which I may at one point or another), the fact that the writers intended for Ahmanet to be tragic gives me pause and makes me reluctant to say yes to her. That said, I think of how Deniro's Max Cady claimed he was only after Bowden because he let him purposely get sent to prison rather than defending him the way he should have, but then does so many hateful things like rapes the clerk he works with, kills Kersek and Graciela and plans to rape Leigh and Danielle (when rape is what got him locked up in the first place), that he comes across as an utter hypocrite who just likes hurting people and much like with it seems to be in Ahmanet's case, it's such a thin excuse that it's nullified.

With that, I'll say [tup].

Ekimmak Since: Nov, 2010
#87938: Jun 24th 2017 at 10:34:18 PM

So, the two week rule.

Does that count from early access, or the official launch?

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#87939: Jun 24th 2017 at 10:37:01 PM

[tup] Ahmanet, [tup] Dr. Viper and Dark Kat

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#87940: Jun 24th 2017 at 10:40:25 PM

Official launch. USA specifically(well, generally, we go with that. There's some cases where it will never got a USA launch and we go with a different date due to that. Rare exceptions may apply).

Shadow?
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#87941: Jun 24th 2017 at 11:17:41 PM

New proposal, from The Eye Sees.

This is a short EP, due to the story being about 8 pages.

Who's the candidate?

Ganza, a mercenary hired to make a small nation's civil war worse.

What does he do?

Ganza decides to escalate the war by getting the US involved via the assassination of their ambassador and his daughter. His plan to do so? Blow up the US consulate, and make it look like a nearby bombing raid did it, disregarding any collateral damage.

While he and his men take a break from planting the bombs, one of them sees the Eye watching them from the shadows. Ganza sees nothing, and guns down his henchman ''for seeing something that wasn't there!'' Talk about Evil Is Petty...

Anywho, our baddies finish planting the explosives and decide to celebrate. Little do the Mooks know that Ganza poisoned their wine, due to them finishing their job and him not wanting to share the money. Ganza then notices a bombing happening and pulls the explosives switch. Little did he know, the Eye fiddled with the wiring in such a way that ''he'' got blown up instead.

Heinousness?

Highest bodycount, attempted or successful. His employers are non-entities.

Mitigating factors?

He mentions wanting to get out of that wartorn hellhole, but mentions it in the same breath as his fabulous wealth. Everything else indicates that he's motivated entirely by Greed.

Verdict?

[tup]

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#87942: Jun 24th 2017 at 11:42:43 PM

Okay, so...confession time. I kinda screwed up with Edward Kelley from Nioh.Iaculus pointed out something I missed from his character profile: "The Character Directory says that 'Kelley was a homunculus born through alchemical techniques. The Kelley that came to Japan was nothing more than a vessel created by John Dee. Back in the Tower of London, countless other Kelleys await their turn to awaken."

Indicating he is indeed more artificial than anything....mea culpa, guys.

That said? I think we can make a solid case for his master, who doesn't have these issues.

So, who's the Big Bad of Nioh?

John Dee, also in a Historical Villain Upgrade is a sinister alchemist and sorcerer. Kelley's creator, who seeks to make England the dominant force in the world with the power of the mystical energy Amrita, harvested from human suffering.

When the game begins, Dee is dealing with a lot of loose ends...namely while he's busy torturing everyone involved in the first stage of the Amrita project to death, with ample on-screen evidence of how awful this is in the Tower of London. Our hero, William Adams escapes this fate, only becoming aware of Kelley himself.

Now, Dee is the originator of the Amrita experiments, which by nature, involve death on a grand scale. He's also the one who perfected them, and sends Kelley to Japan to harvest the Amrita, putting all of the death and destruction on Kelley himself. In other words, Dee creates a sentient WMD, and sends it to Japan with the instructions of "yo, fuck these people up to harvest all their soul energy and don't come back till you've killed like half the country"...it's not as focused as Kelley, but when you put Kelley there...in addition, the new revelations make this kind of sinister, as Dee uses the Kelleys as disposable fodder and just transfers the personality to a new one when the old one dies, while using the mindless bodies as shields when the going gets tough...kinda disturbing.

Now, when Kelley is dead and William learns of Dee's involvement, it's implied strongly things were tense between Dee and Queen Elizabeth who for some reason didn't approve of his "let's murder countless people to steal their souls and turn our people into badass monsters to dominate the world" plan, resulting in the hints Dee may kind of sort of been responsible for her death. Not confirmed and offscreen, but just saying.

And in the grand list of evil crimes, when William visits Dee's labs at the end of the game, so we can add 'turned people into grotesque demons For Science! on an industrial scale' to the list of evil crimes. He's been experimenting on people. A lot, in ways that are neither pretty, safe, nor ethical.

Now, at the game's end, William confronts Dee who tries to convince William to join him so they can dominate the world together. William refuses, so Dee absorbs the Amrita to become a giant monster to fight him. Because William is a god-tier badass at this point, he wins, resulting in a helpless human Dee...and William slices his sword across Dee's eyes, the source of his power, blinding him and destroying Dee's ambitions and power for good, in one hell of a Cruel Mercy, leaving him alive to see the permanent collapse of his ambitions

Redeeming Qualities?

No. Dee claims to be looking out for England, but in reality, it's a way to gather power for himself and contrasts with far more well intentioned villains like the expansion's Maria. The implications Dee murdered the queen for not going along with it and harvesting Amrita for himself, while attempting to rule the country from the shadows speaks for itself. Pass.

Freudian Excuse?

None.

Heinousnes?

Easily over the baseline with abominable experiments, mass torture, the creepy creation of sentient, expendable flesh puppets to die for him and sending Kelley to Japan to mass-slaughter and take all the Amrita he can. Now, Kelley's crimes are a bit more personal, but he's a weapon Dee turned loose.

Conclusion?

Kelley's replacement.

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#87943: Jun 25th 2017 at 12:01:16 AM

From what I remember of SWAT Kats, [tup] for Dr. Viper and Dark Kat.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87945: Jun 25th 2017 at 12:43:11 AM

Clown-Face: Yeah, cut that.

SDN: It's going this week. How is that novel BTW?

Ravok: Well, look who plays her! P.S. I must see Atomic Blonde.

[tup] Dark Kat; Ganza (assuming he has enough personality); Sir John Dee.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#87946: Jun 25th 2017 at 12:46:00 AM

[tup] on Dee. Does that mean Edward will no longer be a CM?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#87947: Jun 25th 2017 at 12:47:51 AM

First Rose, then The High Priestess, and now Ahmanet. This year is turning out to be goldmine for monstrous female villains, isn't it?

Perhaps Ahmanet may be an example of a villain ending up as a CM due to poor writing than sheer menace, but simple fact of the matter is that her crimes and high bodycount have set a high heinous standard for Universal's Dark Universe. Her Freudian Excuse of sexism doesn't hold up either, especially since she proceeds to wipe out the family she claims to "love" and has Omnicidal Maniac tendencies. A big [tup] to her.

Kawahara, Dee, Dark Kat, and Snare get my [tup] too.

edited 25th Jun '17 12:52:46 AM by sanfranman91

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#87948: Jun 25th 2017 at 2:12:57 AM

[up] Let's not forget Cipher, she might not be the most horrifying, but I remember the debate being pretty hefty to say the least.

I also think Rose is a masterclass in how to do twist villains right and as someone who isn't a fan of twist villains, I don't say that lightly. She continues to be more fleshed out even after her true colours are revealed, making her a lot more creepy as a result.

edited 25th Jun '17 2:13:24 AM by TellAll111

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#87949: Jun 25th 2017 at 3:02:45 AM

Don't also forget about Apollyon which I can finally say to be the greatest female CM... no the greatest female villain in Video Game History by far (in my opinion at least)

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#87950: Jun 25th 2017 at 3:49:18 AM

Yes to Ahmanet but the movie was horrible; I literally went out of theaters in the middle of the movie because I couldn't watch it.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!

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