During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Anyways, new post... my other latest candidate, Helspont, is at the end of last page for those unaware, but there's another one I want to get up tonight. For those who remember a bit back, Lighty got up a candidate from this awesome show called SWAT Kats. Mutilor, specifically, a one-shot baddie. Me and Ravok have two more candidates from this series, both part of the show's diverse line of rogues. I'll skip the setting since Lighty already introduced us, so let's get right to the good part... Enter Dr. Viper.
Who is Dr. Viper? What has he done?
Evil biochemist. Mad scientist extraordinaire. One of the most evil villains to ever plague the ever-turbulent Megakat City, the sinister Doctor Viper started out as a normal cat named Elrod Purvis, a greedy scientist who, alongside his much more level-headed colleague Dr. Zyme, created a formula that would later be known as the Viper Mutagen. This formula initially seemed to restore wilted plantlife... however, they had sinister, mutative side effects neither Zyme nor Purvis was aware of. Purvis, eager to sell the mutagen for a hefty profit instead of allowing Zyme to sell it to the city, betrays his associate and punches him down a staircase in his attempt to steal the mutagen. However, the formula ends up spilling all over him in his frantic attempt to escape, killing him. So it seems, anyways... Purvis mutates into a horrific, snakelike creature. Purvis, nothing more than delighted with his new condition, breaks out of the local morgue and rechristens himself as the nefarious Dr. Viper, seeking to destroy Megakat City and replace it with a festering swamp of his dreams. Viper kidnaps Mayor Manx, the deputy mayor Briggs, and Zyme himself with the intent to horribly mutate them all into hybrids like himself with the Viper Mutagen. These plans are quickly dashed by the timely arrival of the Swat Kats, earning them the undying hatred of Viper from then on.
Viper returns in "The Giant Bacteria", convincing a rogue of the Swat Kats, Morbulus, to help him in his latest scheme to dominate Megakat City. What this entails for the unfortunate Morbulus, however, is his body becoming a host for Viper's latest mutagen. Viper infects Morbulus with his new formula and gleefully watches as Morbulus is painfully transformed into a horrid, snarling bacteria monster, screaming all the way until the transformation is complete. With this, Viper unleashes the Morbulus bacteria monster to devour all in its path... warming up by having Morbulus attack and devour a cow before confronting the terrified farmer himself, personally tossing the innocent man into the devouring jaws of Morbulus and later having Morbulus devour an entire train filled with innocent people on board, leaving none alive. Viper uses Morbulus to burst into the city's biochemical laboratories to steal a compound called Katalyst 99, gleefully using the opportunity to murder Zyme himself by allowing Morbulus to devour him and trying to do the same to Briggs. The Swat Kats, thankfully, manage to stop him, and Viper blows the entire lab up in his attempt to take them and Briggs out with him.
Viper's next appearance in "Destructive Nature" a few episodes later sees him entangle the new Megakat Tower with mutated plants, taking Briggs hostage and stationing his plant monsters around the building to kill all that try and stop him. Viper's endgame here is to allow a giant spore pod to burst from the top of the tower and drown the entire city and all within, reducing it to a murky wasteland of a swamp. Viper's stopped here and next arrives in "Katastrophe", where he has his latest invention devour a pair of guards and try to steal another compound from the biochemical labs. Viper's stopped by Dark Kat trying to do the exact same thing, and the two end up teaming up, even forcibly recruiting the Metallikats to the cause. Dr. Viper, however, ends up scheming against Dark Kat, and reveals when Dark Kat inevitably betrays them he's already made a deal with the Metallikats to backstab and kill Dark Kat. Ultimately, the new alliance is destroyed, and Dr. Viper executes his final scheme to take over in "Mutation City." Dr. Viper floods the entire downtown area with mutative chemicals in a bid to mutate every single person in the city, testing out his new inventions on a bunch of pet animals and letting them roam free and devour all they come across. Dr. Viper ends up turning the mutagen on himself and turning into a giant creature, rampaging across the city until the Swat Kats manage to bombard him head-on with a load of anti-mutagen, reversing everything's he's mutated in the episode. The show was cancelled before Viper could make any more appearances, but here's to hoping he appears more in the upcoming reboot.
Any mitigating factors?
No redeeming factors with Viper. He was already a greedy bastard before being turned into his Viper form, and there's no evidence whatsoever that adversely affected his sanity in any way. Admittedly, SWAT Kats has a very high heinous standard, with pretty much every bad guy getting a shot to obliterate or take over the city at some point, but Dr. Viper's schemes regularly entail mass death or mutation of innocents and his schemes have resulted in onscreen death of several innocents plenty of times... I think Viper's pretty much at the top of the standard bar Mutilor and Dark Kat himself and certainly among the absolute nastiest of the show's recurring villains.
Conclusion?
I say... keep. That's one for Frank Welker, too.
Thoughts?
edited 24th Jun '17 12:25:18 AM by Scraggle
I've played Breath Of Fire II some years ago and now I wonder how does the main villain, Deathevan, stand in terms of evilness. From what I remember and what I read up on the Wikia, Father Habaruku (the monster of the second game) is an agent of the demon. So, does that mean he fails the moral agency test? Should Deathevan replace him as the true CM of the game?
Morgenthaler told me they were going to do The Mummy today.
Deniro's version of Cady is also extremely terrifying.
Least terrifying is hard because every CM by definition is disturbing in one way or another. I would say McLeach if not for the fact that he treats animals like they're people and still sadistically kills them. I think Raphelson though since he's so passively involved in the plot even though he's responsible for everything.
edited 24th Jun '17 9:00:44 AM by futuremoviewriter
'Yes' to Helspont and Viper.
@ACW: I myself will be effortposting Dark Kat soon. If and when he ends up counting, it'll be quite the neat little occurence, as that means the three most-frequent proposers (Myself, Scraggle, and Lighty) will have each put up one CM in a trilogy of villains from the same work.
As for Bane's father....ask and ye shall receive.
Who is he?
Snare is a very minor villain in the story, but makes up for it by having a HUGE impact.
What has he done?
Snare was once a top ranking general of the first book's Big Bad, King Gorger, meaning that Snare had a large hand in Gorger's conquests that lead to much death throughout Underland.
In the present, Gregor first comes across Snare while looking for the Bane, hoping to kill him before he can amass his rat army, however Snare ambushes and attempts to murder Gregor.
Fortunately, a rat named Goldshard shows up to save Gregor, leading Snare to attempt to murder her, ending in both Snare and Goldshard's deaths.
It is at this point that Gregor notices a nearby baby....that looks exactly like the Bane was foretold to look like in the Prophecy that foretold his coming.
Now, you all know the story next. Gregor spares the Bane and tries to let him be raised normally, but by that point, it was already too late to help his mental state.
However, what you DON'T know is the later reveal of Snare's extra crimes...
Turns out, Snare was Goldshard's mate, with the HEAVY implication that he was abusive toward her.
When Goldshard gave birth to a litter of mice, Snare immediately noticed that one of them had a pure white coat and was a bit larger than the others, two signs that heavily leaned toward this baby, named Pearlpelt by Goldshard, being the legendary Bane from the Prophecy.
Now, Snare is of course aware that the Prophecy states that the Bane will rise up, amass a rat army, and lead a full-scale war against all those who refuse his rule, so of course the wise and noble person would work to prevent this.
Too bad Snare is neither, as he promptly murders the rest of his newborn litter to ensure Pearlpelt gets ALL of Goldshard's milk to himself to make sure he grows up strong. Oh, and he does it right in front of Goldshard and Pearlpelt. Note that a litter of mice in-story is at the least around a half dozen, with some litters having even more. The exact number in Snare's litter is never stated, but we're looking at the murder of at least a half dozen infant mice with his bare hands.
This is....particularly nasty, as even Ripred, a warrior rat who has seen mass murder and all sorts of the like, states that it was COMPLETELY unnecessary and uncalled for, as there were plenty of other rat families that would have taken Snare's litter in.
But see, that wouldn't work in Snare's favor as much, as following this, for the short time he has Pearlpelt, Snare beats the fastly-growing baby, and drives his violent rhetoric into the maturing boy's brain that ALL should kneel before him.
Turns out, Snare WANTS Pearlpelt to grow up to become a hateful, depraved dictator who will kill countless people, all so Snare can ride on his coattails to success and power. Beating him? Preaching violence to him? Killing his own siblings in front of him? All to make him more violent and unstable, as even infant rats have quite a bit of intelligence and CAN remember major events.
When the scenario when Gregor arrived, Goldshard was actually planning to escape Snare with Pearlpelt, but when Snare discovered it, he attacks and tries to kill Goldshard for it, ending with Snare having his throat slashed and Goldshard having her intestines spilled.
Sadly, it was too late by the time Gregor saves Pearlpelt, as he remembers EVERYTHING that happened, and as such, by adulthood (Rats age and grow up REALLY fast), he is completely insane and already a violent psychotic. And once Twirltongue shows up? Well....you know the rest.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Bwahahahahaha......no.
Snare is a vile, despicable excuse for a father with nothing driving him but power and glory.
Heinousness?
Snare has EXTREMELY little screentime. Like, if these were properly adapted films, he'd probably have about 8-10 minutes of screentime.
Thing is? In that short time, he gets one HECK of a rapsheet.
Mass murder, even of children, IS pretty common in the story, but not only does Snare have nowhere NEAR the resources of any other villains who commit mass murder, but killing your OWN LITTER? That is completely unique and treated as extremely wicked in the story, especially when it was completely unnecessary except to jack up Pearlpelt's mind.
Oh, and of note? This isn't a normal Abusive Parent situation where the parent is just a prick who beats their kid, and the kid grows up to be evil themselves just from being beat, with parent being an Unwitting Instigator of Doom.
Snare KNOWS what Pearlpelt will grow up to be, and actively WORKS to make it happen. Everything he does to Pearlpelt and his siblings is to instill a knowledge of violence and such into his son, and while Snare dies before he can see the fruits of his labor, when it comes down to it? All those mass mice gassings and countless amounts of bloodshed would never have happened if Snare wasn't the one who raised Pearlpelt. Snare turned his son into a misanthropic psycho, and would have been fully proud of that fact.
Final Verdict?
A bit of a toughie due to his limited screentime and lack of mass murder, but as I said, with his resources (Or lack thereof) plus his unique crimes of killing his own litter PLUS fully enabling and abusing Pearlpelt into becoming the Bane, I think he fulfills a nice little niche for himself.
I also find it rather humorous how the classic Evil Overlord trope, one of THE most CM-portrayed villain types, doesn't count, but rather the one who turned him into the Evil Overlord and the one who manipulated him once he WAS an Evil Overlord come much closer.
edited 24th Jun '17 9:07:29 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Among other things, I've been keeping up with Magic: the Gatherings story and new short stories are being released concerning the new expansion. Nicol Bolas is the antagonist and...wow...PM if you want to hear about a real monster.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Morgen gave me permission to handle this one, sooo...
What's the work?
The Mummy of 2017 is the ostensible first film in...The Dark Universe, the 21st century's attempt to make a whole film universe out of the universal monsters (and given the box office, we'll see if this takes...)
The Mummy features Tom Cruise as Nick, a soldier of fortune in an age when being a soldier of fortune in Mesopotamia is neither practical nor useful. And Sophia Boutella as...Ahmanet.
So, who's Ahmanet and Wha's She Do?
As seen in flashback, long ago Ahmanet was the daughter of Egypt's pharaoh, raised as his one heir and trained to follow in his footseps. Then her stepmom had a baby boy, meaning she would lose her succession to the throne. Realizing that power was taken and not given, Ahmanet did not overreact at all and summoned the God of Evil Set with a dark pact to unleash darkness upon all mankind with Set manifested in the body of a human. To seal her pact, Ahmanet murdered her father, her stepmother and then her baby brother. Before she could bring Set into the body of her Chosen, the Pharaoh's men burst in, killed him, mummified her alive and hauled her off to Mesopotamia to be imprisoned beneath the sand forever.
Tom Cruise manages to free her, just FYI. So, Ahmanet takes control of Tom Cruise's friend, has him kill the colonel on board the airplane they're on and directs a swarm of birds to burst through the cockpit, killing the soldiers on board and Tom Cruise when the plane goes down...she does, however, use her power to resurrect Tom Cruise, having decided on him as her new Chosen. Ahmanet proceeds to begin killing those she comes across, draining their life force to revitalize herself and reviving them as her zombie manservants. She immediately tries to use her ceremonial dagger on Nick to get Set going into the world, but lacking the jewel for the knife, she can't complete the ritual. Nick escapes her when a group of soldiers from a secret organization known as The Prodigium led by Russell Crowe playing Henry Jekyll (sigh)...Ahmanet's caged up and kept under lock and key, being prepared for study and dissection....Jekyll also plans to have Set manifest into Tom Cruise before destroying him to kill Set as well.
Ahmanet uses a spider to possess one Prodigium technician to free herself and proceeds to massacre everyone there. Tom Cruise and his girlfriend Jenny escape as Ahmanet goes after them (she REALLY dislikes Jenny), with Ahmanet unleashing storms upon London. She annihilates the building on top of the Prodigium's HQ (a museum, apparently), consuming multiple people in the sands, bringing down buildings, etc as she goes for where her dagger's jewel was hidden beneath London, also reviving the dead buried under the city and having them annihilate any soldiers in her way. And she also drowns Jenny as well.
With Tom Cruise brought to her, she tries to convince him to complete the ritual...Tom Cruise gets the dagger from her and stabs himself with it, actually taking control of Set within himself before he grabs Ahmanet and drains the life from her....Tom Cruise, using Set's power, revives Jenny and flees off into the desert while Ahmanet's shriveled corpse is taken by the Prodigium for safekeeping.
So, Heinous Standard?
Sizable body count and hinted omnicidal motives. Overall, she's heinous enough to count and has no real competitors yet. The film is maddeningly vague on a lot, but it's indicated by Jekyll that Set manifesting fully will result in large swaths of humanity wiped out.
Mitigating Qualities?
Ahmanet claims she loved her father. Once. Given that when she got passed over for the throne, she remorselessly murdered him, I'm skeptical. The other problem here is that while she did legitimately get screwed, the filmmakers apparently intended her to come off as a victim of circumstance. This does not. Come across. At. ALL. Her first recourse was 'make a pact with the ultimate evil to damn the entire world just so I can be king,' the film even states she just hungered for power, and while Ahmanet tries to get around this with "it was a different time," her crimes were seen as uniquely heinous at the time.
Regarding Set and Nick, Ahmanet does try to convince Nick to join her, but only seems to care for him as a vessel to her ambitions. She transfers all affection from her past Chosen right to Nick, and her surprise when her regains control of himself indicates she's lying to him a lot about ruling alongside her instead of Set. When Nick steals the knife, Ahmanet genuinely seems freaked out as she doesn't know what'll happen if he stabs himself with it..
Overall, in the film proper, Ahmanet has no real mitigating factors. Her 'care' for Nick is manipulative, designed to get him to accept Set's manifesting in him (Which STILL nearly happens), her Freudian Excuse is there but worthless due to sheer lack of proportion...I'm tempted to blame a lot of this on the film's very bad writing, but she passes.
Conclusion?
Bad movie, but a keeper overall.

Oh, and I'll give a late yea for Clampett, too.