During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
We've got a Useful Notes page on plagiarism on this wiki and copy-pasting large segments of text is considered "bad form" by it.
Utter Koala is new here so I would cut him some slack but since I don't know much details about a character, I will abstain.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!I'll give a yea to the Inquisitor, for now. Koala, though... that's not a proper EP. If you want us to take your proposal seriously, go through the effort of writing up the information yourself. I'm going to say "no" to Rook until a proper proposal is made.
edited 14th Jun '17 3:54:28 PM by Scraggle
Okay its been long enough, here is my forth (and I suppose possibly fifth as well) candidate from The Wild Wild West.
I’ll be honest, I know I said back when I started there were a lot of mad scientists in this show, but I’m honestly surprised that we’re presently upon our third candidate who is one (heck Braine’s partially one to). This show does have a lot of different villains, one of my favourite things about it is how easily it switches between low concept and high concept. For some reason though it seems Mad scientists make up the shows most heinous.
Any way enough stalling here is Doctor Tristam from “The Night of The Druids Blood”.
Now partially for fun, partially due to the confusing nature of the story, I thought I would do this effortpost slightly differently to how I normally do them. Hope you enjoy.
Who is he:
Now for all appearances Doctor Tristam is simply an ordinary quiet doctor, presently working as the personal physician to Senator Clay Waterford, a highly respected political player and renowned by several as a genius. In reality Tristam is the secret mastermind behind a series of sudden and often suspicious deaths affecting the nation’s top scientific and scholarly minds.
He uses his two associates: Astarte a beautiful, seemingly innocent woman, who is really a cold hearted sociopath. And Asmodeus an arrogant famous Stage Magician and self-proclaimed follower of the black arts (it’s not clear whether he really is, or if he’s just a really good magician), to do all the heavy work. Astarte charms and seduces the men until they are wrapped around her finger, while Asmodeus awes the targets with his skills luring them in.
What does he do:
We are brought into the story when Jim is contacted by his former professor Robey, who should be happy, having finally achieved the tenured position of chair of archaeology, however Jim quickly realises something is wrong, as Robery seems to be afraid for his life.
Robery reveals that he is indeed in trouble, relating to Jim that over the previous year he had fallen for a beautiful young woman, calling herself Lilith, who he had met while supervising a Sumerian dig in Mesopotamian. He revealed he fell entirely for her, and would have married her, only to discover that she was “evil, evil beyond the capacity of her years.” He shows Jim a picture of her, but is interrupted by one of his students bringing him his robe and informing him he has to give a talk. Professor promises to tell Jim the rest after the talk is finished.
However as Robey crossing the courtyard his robe suddenly bursts into flames and Jim is forced to watch as his beloved mentor burns to death. Horrified by this, Jim desires to perform the investigation into his death himself, but his superior Colonel Fairchild informs him he’s been blocked as it’s not a federal matter. Unofficially however, he tells him the blocking is coming from Senator Waterford.
Jim goes to pay the Senator a visit hoping to persuade him otherwise, however he refuses to budge on the matter. Jim also discovers that Astarte is in fact the Senator’s new wife (as well as that being her real name). He also meets Tristam and Asmodeus for the first time, both seeming quite innocent, he even gets to watch Asmodeus give a demonstration of his skills. Confronting Astrate he lets her know that she had a hand in professor Robey’s death, and gets her to admit it was her idea for Waterford to block him.
Realising that Jim isn’t going to give up investigating, even without official permission, Tristam implements an extremely complicated gambit. First he has Jim kidnapped, then fakes that he was in a serious accident having another man pose as him in hospital. The real Jim is imprisoned in a massive sweat box.
There Jim is taunted by Asmodeus, before being left alone as the box begins to heat up (and I mean really heat up, a wooden plank he leaves against the metal side catches fire). Jim manages to escape, but seemingly stumbles upon a witch’s coven, an entire room of hooded figures chanting ominously. Before his very eyes he witnesses Astrate seemingly sacrifice a person upon an alter but when he attempts to intervene he is knocked out cold by the hidden Asmodeus.
Removing the fake Jim from the hospital, they drop the real Jim off outside Senator Waterford’s mansion. Bursting in, still recovering from being knocked out cold, he accuses Astarte and Asmodeus of what he saw, but due to his state and the bizarre claims everyone dismisses him as being delirious from the head trauma, and Artemus has to quietly remove Jim as his accusations are angering the Senator.
Recovering later, Jim realises that was exactly their intent, as now no one will take anything he says or discovers in relation to the matter the seriously. However, Artemus calmly reveals that he believes him, pointing out not only is he is best friend, but there is the little fact that several hours earlier Jim was involved in a near fatal accident, now he barely has a scratch.
He also reveals that he has been doing some research of his own. It turns out over the last few years, numerous great scientists and scholars have been mysteriously dying (through methods such as drowning, road collision, spontaneous combustion etc.) and in each event he’s managed to find evidence that either Astarte or Asmodeus was in the same town at the time. He’s also uncovered something else that is a bit funny, every single one of those victims across the whole country is now buried in the same cemetery, specifically the one there in town from.
Taking this to mean that the scientist’s deaths are being faked and they are being held prisoner for some reason, Jim and Artemus take their discoveries to Colonel Fairchild, who agrees to let them investigate the cemetery. However, their theory hits a wall when they have one of the victims dug up, and find his body is indeed in the coffin.
Colonel Fairchild declares an end to the entire investigation, and tells Jim and Artemus to take a long vacation. Just as the two are about to leave, they hear a chanting coming from the cemeteries crypt. Going to investigate they discover the sight where they took Jim, and seemingly stumble upon another black mass.
Only for it to turn out the whole thing is fake, the hooded members are just dressed up tailor dummies, the supposed victim is just a mannequin, and the chanting is a gramophone record being played. However, before they can continue there search they are confronted by Asmodeus who holds them at gunpoint.
Jim manages to disarm him, and a fight breaks out ending with Asmodeus dying. It is at this point, Doctor Tristam reveals himself as the mastermind of this entire escapade. He also reveals he’s rigged the floor of his office, electrocuting Artemus when he tries to confront him. Tristam assures Jim that the shock only knocked him out cold; he didn’t kill them as “that will come later”.
He then confronts Jim about why he things he’s doing all this. Jim reveals their theory, only for Tristam to reveal they were right. When Jim points out that the men are clearly dead, as their bodies are buried in the cemetary above them. Tristam mockingly replies that while this is true, the men are as alive as they are.
It is then he reveals the true horror of his escapades. Somehow, Tristam has discovered a method of keeping a person’s brain alive without a body. He calmly unveils his creation, a gigantic web latching onto the jars that sustain his victims. Each one able to see, hear and think, but not move; constantly conscious with no end in sight.
Tristam mockingly introduces Jim to his nine victims, ending with professor Robey. Tristam explains that due to the nature of the web, all he needs to do is ask them a question and when they come up with the result, it is fed into his computer, thus providing him with the combined intelligence of the nation’s greatest minds at his fingertips.
Tristam then reveals that Senator Waterfall will die this very night, while attending a party, not to add him to web, but simply because Astarte has grown tired of him and they no longer need to manipulate his political connections. He will do so, the same way that they killed Professor Robey, which Tristam reveals is another invention of his, derived from the recipe for Greek fire, by altering the concentration of the mixture he can determine exactly how long it takes to burst into flames, thus making its useful for assassination. He also explains that if they are unwilling to follow his demands, he simply electrocutes them from his control panel until they comply.
Jim however points out that if all his victims are still conscious and able to think, then they must all really hate Tristam for what he’s done to them, and asks what will happen when they get it into their head they can revolt. Tristam scoff’s the idea, but Jim’s words manage to inspire them to try.
Tristam tries to get it back under control, but Jim’s urging manages to get all his victims to struggle together, overloading Tristam’s invention and finally ending their suffering. During the process the sparks the machines produces catch Tristam’s clothes, igniting them and he burns to death. Yeah Karma’s a bitch.
After this Jim manages to get to the party on time, and confronts Astarte, revealing that both her conspirators are dead. While Astarte almost manages to trick Senator Waterford into killing Jim, by pretending he was trying to rape her. Jim manages to save the senator and prove Astarte’s role in the killings. The episode ends with him telling her, she’ll be hanged from the highest gallows he can find and no one care.
Freudian Excuse or any redeeming traits:
Well the best thing you can say about Doctor Tristam is he’s at least polite when he’s introducing his mad scheme to Jim.
Overall the three of them seem to have a working relationship, but Tristam show no care or interest when Jim kills Asmodeus. He does seem to be a bit more cordial with Astarte, but at the same time he never shows any evidence he views her as anything more than a useful asset.
Exactly what they get out of this arrangement is never exactly made clear. Though it’s implied Astarte is doing it simply because she enjoys seducing, manipulating and finally killing people.
Astarte herself is a little shocked when she discovers both her compatriots are dead. But this isn’t care, more realising the scheme is coming apart and she’s next. As for her, well she’s charming but as Jim outright lampshades she’s a fundamentally selfish and cruel Wolf in Sheep's Clothing.
Heinous Standard:
Now I know we’ve already had two mad scientists qualify, but Doctor Tristam is a beast all of his own. While he technically never actually kills anyone (or at least doesn’t leave them dead), trapping nine people in an And I Must Scream fate, entirely for his own benefit is an utterly unique crime. No one else in the entire series ever does anything remotely like it.
Now as to how he compares to his compatriots, technically its Astarte and Asmodeus who do all the actual leg work (of which they are both happy to carry out), but Tristam is the mastermind behind the events. Each one occurs through his decision (except for Senator Waterford’s attempted murder, which was apparently Astarte’s, which he agreed with), without him none of this would have happened.
We don’t actually see the other eight victim’s deaths, but we do see all nine of them in his monstrous invention, with Tristam taking the time to personally introduce each one and their field of specialty.
We likewise see two attempts of him using his chemical soaked clothes to burn people alive, one successful, one unsuccessful.
Nothing he does falls into this.
Conclusion:
Tristam is guilty of trapping nine people in a living hell, having them killed (including having several burned to death) so he could get a hold of their brains, and then electrocuting them whenever he wants their knowledge. All so he could have their combined brilliance for himself, to use to do whatever he wants Yeah I think its safe to say Tristam counts.
As you’ve probably gathered, while I’m mostly posting on Doctor Tristam, if you think that Astarte (or even Asmodeus) also qualifies please feel free to vote for them as well, I was tempted to propose all of them, but I decided Asmodeus was to much of a follower, and as the mastermind Doctor Tristam stood out as the worst.
edited 14th Jun '17 4:29:19 PM by MGD107
Dr. Tristam
Also, seeing as he got only yes votes, here is the writeup for the Inquisitor with the help of Polar Phantom.
- Salt and Sanctuary: The Untouched Inquisitor, seeing sin within the Dome of Light, sacrificed the people within. These victims became the Whispermen, losing their bodies and their will, trapped with their former home now known as the Dome of the Forgotten. The Inquisitor also removed the princess, her fate never known, and turned her beloved pet Kinoa into the Third Lamb, a hideous chimera like monster, taking away her pride, the praise of her master and even her name. His motivation is a fanatical desire to purge the Dome of "sin" so his "untouched" can flourish. A terrifying holy man rightfully described as "souless", the Untouched Inquisitor makes his mark upon the game's Crapsack World.
Just wait a couple hours before I EP the Queen of Smiles although, in her case I could see her not counting due to lack of clear detail in her crimes.
edited 14th Jun '17 4:44:55 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Okay, so...I think I'll take a break from writers transformer CM's. I don't own any of the comics so I've been to reliant on the wiki. I didn't mean to plagiarize for Rook, I might try to write a more original proposal for him later. But for now, I'll recommend someone from a different franchise, give transformers a break.
On closer inspection, I am not EP Queen of Smiles simply because of the lack of clear detail of her crimes and more offscreen villainy this time. But I will EP the Big Bad as Polar doesn't want to.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Okay with 8
and 0
I now give you all William Stoughton's write-up:
Assassin's Creed (Titan Comics)
- Trial By Fire: William Stoughton, a member of the Templar Order, serves as the Big Bad of this issue being the orchestrator of the Salem Witch Trial and using the hysteria to convince the masses of people into eradicating the Assassin Brotherhood. Because of his mechanizations at least 20 innocent people were documented to be executed via hanging, and the undocumented deaths were a result of Stoughton's tortuous experiments where the victims had succumb to their wounds, all because of his belief that one of them happens to be a Piece of Eden, called the Oracle. When he learns that fellow Assassin, Tom Stoddard, and Jennifer Querry know about the oracle's whereabouts he captures them, tortures them for the information, and laters shoots the later In the Back. When Stoughton eventually discovers the oracle's identity, Dorothy Osborne, he sets a fire to kill Tom while admitting to torture Dorothy as well as more innocents so he can copy her powers onto other people creating more oracles which shock fellow Templar Samuel Parris. This cause a guilt-ridden Dorothy to throw herself into the fire which enrages Stoughton only because he had just lost his oracle and will have to start his search all over again and while strangling Tom, he promises to burn the entire colonies to the ground during his search for another oracle.
I'll send this to the drafts ASAP
edited 14th Jun '17 7:44:19 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffSo, just wanted to update an entry. This is the current entry for Doctor Poison II. It was put up after I proposed her a few years back:
At the time I didn't have a copy of the issue where they visit Skartaris. I knew she added to her crimes, and that she did nothing to redeem herself (something others also attested to) but beyond "experimenting on people" we did not have all the details. I now have them. Throughout her time in Skartaris, Doctor Poison has the other members of Villainy Incorporated kidnap people for her to convert into mindless zombie slaves, trapped under control of her drugs. When Wonder Woman launches a rebellion against Queen Clea, Poison unleashes an army of these slaves, forcing people to kill relatives and friends as they try to reach Clea and the other members of the organization.
Additionally, after Trinity betrays Clea and takes over the central computer running Skartaris, Poison is the one who figures out what Trinity is going to do—namely devolve every single person in Skartaris back into primitive animals—and insists she be allowed to go through with it, trying to prevent Wonder Woman from shutting down Trinity and the virus she's unleashed.
I figure her role in the destruction of an entire nation is worth adding. Anybody have any objections to me providing a rewrite?
New version:
- Doctor Poison II has only had a few appearances, but has made up for that with the sheer ugliness of the crimes she commits. The granddaughter of a Japanese war criminal, she has continued her grandmother's research, creating new toxins and diseases with which to infect the world. Kidnapping a man named Richard Agoras, Doctor Poison subjected him to lengthy torture and experimentation, ultimately using the Pandora Virus to mutate him into a hideous monster, and unleashing him on Wonder Woman. When captured following this incident, Doctor Poison released the Pandora Virus into the atmosphere, endangering millions of lives. Escaping custody, Poison joined Queen Clea's new Villainy Incorporated, and helped to overrun the pocket dimension of Skartaris, requesting that any prisoners they took be turned over to her for further use in her experiments. Using drugs and prolonged torture, Poison transformed her victims into living zombies, and forced them to battle their friends and relatives when Skartaris rose up against Clea's despotic regime. When Trinity betrayed Clea and attempted to eliminate all sentient life in Skartaris, Poison tried to prevent Wonder Woman from stopping Trinity, hoping to see the dimension destroyed by Trinity's new virus; she later willingly loaned her talents to the collective responsible for producing the monster Genocide. Obsessed with producing the perfect toxic agents and little else, and making her appearance as horrible as possible in order to maximise fear in her victims, Doctor Poison II is as bad as a Mad Scientist can get.
I added the part about Skartaris and put in a few links; also reworded a few clunkier sentences. How does it read?
Something I didn't put in, but wanted to mention is that when the first stage of the Trinity Virus reduces Poison's employer, Clea to an infant, Poison picks up the child, looks at her, and then tosses her aside. Clea may or may not have been intended to die from this; later writers ignored it had happened.
'Yes' to Okura, Tristam, the Inquisitor, and Astarte. Highly approve of the Poison rewrite as well.
@DrPsyche: I've actually recently been considering proposing Sentinel myself, though I wanna reread his arcs before I do so to make sure his psychotic Knight Templar attitude isn't TOO genuinely well-intentioned (It isn't, from what I remember). Do you think he's worth proposal?
edited 14th Jun '17 10:35:59 PM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Speaking of the few rewrites that have been done, I have one for RuneScape coming up. Some new atrocities have come up and end goals have been revealed, but the main problem will be keeping the entry under an acceptable limit. I expect less than minor edits will have to be made. Anyways, even though I'm pretty sure I'm the only person on the thread that actively play the game, I'll save the edits for the 19th since that's two weeks after the release date of the new content.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.

edited 14th Jun '17 2:55:49 PM by chasemaddigan