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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#86876: Jun 12th 2017 at 12:50:42 PM

Attempting to trim The Vizier. It's now 307 words...

  • Prince of Persia: The Vizier from the Sands of Time series is the Treacherous Advisor of the Maharajah of India and the main antagonist of the first and third games. In flashbacks, he abducts the wife of daeva prince Saurva to compel the latter to steal the Box of One Thousand Restraints from the Persians, knowingly causing the war between Persians and daevas, and murdering the hostage even after his demands have been met, then seals Saurva and his entire army inside the box. He subsequently attempts to make Saurva’s sister Sindra his wife then curses her with madness upon refusal. Suffering an incurable illness, he seeks immortality and godhood, and is willing to betray everyone to achieve his plans. He first betrays the Maharajah by killing the gatekeeper, allowing the Persian army to take the city. The Vizier later tricks the Prince into causing the Sands of Time to spread across a Persian city and turn the population into sand monsters. When the Prince rewinds time to warn Princess Farah, the Vizier plots to kill them both and frame the Prince for the murder of Farah. When the Prince accidentally undoes the Vizier's death, the latter, leading an army, murders the Maharajah, takes over the kingdom, and captures Farah before he mercilessly sacks Babylon and has King Sharaman killed. He then abducts and kills Kaileena the Empress of Time, causing the Sands of Time to reappear again and turn the Vizier's entire army into monsters. Ruling Babylon as the renamed God of Time, Zurvan, he allows his generals to commit atrocities on the civilians such as taking them to the arena or locking a bunch of people in a burning building while he personally kills the remains of the resistance. In the final act of the game, he abducts Farah in order to forcibly transform her into his immortal queen.

edited 12th Jun '17 12:51:27 PM by Silverblade2

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86877: Jun 12th 2017 at 1:38:13 PM

[up] [tup][tup][tup] Hits on all of his crimes. Please add to the Drafts.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#86878: Jun 12th 2017 at 3:43:39 PM

  • Typhon: Menar is a Mad Scientist and career criminal. After inventing the Tidal Annihilator, a machine that can generate destructive tidal wave, Menar moves to a Supervillain Lair under the sea, forcing his daughter to come with him. He then proceeds to destroy multiple ships, killing everybody aboard and robbing the cargo. After wiping one boat out for a $100,000,000 shipment of gold, Typhon and his lieutenant go to investigate. After Menar captures our heroes, he leaves them in a Death Trap to suffocate.

edited 12th Jun '17 3:44:26 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

UtterKoala Since: Mar, 2017
#86879: Jun 12th 2017 at 6:04:23 PM

Alright, if it's cool with you guys, I'll do my write up for Froid.

  • Transformers: More than Meets the Eye: Froid. Originally a friendly rival of Rung's, Froid destroyed their friendship when he plagiarised his work, and damaged his reputation. When sent to the planet Messatine to deal with the anti-authoritarian of Megatron, Froid "diagnosed" him with mental-illness and had him subjected to shadowplay, to remove his thoughts. Thankfully, Rung arrived with news of a sudden change to the law that meant a "personality adjustment" decision needed two signatures to reduce the risk of abuse. Forid could only despair, at the damage it could do to his career. Fortunately for Froid, a sudden energy surge prompted a planetary evacuation, tabling the issue. Later in his career, he assisted in the capture of a Serial Killer named Sunder, and accomplice brother Spectre. However, while on a prison ship taking the brothers to Garrus 6, the brothers pulled a successful escape, with Froid as their hostage, though Spectre was killed as a result. After the escape, Froid offered Sunder a perverse offer: in return for Sunder serving as a subject for him to study, Froid would help him cope with the death of his brother and supply him with victims. Soon after this, they repaired Spectre's alt-mode and used him as a ship. Sunder was kept in a cell on the ship, as Froid's "patient". After convincing Sunder he needed to see his victims in order to feed on them, Froid removed Sunder's eyes to inhibit his appetite, wearing them around his neck under the guise of a pair of Primal Beads. Held up on the planet Scarvix, Froid become rich and famous due to Sunder's abilities to read memories without a patient knowing. All while handing innocence cybertonians to the madman. After coming across the Lost Light, Froid boarded the ship, looking for new victims for Sunder. After reuniting with Rung, who thought he was dead, he attempted to blackmail his one-time friend into giving him his (Rung's) patient files. When Rung refused, he decided to feed him to Sunder, giving the Serial Killer his eyes Skids to rushed in to warn Rung. In order to escape, Froid opened Sunder's cell, setting free upon the Lost Light as he attempted to retreat. A sociopathic Insufferable Genius, Froid was willing to feed his patients and the patients of others to a Serial Killer for nothing more than sick curiosity and a quick buck.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#86880: Jun 12th 2017 at 6:18:26 PM

Okay, following on from all the Whoniverse candidates we've had over the last few weeks, I've decided, if no one minds, to make a few rewrites to some of write ups. The first (despite rewriting before) I still felt didn't truly do the character justice so I've expanded it to include more crimes and personality. The second I felt didn't flow exactly and the third because I felt it over explained a few details and having the actual quote was more powerful.

  • The Marshal from Season 9’s “The Mutants” is a petty tyrant who nevertheless stands out through sheer depravity. A ruthless hot tempered, trigger happy colonial overlord, the Marshal reigns over the planet Solos, whose natives are prematurely mutating. Abusing his position the Marshal treats the natives with contempt, hunting them for sport, as well as regularly gloating how pathetic, disgusting and diseased they are. Upon learning the humans are turning the planet back over to the Solonian’s, leaving him without his position of power, he arranges the murder of his superior, the only man who knows this, then personally murders his own assassin, framing the innocent dissident Ky. Angered by the Doctor’s interference, the Marshal attempts to kill him by sealing him in an cavern, along with Jo, Ky and two of his own soldiers, Stubbs and Cotton, then tries to gas them all. He also leads the slaughter of Varan and his fellow Solonians when they attempt to mount a rebellion, and personally shoots Stubbs in the back for trying to warn his superiors of his treachery. To ensure his dominion continues, the Marshal attempts to alter Solo's atmosphere, thus wiping the entire Solonian population in order for it to be repopulated by human colonists with him as their ruler.
  • Thawn, from season 16's "The Power of Kroll", is the head of a methane refinery on a satellite to which the native population have already been relocated by human settlers, Thawn's desire to see the operation expand results in him planning genocide against the native Swampies so he can expand onto their settlement. To this end, he pays a gunrunner to supply them with faulty weapons, so they're not actually a threat but he can use the weapons as an excuse to slaughter them and then claim self-defense. When his plans get disrupted by the arrival of swamp monster Kroll, he laughs in delight as Kroll attacks the Swampies village openly hoping it might wipe them out, a moment that leaves his entire crew staring in disgust. He then decides to take advantage of the situation by launching a bombardment against Kroll, while also wiping out the Swampies as "collateral damage". Openly expressing his contempt for them, Thawn regularly talks about the Swampies as though they're mere animals, outright stating that his Swampie servant doesn't count as a person. When one of his crew objects and tries to stop the bombardment, without a moment’s hesitation Thawn shoots him in the back. Despite his overall low standing in the scheme of things, by being willing to wipe out an entire race all out of irrational hatred and the prospect of commercial gain, Thrawn managed to sink to a depth of depravity matched by few.
  • Lord Sutcliffe, from season 36’s Thin Ice, is a racist businessman from Regency England who happens to capture an alien sea creature. Trapping it into the bottom of River Thames, Sutcliffe found a particularly vile way of using the creature for personal gain. During the Frost Fairs he would lure innocent people onto the ice where he would feed them to the creature. The creature would then defecate the human remains, which Sutcliffe would then have molded into bricks to burn in his mill, having discovered they burned vastly superior, as well as being cheaper, than coal. Sutcliffe has done this for many years, racking up a body count of possibly hundreds, children included. When the last Frost Fair occurs in 1814, Sutcliffe decides to plant explosives onto the ice's surface to detonate, destroying the ice and causing dozens of people to be devoured by the creature, and later straps The Doctor and Bill Potts, onto them. Upon witnessing them escape and warning people to get off the ice, Sutcliffe goes forward with his plan and detonates the explosives attempting to kill them and anyone else still on the ice. Self-admitting to be without “an ounce of compassion” and solely motivated by greed, Sutcliffe is a perfect example that sometimes humans can be just evil as any extraterrestial threat.

edited 12th Jun '17 6:20:13 PM by MGD107

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86881: Jun 12th 2017 at 8:38:25 PM

Finished Super Chibi Knight pretty quickly. Suprisingly it might have a candidate even though, it is really SUPER lighthearted game reportedly made by a guy with an 8 year old daughter.

What is the game?

The Kingdom of Oukoku is threatened by the spicy influence of General Tso. Citizens have placed their hope in a small knight who fits the requirements of ancient legends. Which path will the Chibi Knight choose... I gotta say, the art is very kiddy and colorful.

Who is the candidate?

Yes it is General Tso.

What has he done?

His goal is to resurrect an ancient demon who terrorized Oukuku. The first thing he does in the flashback is unleashing a spell that makes every single sorcerer in Oukuku blind. Later Beastmaster learn of that and in anger, they attack General Tsao and his army and almost defeat them but General Tsao poisons their water supply and defeats them. For now, seems like very, VERY standard villain but here is the thing. In the very end of the game, you return to your village from which you start to find it entirely destroyed and everybody dead in it. That is what made me effort-post him.

Heinous?

The Big Bad who sets it. Though, I am not sure if he meets the baseline.

Verdict?

Not sure. The game might just be too lighthearted honeslty but his final massacre of an entire village makes me think he might just very barely make the cut but I repeat, the game might be just too lighthearted.

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erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#86882: Jun 12th 2017 at 8:38:45 PM

Desaix seems to be an overwhelming keep. Now then, the second candidate... one that may or may not need a bit more discussion.

Like last time, unconcealed spoilers for Echoes/Gaiden.

What Is The Work?

Again, Fire Emblem Echoes. See my Desaix EP about the setting. However, I am going to describe our main conflict, particularly as it concerns this candidate.

On one side of Zofia, we have the Deliverance taking back their kingdom from Desaix, which eventually leads to them fighting the Rigelian Empire. On the other, we have Celica disembarking from her priory on Novis to investigate the mysterious happenings as it pertains to Mila. You see, resources and bounty are growing scarce in Zofia, leading some people to question faith in the gods. With her friends Maw, Boey, and Genny, Celica sets out to Mila's Temple, forming her side of the plot. And there is one guy who is pulling most of the strings.

Who is the candidate?

Jedah is the merciless fanatic that heads the Duma Faithful, a religious order dedicated to Duma that is also the state church and sole religion of Rigel. He is also tied to the Regelian Empire. The Duma Faithful wasn't always an Obviously Evil cult. In fact, the leader before Jedah - Sage Halcyon - was a decent, morally upstanding man. However, its those same attributes that made Jedah exile Halcyon, take over the church, and reform it. Jedah also fathered three daughters - Hestia, Maria, and Sonya (last of whom is a playable character) - and sacrificed the former two to Duma (implied unwillingly) note .

What has he/she done?

Jedah first appears berating Berkut in front of his uncle Emperor Rudolf before slinking off to speak to Duma... Well, his eye specifically. You see Cantors here and there in Act 1, 2, and 3, implied to have been sent by Jedah to seize the "child of fate" (Celica). So, we're doing quite a bit of fast-forwarding.

That said, on their way to the Zofian coast, one Arcanist tries to use an earthquake to crush Celica and her gang, claiming to have been given his power by Jedah himself.

Acts 4 and 5 are when Jedah really starts to shine.

At this point, it's revealed Duma provided the Kingsfang for Rudolf to seal Mila and take her away. Jedah is aware of this fact and eagerly awaits Celica's imminent arrival. He lays the seeds of his trap by approaching Celica at Dead Man's Mire. Jedah is the one holding Mila now. He strike a bargain with Celica - who, I should mention, is really Prince Anthiese of Zofia - that she offer up her soul to Duma. Then, he'll release Mila back to the world. Duma and Mila are suffering from the madness that plagues dragonkind. With Celica's soul, Jedah hopes to restore Duma and put Mila back in her place to recreate the balance Valentia is used to. This will also have the effect of getting Alm out of war. Spoiler alert, it's a lie to lure Celica to his side. He leaves and tells Celica he awaits her real reply atop Duma Tower.

Except we encounter him a little earlier, at the Swamps of Duma. Celica states her intention of speaking with Mila first before worrying about Jedah. He's okay with that, but he's not okay with her friends being around since his "bargain" was with her alone. He intends to kill them for "trepassing on this holy place" and also claims he's simply "being cautious". Have Sonya talk to him during the battle, and you'll hear about the whole sacrificing-the-sisters-and-cursing-them-to-be-witches thing. Defeated or not, Jedah exits stage life, telling Celica to meet him at Duma Tower and cryptically namedrops Alm.

At Duma Tower, Jedah shows what happened to Mila—instead of at the top, she's at the bottom on Duma's altar. She turned herself to stone along with Falchion. So Celica finally comes clean that her soul in particular is needed to revert the disaster. Before everyone protests, Jedah warps her group away and tells Celica to wait... and watch the boy (Alm) suffer.

So, Alm does his thing and everything is revealed on his part. Celica is distraught to hear Alm is coming to slay Duma without Falchion, which mean he's beyond screwed. Therefore, she agrees to offer her soul willingly to Duma, much to Jedah's delight.

Oh, by the way, Jedah warped Celica's party to the basement that fills with powerful Terrors to be slaughtered.

Alm and his party work their way to the basement of Duma Tower. They too encounter Mila's state, and a pair of bars separate him from Celica. Jedah formally introduces himself to Alm and lets everyone mankind will return to the will of the gods... or, rather, an age of fear and chaos "cradled in Duma's shadow". So, yeah, screw Mila in his eyes.

After destroying Mila's petrified state, everything except for Mila's head and Falchion, Jedah makes good on his promise to offer up Celica's soul. When Alm goes to the remains of Mila's corpse, he encounters Celica as a witch. Jedah orders her to seize Alm so he too can offer another Brand-bearer to Duma. Meanwhile, Celica is begging Alm to kill her so nothing else bad comes to pass. Jedah just sits back and watches the marvelous renactment of Duma and Mila's struggling. But Mila reaches out to Alm, has him pick up an unbound Falchion to Jedah's surprise, and stab Celica.

Yes. You read that right.

Hey, it worked because guess who got cured?

Celica is back, her party combines with Alm's, and everyone gathers for the final battle. Jedah rants and raves about Duma this and Duma that. He aides his precious god but is ultimately killed in the crossfire. Heck, he even brought his two daughters along.

Heinousness standard

Another one of the worst the game has to offer.

Like I mentioned in the last effortpost for Desaix, the heinousness standard of the verse may put him in contention with the likes of Manfroy and Gharnef, but I believe sacrificing your daughters to a Fate Worse than Death and offering the souls of our dual protagonists to a Mad God (even succeeding temporarily in Celica's case) makes that a moot point, all things considered.

Freudian Excuse?

None.

Redeeming or mitigating factors?

Jedah has a tendency to subvert these factors through maniuplation or pragmatism. For example, he let Celica and Alm have a "final" at the bottom of Duma Tower but tells them to be quick about it; I mean, for all intents and purposes, he's won at that point. He expresses disgust at Mila unbinding Falchion for someone to slay her brother, Duma, with, but he's the last guy to be talking about family.

However, here's what makes Jedah iffy. He's outraged the heroes are trying to harm Duma, yet he also won't listen to the fact Duma is going mad and suffering is what awaits Valentia should he continue to live. He's fully aware of that. It really brings the question does Jedah truly and genuinely believe Duma is the best for mankind.

Jedah: And if suffering is the gods' will, what of it? Without their strength at its foundation, Valentia cannot sustain life.

He can't seem to comprehend humankind building an ideal future without Duma or adhering to his teachings. He also believes that Duma and only Duma alone is fit to guide Valentia to the future it deserves, and so attempts to scheme a way to restore Duma's sanity AND establish his god as the only god fit for Valentia. He also doesn't understand a sane Duma would not be the same as the insane one that the Faithful has been following, and that his idea of a land of chaos and suffering will not happen.

Final verdict

No clue. He's either a straight fanatic in the same vein as F.A.N.G., Bellatrix, and Validar or he's got a Well-Intentioned Extremist vibe somewhere in that head of his. I want to hear what you guys think before I cast an official vote.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86883: Jun 12th 2017 at 9:01:33 PM

I'm inclined to go with 'fanatic' and give a yea

General Tso...leaning nay. That doesn't seem THAT bad for a guy in his weight class.

edited 12th Jun '17 9:02:22 PM by Lightysnake

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#86884: Jun 12th 2017 at 9:05:25 PM

Narrow no to Jedah, there does seem to be something genuine to him.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86885: Jun 12th 2017 at 9:07:41 PM

[up][up] Actually I think I rushed with an EP. I did it right before a Final Boss battle. During it, the few people you helped in your village come to your aid implying that he might not killed everybody but simply took them as hostages. So probably he doesn't count.

edited 12th Jun '17 9:21:39 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#86887: Jun 12th 2017 at 11:18:53 PM

[tdown] Jedah. He's sincere with his loyalty to Duma and spends most of the game being a bog standard villain that only targets the protagonists.

Also, there's a subtle implication that he's been corrupted somehow like the Witches — he has the same blue skin tone as them, and Witches are either Brainwashed and Crazy, Empty Shells, or The Soulless due to offering themselves up to Duma.

edited 12th Jun '17 11:29:01 PM by Karxrida

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#86888: Jun 12th 2017 at 11:25:36 PM

[up] I wouldn't put it past Jedah to willingly and knowingly offer himself to Duma. It's like how M. Bison got rid of his good half with full awareness. They both had choices and followed through.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#86889: Jun 12th 2017 at 11:28:03 PM

Presumably Jedah wouldn't do it For the Evulz like Bison (I assume that's why Bison did it), he would do it to show his devotion because he's actually loyal to his god.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#86890: Jun 12th 2017 at 11:44:16 PM

New proposal, from The Wraith.

This one will be short, due to the issue being six pages.

Who's the candidate?

Joe Carrol, a guy trying to get his wealthy father's inheritance.

What does he do?

Now, Joe's pa had this odd paranoia that the dead want him to give up his fortune or they'll kill him. Joe decides to use this to his advantage. He hires a stage magician to teach him how to make a corpse walk and talk like a puppet to gaslight Mr. Carrol into signing everything over to him.

One night, he goes to work. He sends out two squads of goons, one to kill the magician, and one to steal a corpse. As it turns out, the magician was performing for a crowd that included Irene and her brother Larry, and the corpse stolen belonged to the Wraith. Nice Job Fixing It, Villain!

Anywho, Irene and Larry end up following the killer to the house, where she comfronts Joe. He simply orders them killed without a second thought.

As the Wraith is rescuing his lady love, Joe does some Weekend at Bernie's shit with the corpse to torment dear old dad. Through the corpse, he makes his dad think the dead will kill him unless he will all his cash to his kid. Immediately after signing the will, Mr. Carrol keels over from a coronary.

Joe's response? Laughter! The Wraith's response? Possess his body one last time, and give Joe a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown. This leads to Joe turning himself in on fear of the Wraith killing him.

Heinousness?

Now, this is my primary concern. He doesn't have much by way of a bodycount, pretty average for a baddie of his calibre. However, I'd say Gaslighting your own parent so bad he dies just so you can get the inheritance inches him just over the baseline.

Mitigating factors?

None. Greedy little prick.

Verdict?

VERY tentative [tup], and I won't be shocked if he's voted down.

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#86891: Jun 12th 2017 at 11:54:43 PM

It's 2:55 AM EST in the East Coast on June 13, 2017. Welp, it means the villains from the long-awaited Prison Break revival are now eligible for discussion. The Fox series is well known for having more than its fair share of heinous criminals, so only two villains (Christina Rose Scofield and Wyatt Mathewson) have done enough to qualify as CMs. Are we about to get our third?

It goes without saying that the following proposal will have unmarked spoilers for Season 5 and the TV movie The Final Break. So ladies and gentlemen, tropers of all ages, it's time to discuss the Big Bad of the revival. And I'll start with the following question...

Who is Jacob Anton Ness, anyway?

Jacob Anton Ness is a noted economist who spends much of the day as a professor at the University of Ithaca. After Michael Scofield's "death", he marries Sara Scofield and helps her raise her and Michael's son Mike (creative name, I know).

Jacob is also known as Poseidon, a deep-cover CIA agent who leads a rogue cell called 21 Void. He despises America's foreign policy and sees the CIA's system as "slow, stupid, and doomed to fail." Seeing life as a game and using his seemingly normal American lifestyle as a front, Jacob will stop at absolutely nothing to pursue his own ideology (at the expense of America's foreign interests) and ensure the world (and his family) are shaped in his own image...

What does he do?

This is going to take a while, so buckle up.

As Michael Scofield and Sara are planning their wedding, Michael receives a phone call from Poseidon (Jacob). In the call, Jacob reveals that Kellerman did not have the ability to provide exoneration, and he uses this information to threaten life imprisonment without parole to all of Michael's family and friends unless he joined 21 Void. When Michael refuses to play his game, Jacob frames Sara (who was pregnant at the time) for the murder of Christina Scofield and has her incarcerated at Miami-Dade State Penitentiary, meaning Jacob is directly responsible for every horrible thing to happen to Sara and Michael throughout The Final Break.

Realizing that Poseidon is not playing around, Scofield is forced to fake his death and join 21 Void. Over the next three years, Jacob essentially enslaves Michael to break out terrorists, political dissidents, and rogue agents who would act against America's interests. We also find out that he collaborates and backs extremist groups and their leaders to do their bidding. Over time, Jacob grows resentful and fearful of Michael's intelligence and ability to create plans, knowing that Michael would sooner or later expose him. He also becomes obsessed with Michael's wife Sara, and is convinced that she's the reason why Michael wants to return to his old life.

In order to Murder the Hypotenuse (and to cut Michael off from his family for good), Jacob sets up a meeting with Harlan Gaines, the CIA's Deputy Chief who was investigating 21 Void's misconduct. At the cabin, Jacob murders Gaines and orders Michael to carry Gaines' body. After Michael carries the body, Jacob decides to sending him and T-Bag's son Whip (also known as David Martin) to Yemen to break out Abu Ramal, the commander of Yemen's ISIL (yes, THAT ISIL) insurgents, and help Ramal's insurgents overthrow the Yemeni government. Once the two arrive, Jacob sells them out and frames Michael for Gaines' death (in addition to additional murders and crimes against Yemen's government). Trapped with his alias Kaniel Outis, Michael spends the next four years along with Whip in the Ogygia prison.

During those four years, Jacob erases Michael's identity and history from the internet and marries Sara. Throughout the marriage, he tosses all of Michael's paper cranes down the sewage drain to stop her from finding out the truth. Thanks to his manipulation, Sara spends those four years Happily Married to Jacob, blissfully unaware of the truth.

Eventually, however, Lincoln and T-Bag discovers that Michael is still alive (albeit as his alias Kaniel Outis). To stop this, Jacob hires A&W and Van Gogh to kill Lincoln Burrows by hijacking his electric car's computers and forcing it to crash into the water. Jacob then orders the two to shoot himself in the leg. When he tells Sara to forget about Michael at the hospital afterwards, it is apparent that the act was just a small piece of his Gaslighting puzzle.

You see, Jacob suspects that Sara would become suspicious and eventually start to discover the truth. Thus, in addition to throwing away Michael's cranes, Jacob has A&W and Van Gogh terrorize and pursue (but not shoot at) Sara and her son Mike before having the two henchman arrested to prove his "innocence" when T-Bag catches him talking to his henchmen. Jacob also has a hacker named Theroux hack into Sara's contact information, before framing Kellerman (who was by then digging into 21 Void) for the hack after Kellerman's gunned down by A&W and Van Gogh.

Once A&W and Van Gogh are released on bail, Jacob orders them to kill Michael. After an attempt to have ISIL overwhelm Michael and Lincoln's crew fails, he has his henchmen kill Agent Kishida (who replaced Kellerman and also began investigating into 21 Void). He later convinces the Navy to order a cruise missile strike on Sucre's cargo ship when SEALs fail to find and kill Michael on board.

During her reunion with Michael in Crete, Sara finds out that Jacob really is Poseidon and asks her friend Heather to take Mike inside her home. When she confronts him, Jacob reveals that he ordered a missile strike on Michael. He also reveals that Heather's attempt to protect Mike didn't work, as he has Mike abducted from the house (Heather's fate is unknown, but we don't see her after Episode 7 which is when Mike is abducted from her house). He then kidnaps Sara and takes her and Mike into a vacation home. While Sara's locked up, he manipulates Mike into teaching him how to disguise maps as childrens' drawings. Using Sara and Mike as bait, he draws a map and sends it to Michael. Just before Michael arrives in the house, he has Sara tied up to a chair and reveals to her that he's planning to take Mike away before killing her and Michael and blowing up the house. When Sara calls him out as a psychopath, he brutally beats her and tapes her mouth shut before running away from the house.

While Michael and Sara escape from the trap, Jacob finds Mike running away from the house. He takes him to the University and begins to brainwash him into believing that Sara died in the house and that Michael is a terrorist named Kaniel Outis. The extent of brainwashing Mike receives is so traumatizing and so extreme that when Michael tries to get Jacob to give back his son, Mike screams at his (real) father that he's not his father and that he should go away.

Eventually, Michael arranges to meet Jacob at a warehouse to negotiate over hard drives the former has that contain damning evidence that would clear his name. With his henchman A&W killing Whip in front of his father T-Bag and FBI agents in hot pursuit, Jacob drags Michael to a cargo bay. Before he can get Michael to reveal the locations of the hard drives, however, he receives a call from Lincoln that Mike is out of his hands. Enraged over losing his trump card, Jacob chases Michael to a set where he shoots him. This turns out to be a trap constructed by Michael, as the set is identical to Gaines' cabin and the camera took the photos that were previously tampered by Jacob. Realizing that his gun was filled with blanks and the extent of Michael's planning, he breaks down and admits to Michael that he did kill Gaines before he gets his ass handed to him in the fight that ensues.

With Jacob beaten and arrested by the authorities, Michael refuses to join the CIA. He does, however, request that Jacob gets assigned as T-Bag’s cellmate in Fox River. Given the Gory Discretion Shot, Jacob's Rapid-Fire "No!", and T-Bag’s cackling, it's safe to assume that T-Bag avenged his son (and all of Jacob's victims). And we all can rest assured that NOTHING OF VALUE WAS LOST.

Any Freudian Excuse, redeeming qualities, or other mitigating factors?

Jacob doesn't have a Freudian Excuse nor any factors that justify his actions throughout the revival. Even under his economics professor disguise, Jacob is ego-driven and obsessed with Game Theory, as expressed when he talks to Sara in Episode 2 in the hospital: "See, in game theory, it serves you to be two-faced. Be everyone’s friend, till the moment you’re not. You make them love you so much that when they up against it, their loyalty will make them act against their own best interests. That’s game theory. A cold, rational focus on winning. Even if it’s at everyone else’s expense.”

As for his supposed "love" for Sara and Mike, it is nothing more than isolating and brainwashing them from the truth of his actions. Nothing, and I mean nothing, matters to him other than his desire to gain power, at home and abroad, by any means necessary. If anything, his marriage with Sara is an act of spite toward his agent, and one that illustrates how far he's willing to go to take everything away from Michael's life.

How does he hold up to the standards of the setting?

For those who may not have watched the television series, Prison Break is a dark series where Michael is forced to collaborate with criminals with varying sentences against them. Case in point: one of his recurring team members is T-Bag, a person who killed and raped six children prior to the start of the series as a whole. In and out of prison, Michael also had to deal with corrupt officers like Bellick and an antagonistic covert cabal known as "The Company", whose agents did anything necessary to keep control of the US' government (as seen with Wyatt and Christina's actions). Long story short, it's simply not enough for a villain to kill a character or take a bribe to screw over someone else to clear the heinous standard. He or she would have to cause tremendous amounts of damage to the characters and to the outside world as well.

It's bad enough that Jacob destroyed Michael's and Sara's lives in the seven years between The Final Break and Season 5. It's bad enough that Jacob is willing to betray his own country to support the likes of ISIL in order to advance his agenda. It's bad enough that Jacob has gaslighted Sara and brainwashed Mike into believing that Michael is dead. While any of these are bad on their own, Jacob has the blood of thousands, if not more in Yemen AND in the US, on his hands as a result of his actions.

Jacob Anton Ness not only clears the series' heinous standard but blows it sky high with the amount of personal and international damage he has done.

Verdict

Prison Break has more than its fair share of crooks, meaning that it would take a lot to get another candidate from the show to qualify. So should Jacob Anton Ness (aka Poseidon) be named as the series' 3rd CM? Undeniably, but that's not the point. My point is Jacob is up there with the likes of Rose Armitage, Ego, The High Priestess, and Donald Pierce as one of the most monstrous villains I have seen in 2017. An easy [tup] in my book.

edited 13th Jun '17 1:17:52 AM by sanfranman91

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86892: Jun 13th 2017 at 12:16:41 AM

Jacob seems like an easy [tup], but two questions

  • You say "he despises America's foreign policy and sees the CIA's system as 'slow, stupid, and doomed to fail.'" Is he portrayed as a Well-Intentioned Extremist?
  • Do Wyatt and Christina still count?

sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#86893: Jun 13th 2017 at 12:21:44 AM

[up] Jacob is most certainly not a Well-Intentioned Extremist. This statement is out of pure narcissism, as he believes that he alone can shape foreign policy. He is also willing to hold the world with an iron fist, and often goes directly against America, its foreign policy, and multiple agents from the CIA, NSA, and State Department to get what he wants.

[nja] Christina is an easy [tup] since she's The Man Behind the Man of the first four seasons. That means she was directly responsible for most of the horrific actions The Company take against Michael, Lincoln, and the government, so while Jacob redefined the heinous standard, Christina still qualifies.

Wyatt is certainly less heinous than Christina and Jacob, but I think he'll still counts given his horrific actions like killing a child and then blowing the corpse's head off out of spite have done major damage to the characters and the US.

edited 13th Jun '17 12:38:23 AM by sanfranman91

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#86896: Jun 13th 2017 at 1:46:16 AM

[tup] Poseidon.

BTW can anyone link me Rose's effortpost

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#86897: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:29:45 AM

[tup] to Joe Carrol and Jacob Anton Ness.

So what is the opinion on my proposed rewrites? Any objections?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86898: Jun 13th 2017 at 4:45:53 AM

[up] Look fine to me. Please add to the Drafts.

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#86899: Jun 13th 2017 at 5:19:05 AM

Eeehhh... Jacob at least claims to have come to care for Sara and Mike and that if possible he'd like to just go on with their life together... but considering he's holding Sara hostage at that point, and then lies to Mike with Crocodile Tears that Sara has been killed so now the two of them have to stick together, I guess that rings hollow.

And as far as "acting against America's" interests"... its current interests, maybe, but IIRC he seemed to think he was doing what was best for America in the long term. Though that's by his own extreme standards, so eh. And he admitted breaking out Ramal wasn't any good for America and was all about setting up Michael.

Still, between that and Christina's heinous bar- and a very thought-out writeup- I'll abstain for now. Though I'm kind of tickled at the thought of Hank Lawson, M.D., as a CM.[lol]

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#86900: Jun 13th 2017 at 5:51:35 AM

[tup] to Jacob and a tentative [tup] to Carroll. [tdown] to Jedah and Tso.


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