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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#87051: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:59:54 AM

[tup] to Tyrannus. Somehow I forgot to respond to that.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#87052: Jun 15th 2017 at 12:07:18 PM

[tup] Tyrannus

I'm guessing someone really wants Turbo to be this trope, huh?

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#87053: Jun 15th 2017 at 1:20:21 PM

[tup] Tyrannus

[tdown] Nameless god

[down] I'll give Tristam and Astarte both[tup]

edited 15th Jun '17 2:29:05 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#87054: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:23:58 PM

[tup] to Tyrannus.

Well that's six [tup] to Doctor Tristam and four [tup] to Astarte.

Are their any more votes?

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#87055: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:41:41 PM

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse or maybe I'm really the first one to have noticed it just now. Regarding Super Buu from DBZ, is it a sufficient enough Pet the Dog moment or is it just a whim on Buu's part, giving Gotenks and Trunks 1 hour because Videl wants him too?

edited 15th Jun '17 2:42:03 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#87056: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:54:39 PM

[up] I thought that was because he wanted a challenge. That wouldn't be mitigating.

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#87057: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:56:24 PM

Well he insisted on bringing them out and only conceded the hour after Piccolo said that Mr Satan's daughter wants him to wait. And I think he beforehand als spared Satan in his Human Extinction Attack, though that might've been subconscious.

edited 15th Jun '17 2:56:31 PM by Forenperser

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#87058: Jun 15th 2017 at 3:00:36 PM

Well, I've thought that before, but I didn't want to bring it up because, well, it's Dragon Ball, one of the most discussed franchises. What can I add?

I would think it's due to Fat Buu's influence rather than Super Buu's choice, but if anyone would like to chip in, I'd appreciate it.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#87059: Jun 15th 2017 at 3:06:04 PM

[tup]Tyrannus.

Anyways, I've got another novel proposal. This thriller is called Last to Die, by Arlene Hunt. The plot concerns a school teacher, Jessie Conway, who single-handedly foils a high school shooting by dispatching the school shooters, resulting in both their deaths. Jessie immediately becomes a media sensation for her actions. But with this newfound fame, she also ends up attracting the very worst sort of attention.

Enter Caleb Switch.

Who is He?

Caleb Switch is the Big Bad of the novel. A skilled hunter, Caleb has shifted his hunting skills from animals to human beings, and is obsessed with hunting the most challenging prey. And now he's set his sights on Jessie.

What Does He Do?

I'm going to be explaining his actions in chronological order, particularly his past, as some of it is told out-of-order.

Caleb was born to Aldo Switch, himself a talented hunter. Growing up, Caleb, his sister, and their mother would often endure abuse at their father's hands; in particular Caleb gained a nasty scar across his mouth.

Even from a young age, Caleb was a natural when it came to hunting. He would often use a home-made bow and arrow for shooting woodland animals. His father often boasted about his son's skills, setting him up against out-of-towners in hunting competitions, which Caleb excelled at. However, in addition to gaining his father's love of hunting, Caleb also gained his father's sociopathy.

When Caleb was turning just shy of fifteen years old, Aldo took him on a hunting trip out in the woods. There, Aldo showed Caleb his cabin in the woods, proclaiming his plans to rent it and using it as a base for their hunting expeditions. Unbeknownst to Aldo, however, was that Caleb had secretly planned on killing him to free himself from his father's abuse. The moment Aldo let his guard down, Caleb shot him with Aldo's own gun. Few people mourned Aldo's death, and Caleb, as far as it seems, was never considered a suspect.

In his adulthood, Caleb became a loner, spending his time in the woods, hunting down forest creatures. At some point, he did some time in prison for some minor crimes. Though he was released, the experience made him terrified of ever returning.

One day, Caleb met a woman named Angie hitchhiking in the woods and offered her a ride. Now, Caleb didn't originally intend to kill her; he actually was intending on possibly wooing her, and if that failed, simply dump her in the middle of nowhere. However, Angie became nervous and eventually tried to flee. This caused Caleb to panic, as he thought Angie might call the police on him. Thus, Caleb did the most sensible thing he could think of, and proceeded to hunt her down and kill her. This murder seemed to "awaken" something in Caleb; he was no longer interested in hunting animals. Now, he had shifted his interests to human beings.

From that point on, Caleb became a Serial Killer. His MO was to gain the trust of his selected target, then abduct them and take them out to the aforementioned cabin the woods. There, he would release his victims and give them the directions to a bridge several miles ahead. After sending his victims off into the woods, Caleb would hunt them down like animals and kill them. A preferred tactic of his was to pass through an underground cave and cut his victims off before they reached the bridge.

Caleb categorizes his victims: Category A for "strong" prey who test his abilities, and Category B for weak and predictable victims.

Some time prior to the novel, Caleb met a man named Arthur " Art" Samuel Weils at a bar. Selecting Art as a useful "Category B" target, Caleb quickly befriended Art and gained his trust, before taking him on a drive-out and killing him. Afterwards, Caleb stole Art's identity and moved into his apartment in Charlotte (it's all but stated that this isn't the first time he's done something like this). There, Caleb continued his killing spree. In particular, he has his eyes set on Sonja, the wife of the leader of a motorcycle club.

One day, after returning from his latest kill, and restless that she had been "too easy", Caleb happens to learn about Jessie Conway on the news. This gains Caleb's interest, and he begins to identity her as a potential "Category A" target.

Before going to track down Jessie, Caleb targets another woman, Marcie, who he has also identified as a "Category A". Though Marcie puts up a good fight, she's ultimately killed. Shortly afterwards, Caleb goes to the apartment of a street hustler, Frank Fulchano, to settle some business there. When their dealings go south, Caleb kills Frank and those living with him (admittedly, that was in self-defense). Realizing the police will soon be onto him, Caleb flees Charlotte using the credit card of one of his previous victims, George Graham (who was a rare "Category Z").

Frustrated that his chances with Sonja have been blown, Caleb decides to switch his attention to Jessie. Arriving at her town, Caleb quickly learns of her place of residence and arrives at the house, watching Jessie. Eventually managing to lure Jessie out of the house by stealing her dog, Rudy, Caleb kills Rudy and kidnaps Jessie. After bringing Jessie to his cabin, Caleb releases her into the woods, telling her of the bridge location as usual.

What follows is an extended cat-and-mouse between Caleb and Jessie as he pursues her through the forest. During this time, Jessie's husband, Mike, and his brother Ace search for Jessie, and manage to find Caleb's cabin, where they discover the bodies of over fifteen of Caleb's previous victims in the area. And those are just the bodies that they found; it's implied to be more than that.

Jessie proves to be a harder challenge than all of his previous victims, which only serves to excite Caleb even more. At some point, Jessie manages to get the drop on Caleb and disarms him of his gun. This forces Caleb to use his crossbow instead, and he manages to shoot Jessie just as she's about to reach civilization. As Caleb approaches Jessie, ready to finish her off, Jessie grabs hold of him and sens them both hurtling off a precipice and into a river below.

Both survive, albeit injured. While Jessie is found by a family nearby and rushed to the hospital, a mangled Caleb drags himself through the woods, only to be found by Ace near his cabin. Caleb expects to be turned over to the authorities; rather, Ace does the "humane" thing and simply finishes Caleb off with his rifle.

Freudian Excuse?

Okay, let's address this. Yes, Caleb had an abusive father, and it's made clear that he's the reason behind Caleb's love for hunting. With that said, Caleb becoming a Serial Killer was of his own volition; he was content simply hunting animals, and turned to killing people because of the thrill that it gave him. At one point, when Caleb is hunting Jessie, he think back to his father, his only thought on the matter being that his father "had it coming", and now, Jessie does as well.

His past is never portrayed sympathetically, just used as a way to explain why he's like this, but never actually excuses it.

Redeeming features?

Absolutely not. A good chunk of the story is told from Caleb's point-of-view; he only seems to consider other people either pawns or potential prey. The highest amount of respect he has for other people are for Category A's, and that's only because they make the hunt challenging for him.

As for his family...Caleb has broken off contact with them, and only really seems to think of his father. However, when Mike and Ace meet his sister Grace to get information on Caleb, she is shown to be absolutely terrified of him and what he would do to her if she helped them. While not made explicit, it's hinted that he must have done some something that made Grace so scared of him.

Thoughts?

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87062: Jun 15th 2017 at 3:28:22 PM

So, don't know if it needs to be added, but in Duane Swierczynski 30-issue run on Judge Dredd fpr IDW in 2012-2015, he brought back the Dark Judges, and besides the usual killing everyone, they created some new ones, including this nightmare.

Also, shall I cut MAX!Kingpin and MAX!Bullseye?

edited 15th Jun '17 3:30:35 PM by ACW

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#87063: Jun 15th 2017 at 3:53:04 PM

Decided to add a few quotes. Thoughts on them?

"I call it "The Expansion". It is my purpose, and now it is yours as well. Over thousands of years I implanted thousands of extensions of myself on thousands of worlds. I need to fulfill life's one true purpose, to grow and spread, covering all that exists until everything is... me!"
Ego reveals his true plans, Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2

"Just as I suspected. It appears that I was mistaken to grant free will. However, all will soon be over! The Telethia will exterminate all life on Bionis. I will then create a new world! Just as I have done many times before!"
Zanza, Xenoblade

"You mere vessels dare to oppose the will of a god?! Then I shall obliterate everything with my unimaginable power!"
Zanza, Xenoblade

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87064: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:02:52 PM

Okay with Zanza's; not sure if Ego's is bad enough.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#87065: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:11:02 PM

[up] I thought that quote showed Ego's desire of how he only cares about himself. I don't know any other quotes that would work. The killing Meredith quote sounds slightly sympathetic even though in context we know it wasn't.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#87066: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:29:40 PM

[tup] to Caleb Switch.

Well then that's enough votes, so I guess they both count. I'll be honest I never expected their would be five monsters in this show. I'll probably propose my sixth potential candidate in a few days or so, but at this point I'm getting more and more sceptical anymore will count.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#87068: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:32:22 PM

[up][up][up]What about the quote where he tells Peter that he will be used as a battery?[up]

edited 15th Jun '17 4:32:44 PM by SatoshiBakura

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#87069: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:37:44 PM

Alright...will be doing Wonder Woman within an hour. Oh, and yea to the Wild West candidates, Caleb Switch and Tyrannus. Nice work, guys.

edited 15th Jun '17 4:38:18 PM by Lightysnake

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#87070: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:38:32 PM

[up][up] Are you talking about this one?

"Soon, Peter, we will be all there is. So stop pissing me off!"

edited 15th Jun '17 4:38:42 PM by ReynTime250

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87071: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:42:20 PM

[up][up] An hour? Aren't there 4 hours left?

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#87072: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:52:36 PM

I technically saw it thursday. Would anyone mind if I go a bit early on Thursday evening?

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#87074: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:53:36 PM

[up][up] I wouldn't but others might.

edited 15th Jun '17 4:53:58 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#87075: Jun 15th 2017 at 4:55:01 PM

I think Satoshi's talking about this quote:

"I tried so hard to find the form that best suited you, and this is the thanks I get? You really need to GROW UP! I wanted to do this together, but I suppose you'll have to learn by spending the next thousand years as a BATTERY!"


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