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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#87026: Jun 14th 2017 at 11:48:01 PM

@Nrjxll: Well enjoy your time away. Hope you get around to seeing the film. I still need to.

@Ravok: I was going to bring him up when I was making all those "No" proposals last year, but damn did it take forever for his arc to finish up. And yeah, he's a Knight Templar through and through, nothing really redeemable about him trying to purge all life on Cybertron.

I would vote him down for 2 reasons.

1. Heinous Standard. Froid and Pharma can get away with their positions because they're just serial killers, not that high of a standard. But when a character goes to genocide the pool get's a lot more crowded. Basically Sentinel's up against Black Shadow, Overlord, Shockwave, Tyrest, Megatron, Sixshot, Galvatron, Scorponok, Nova Prime, and Jhiaxus. All of them have performed atrocities on Sentinel's scale with only Overlord's unrepentant sadism edging him out from the rest (all of whom either have some sympathetic quality or moral impairment). Sentinel's crimes aren't that unique when held up against the others.

2. He does have an Even Evil Has Standards moment. His loyalty to his since extinct tribe and Nexus Prime seems genuine and he's disgusted at his belief that Micronus seemingly abandoned his tribe to die as he views the act cowardly and disgraceful.

And just an additional thing. Sentinel's been written so radically different over the course of IDW. First he was a good-guy then he was retconned into having been evil all along as well as a Headmaster, and then Barber and Roberts kept going back and forth on how he was supposed to act. Heck even his Fantastic Racism doesn't make all that much sense: Why is he arguing for the ideal Cybertronian being from Prima rather than from Nexus? Isn't he from Nexus's Tribe? Shouldn't he have something to say about non combiner transformers? I don't hold any of these factors against Sentinel qualifying should he be proposed, it just makes the whole thing so inconsistent.

That and I'm like 90% sure he's still alive. That death was waaaayyy too obviously a Disney Death.

MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#87027: Jun 15th 2017 at 12:21:51 AM

I did not expect Manga!Ogura to be so unanimous. I would've thought someone would've brought up the heinous standard or something. This is good though, so here's his writeup. (I don't think I'm very good at these though)

The Legendary Starfy manga adaptation by Yumiko Sudo: the games, Ogura is portrayed as a Tragic Villain, but in this manga adaptation, he is far worse. Making his first appearance by attempting to suffocate Starfy to death, he goes on to kidnap Starfy's mom and force Starfy to fight her, taking a cruel satisfaction in doing so. Going on to start forest fires and implant landmines in towns, he lacks any of his redeeming traits or and inherit's Evil's worst traits from the games.

I concur i'm bad at these.

A question: have we ever considered the Dark Rust from Pokemon Rumble Blast? Or is it a GDV?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#87028: Jun 15th 2017 at 12:35:07 AM

[up] The Dark Rust is one I'd label a GDV, yes... it has no clear motive for doing what it does, whatsoever, and all of its dialogue is just about some of the most generic, cliched villain talk you could imagine.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#87029: Jun 15th 2017 at 12:36:03 AM

New proposal, from ''Super-American'.

Who's the candidate?'

Tyrannus, leader of a fascist insurgency movement trying to conquer America.

What does he do?''

Literally the moment Super-American comes from the future to stop the Nazis, Tyrannus's men attack Capitol Hill. They start killing off Senators when Super-American stops them. As Tyrannus is preparing to kill the leader of the attack, our hero comes in and kicks his ass.

However, he's forced to stop the beating when Tyrannus orders the Maryland Dam be blown. As our hero goes to plug the dam, the local towns are completely flooded. Luckily, the dam is fixed before it can do too much damage. However, the nearby forces who did the bombing are then ordered to massacre a nearby town, though Super-American stops them.

As Super-American goes to capture Tyrannus, he sees the remainder of the DC forces trying to force Congress to vote their boss into Evil Overlord status on pain of death. Our hero makes short work of the fascists before continuing on his way.

Super-American arrives just as Tyrannus is ordering New York City to be completely demolished. After our hero rescues the President, whom had been kidnapped in the Capitol attack, he goes to stop NYC from being massacred. He destroys force, but Tyrannus escapes.

Next issue, we see Tyrannus meeting with his boss, European dictator Vultro, Super-American tries to stop the latter's plans to invade the US. Wanting to annihilate his nemwsis, Tyrannus orders a dive bombing raid on a munitions factory our hero is in, not caring that many of his men will be killed in the process.

After Super-American destroys the booming fleet, Tyrannus takes a woman hostage so he can escape. Super-American gives chase, and ends up clobbering the fascists. Tyrannus tries to escape with Dr. Blind, only to find that Vultro already took one of the planes. He shoots Blind dead, but is captured in his escape attempts and later sentenced to Alcatraz.

Heinousness?

Most Golden Age villains don't try to kill everybody in New York.

Mitigating factors?

None

Verdict?

[tup]

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#87030: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:13:37 AM

[tup]Tyrannus, if only for his mass death plot on New York.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87031: Jun 15th 2017 at 2:45:43 AM

[tup] Tristam; I could go either way on the other 2.

[tup] Expanded Poison writeup. Please add to the Drafts.

[tup] Tyrannus.

Are there enough votes to cut MAX!Bullseye and MAX!Kingpin?

edited 15th Jun '17 2:45:57 AM by ACW

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#87032: Jun 15th 2017 at 3:37:15 AM

Yes to Tyrannus and Poison writeup.

Also, I finished S&S, and time to EP the Big Bad. By the way, the Inquisitor will still count since he is a minor villain with different resources, scale, and crimes.

What is the game about?

First, I gotta give you a background on the game itself since it will be easier to understand his actions. The game like Dark Souls has very little story and a lot more lore but the world has been at war for centuries. You are on a ship that gets destroyed and you land on an island. That is where you start traveling around and fighting enemies until reaching the final boss. As you play through the game you learn that the Island is made of real-life locations and some kind of power collected them.

Who is the candidate and what has he done?

Guys, enter the Nameless God. For starters, it is revealed that he was once a mortal man who desired to be a God. In this lore, God Needs Prayers Badly so he imprisoned the Three (Gods of this game's religion) and buried them alive eventually killing them by making them forgotten.

In the game it is him who manipulates all the events and is responsible for all the wars and conflicts around the world. Occasionally, he demands a human sacrifice in order to stop one war from happening but that doesn't stop others. He also is the one that steals people, places, and monsters to be trapped on his island forever. In other words, he is responsible for all the game's nastiness.

During the game, you also encounter the scarecrow (his avatar) who constantly taunts you and tries to break your will entirely.

Heinous?

Sets it. The Big Bad who is definitely the most heinous character in the story. I already stated about other villains.

Mitigating Factors?

Now that is what really concerns me. When you defeat him and get his blade it says this;

An impossibly massive weapon barely recognizable as a sword. Carried by the Nameless God, this malevolent blade was forged in the flames of His envy and radiates an intense avarice which threatens to devour its wielder's very soul. Shackled to a mortal destiny by mortal desires, the Nameless God knew only seething rage and abject despair. In being freed from this cruel fate by mortal hands, perhaps He was finally able to know peace as well.

I mean, you can make an argument that he is greedy and does it all out of greed and a mortal wanting to be a God... but the fact that it implies his existence is miserable makes me doubt.

Conclusion?

If it wasn't for this final potential mitigating factor, the Nameless God would be an very easy keep. But with that, we really need to consider it and decide.

edited 15th Jun '17 3:38:24 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#87033: Jun 15th 2017 at 5:05:15 AM

Yeah, I think I'm gonna [tdown] Nameless God.

I consider Soulsborne lore to almost always be objective and true, so something like that, after some thought, seems disqualifying, despite The NG never personally exhibiting good qualities.

Compare to Pontiff Sulyvahn, who has nothing mitigating in any item description.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#87034: Jun 15th 2017 at 5:27:18 AM

[tdown] Nameless God. Since lore and item descriptions are the main way that type of game conveys story and characterization, I really can't ignore that mitigating factor.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#87036: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:16:00 AM

Where is everybody? It's not about voting; regardless of what future votes will say, I just got 100% convinced that Nameless God doesn't count and won't provide a writeup regardless of anything. I am wondering why there haven't been any new proposals or comments.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87037: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:21:39 AM

It HAS been a somewhat slow day. Tomorrow should speed up though: We got Wonder Woman & Tekken 7. And I get a feeling the discussion on the former could be interesting.

edited 15th Jun '17 11:23:01 AM by ACW

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#87038: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:28:24 AM

I was gonna say I put the date for Little Witch Academia as July 10 as when it ends two weeks after subs. Are we going by two weeks after the unsubbed version or the subbed version? Unsubbed would be July 9 in comparison.

edited 15th Jun '17 11:34:38 AM by ReynTime250

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#87039: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:33:39 AM

I think if it's just a difference of one day. either one, but I may be in the minority.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#87041: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:38:23 AM

This is the one thing that makes me glad I didn't see WW until Sunday. (I don't have anything to specifically PM anyone about, and after waiting so long I might as well go a few more hours.)

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#87042: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:38:51 AM

It happened again.

  • Complete Monster: Taking over a foreign game for selfish satisfaction of his Attention Whore ego? Check. Usurping the rightful ruler of said game and rewriting the game's citizens into thinking she's a glitch who will doom them all if she tries to race? Check. Tricking the one person who helped her build a kart and taught her how to drive into wrecking the kart? Check. Setting about to destroy the entire arcade after losing his last chance to get what he wanted? Check. Ladies and gentlemen, all hail the greatest monster in gaming history: King Candy aka Turbo.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#87043: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:41:16 AM

[up] Ha, that's actually funny because the user just brought trouble upon himself.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#87044: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:44:05 AM

"All hail the greatest monster in video game history, King Candy from Turbo"

I think someone is forgetting a couple of people.

On any case someone please report that on ATT and cut it immediately.

edited 15th Jun '17 11:45:43 AM by ReynTime250

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#87045: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:45:14 AM

C'mon, guys...it's pretty clear who that is.

SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#87046: Jun 15th 2017 at 11:45:20 AM

Already cut it. You mean ATT, right?

It was added by E1cra Z4life.

edited 15th Jun '17 11:46:18 AM by SatoshiBakura

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
SatoshiBakura (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)

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