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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#86676: Jun 9th 2017 at 10:04:08 AM

[up][up]It's probably a holdover from when the thread first formed, and the issue was people not taking the topic seriously at all.

[up][tup]

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#86677: Jun 9th 2017 at 10:04:24 AM

Yeah, ditto, I think this trope is really Serious Business to some people^^

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#86678: Jun 9th 2017 at 10:04:54 AM

I wasn't aware there was a Big Anything.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#86679: Jun 9th 2017 at 10:05:55 AM

[up] The Big Lebowski?

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Camberf Since: Jan, 2012
#86681: Jun 9th 2017 at 10:29:45 AM

@Polar Phantom: Yeah, Frank Fontaine is a true monster- in Burial at Sea he's behind one of the most messed up and uncomfortable scenes that I've seen in a game.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86685: Jun 9th 2017 at 11:35:14 AM

So...recently we discussed personal villains with grand-scale villains. Which CM, in your opinion, combines both the best. This may be recency bias, but Ego's gotta at least be in the discussion.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#86686: Jun 9th 2017 at 11:35:35 AM

I'm sticking to Salazar. I do feel at times because there are so many that my input on a candidate I don't suggest (and sometimes one I do) can get lost in the shuffle.

That said, I'm not a shit stirrer (though sometimes I feel I should be because it gets change done), so much like with Rowan, Deckert and Leeds, I concede on Salazar.

[up]Again, I say Pierce and Rice. If we're talking less in recent memory, I say Ramsay and Frey.

edited 9th Jun '17 11:38:30 AM by futuremoviewriter

MasterGhandalf Since: Jul, 2009
#86687: Jun 9th 2017 at 11:38:34 AM

Here's the right-up for Robert Dare, who got discussed awhile back; it's been the end of the quarter for me at grad school so things have been rather hectic for me, hence why I haven't gotten this done sooner. How's this look?

  • In the Kingdoms of Thorn and Bone, Robert Dare is the ambitious younger brother of King William Dare of Crotheny and one of the key players in the series' Big Bad Ensemble. Self-centered in the extreme, Robert murdered his twin sister Lesbeth - the only person he felt any affection for - in a fit of jealousy because she got engaged without telling him, and later took part in a conspiracy to murder his brother and nieces to clear his way to the throne. Killed himself by the dying William, Robert was brought back to an undead state by a curse and picked up where he left off, usurping his sister-in-law Muriele and attempting to rape her, and having a composer brutally tortured for writing an opera that criticized him. When that same composer tried to kill Robert using cursed music that Robert's undead nature left him immune to, he stole the composition so he could use it as a weapon himself. When Robert's youngest niece Anne arrived at the head of an army to reclaim her throne, he tried to kill her under a flag of truce and then fled north to Crotheny's traditional rival, Hansa, where he manipulated the aging king into declaring a holy war against Anne (with full intention of betraying Hansa too). When Muriele came north to negotiate peace, Robert killed her using his stolen music, only for her knight Sir Neil and handmaiden Alis to finally finish him off for good.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#86689: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:25:16 PM

I know I'm way behind, but ... [tup]Tenebrarum. I actually considered doing an EP on her. Unlike Suspiriorum or Lachrymarum, she's not afraid of getting her hands dirty.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#86690: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:31:45 PM

Wow, I'm sick for a few days and this is what I come back to.

[tup] Tenebrarum, Lee brothers and Parks

[tdown] Xanatos and Salazar

Hey, just noticed Arachnae and Suspiriorum are going to both be members of the "Both my Younger Sisters Are Complete Monsters" club lol

On a more serious note, we really shouldn't be getting emotional and calling out other tropers on this thread. If you're going to say you're angry at some one, take that to PMs or mod intervention is absolutely the solution.

edited 9th Jun '17 1:32:03 PM by 43110

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#86691: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:33:46 PM

@ACW, I know she comes up a lot in these questions but I've gotta say Ragyo on this one... molesting your daughters plus trying to feed the world to alien monster? Goddamn!

edited 9th Jun '17 1:34:02 PM by 43110

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#86692: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:52:09 PM

So...recently we discussed personal villains with grand-scale villains. Which CM, in your opinion, combines both the best. This may be recency bias, but Ego's gotta at least be in the discussion.

M. Bison.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#86693: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:56:08 PM

When's the ETA for the Echoes discussion? I know that the person that reserved it didn't post anything yet because they became busy, but this thread moves super fast sometimes and I want to be a part of the discussion when it's fresh.

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#86694: Jun 9th 2017 at 2:13:15 PM

[up]Well, the two week deadline has passed, so it all depends on when the person who reserved the Effort Post decides to start discussion, I guess.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#86695: Jun 9th 2017 at 2:19:13 PM

[up][up] That'd be me. I'm almost done with Echoes. I'm on Act 5 as of today.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#86696: Jun 9th 2017 at 2:30:36 PM

This is one FE game I know absolutely nothing about, the original or the remake, but from his description on the Wiki Desaix sounds like he might be worth a discussion.

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#86697: Jun 9th 2017 at 2:36:11 PM

@86684: I guess that Palpatine has good arguments in that matter. The only crime he hasn't committed is rape (sexually speaking, at least)

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#86698: Jun 9th 2017 at 3:46:41 PM

Had Palpatine committed grand theft auto?

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#86699: Jun 9th 2017 at 3:49:37 PM

Let's be real though. The only reason Palpatine hasn't commited rape is because Star Wars is PG-13.

[up] Probably. He had the Death Star in his possession. Genocide for him is probably normal.

edited 9th Jun '17 3:59:07 PM by ReynTime250

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#86700: Jun 9th 2017 at 3:53:42 PM

In the EU/Legends continuity, at least, Palpatine was apparently something of a hooligan even before becoming a Sith Lord, so it actually wouldn't surprise me to find out he had stolen a car at some point.

...Er, speeder.


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