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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86626: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:42:12 AM

Should I do an EP just to be sure?

By the way, he's from the same series as Jenna Zan Arbor.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#86627: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:42:59 AM

I'll probably leave that one alone for now.

I also found one for the Stepmother from The Juniper Tree: [1].

edited 9th Jun '17 6:51:18 AM by AustinDR

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86628: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:49:32 AM

I'm, uh, REALLY not sure if that first image is SFW.

edited 9th Jun '17 6:49:38 AM by ACW

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#86630: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:51:51 AM

[up] [up]Yeah, I guess you're right.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86631: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:55:50 AM

[up][up] Safe For Work (the opposite of NSFW (Not Safe for Work).
BTW, if you wanna effortpost Xanatos, go for it, if you think he's heinous enough.

I like the other image though.

edited 9th Jun '17 6:56:03 AM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86632: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:01:30 AM

It doesn't matter how heinous he is. Clear redeeming quality. Doesn't count.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#86633: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:16:41 AM

[tup] to the Lee brothers, Park, and Tenebrarum. [tdown] to Salazar.

edited 9th Jun '17 7:18:30 AM by TommyFresh

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86634: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:20:49 AM

Okay, you know what? I REALLY have to read the X-23 stories if only to satisfy my own curiosity about Rice not being disqualified.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#86635: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:31:52 AM

For a moment, I was scared kylo was considering Xanatos from Gargoyles.

I am VERY relieved I was mistaken.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86636: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:32:49 AM

Aw, hell:

What is the Work?

Jedi Apprentice is an 18-book series for young teenagers, starting twelve years before Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. It chronicles the adventures of Obi-Wan Kenobi as he begins his apprenticeship under Qui-gon Jinn.

Who is the candidate?

Xanatos is a Dark Jedi, former apprentice to Qui-Gon Jinn and head of the galactic corporation Offworld.

What Does He Do?

Xanatos was born the son of Crion, governor of Telos IV. Qui-Gon, who had seen his Force potential, had brought Xanatos to Coruscant when Xanatos was very young. Xanatos proved to be a promising student, skilled with the lightsaber and with a sharp mind. Nine years before the series began, Qui-Gon and Xanatos were sent to Telos IV to meditate a dispute. Crion had become the most powerful individual on the planet and soon corrupted Xanatos with the ideas of wealth and power. A Civil War broke out, with Xanatos taking command of his father's armies and Qui-Gon was forced to kill Crion to end the war. Xanatos, vowing revenge, branded his own cheek with his father's ring and fled. In the intervening years, he founded the Offworld Corporation from the treasury of Telos, primarily as a mining company that stripped planets of their resources out of Greed, including Xanatos' homeworld of Telos IV and banning all parties apart from anything Xanatos supported. But the thought of Revenge on Qui-Gon always lay at the back of Xanatos' mind.

Xanatos returned to Qui-Gon's attention on the planet Bandomeer, where a valuable mineral known as ionite had been found. Xanatos promised the head of the mining there, Veer Ta, that his company would put the planet in good hands. Xanatos also hid ion bombs in the Agricultural Corps' supplies, meant to destroy the planet if his plans did not succeed or if he failed to kill Qui-Gon. He also captured Obi-Wan, then on his way to the Agricultural Corps after failing to find a master. When his schemes were found out, Xanatos escaped, trying to destroy the planet as he left and taunting Qui-Gon about his failure to help the people. However, Qui-Gon managed to rescue Obi-Wan and deactivate the bombs. Qui-Gon subsequently took Obi-Wan as his padawan learner. Xanatos was also responsible for rigging an election with his money.

Xanatos returned to Coruscant with an assassination attempt on Yoda's life, corrupting Obi-Wan's rival Bruck Chun with promises of apprenticeship. He sought to steal the Jedi Temple's treasury and blow up the temple with fire crystals in the fusion furnace, which would implode the temple. Xanatos showed little regard for Bruck, using him more as a tool rather than a protege. He also kidnapped Obi-Wan's friend Bant and attempted to drown her. Bruck lost his life in a duel with Obi-Wan for Bant's life, but Xanatos escaped again, heading for his homeworld of Telos IV. On Telos, Xanatos runs a Bread and Circuses program around an addicting game known as Katharsis to distract the citizens while Offworld plunders the planet. He captures Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan, putting them in a Kangaroo Court on false charges and repeatedly taunting Obi-Wan over Bruck's death. When his schemes were revealed to the populace, Xanatos tried to escape, but was cornered by Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at the edge of a pool of acid. To escape capture and force Qui-Gon to admit that Xanatos was his failure, Xanatos committed suicide by jumping into the pool of acid.

Freudian Excuse?

You Killed My Father. Bear in mind that Xanatos already had an arrogant streak even before Crion reappeared in his life and just the right influence made Xanatos a greedy, genocidal tyrant. Plus, You Killed My Father only goes so far, not sure how much covers attempted Earth-Shattering Kaboom (read: Ronan the Accuser).

Heinousness?

Xanatos is the Big Bad of books one through eight. He has plundered hundreds of planets of their resources, including his homeworld, and attempted to destroy others just for a vendetta.

edited 9th Jun '17 7:35:51 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86637: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:35:55 AM

No. No. N. o.

I don't care what he's done. I don't care how heinous he is. He. Loved. His. Dad. Period. The dad who was killed in front of him. his dad being evil does not matter

edited 9th Jun '17 7:36:41 AM by Lightysnake

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#86638: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:36:13 AM

Eh...I'll probably have to say no for Xanatos.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86639: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:36:32 AM

[up][up]Did you read the rest of it? And bear in mind, it's a kids' series.

edited 9th Jun '17 7:37:09 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86640: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:37:09 AM

I said clearly: it doesn't MATTER.

Why don't you get that it doesn't matter if it's a kids' series or how out of proportion it is or anything of the sort if he loved his father?

edited 9th Jun '17 7:38:35 AM by Lightysnake

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#86641: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:39:36 AM

I see no reason to assume that Xanatos didn't legitimately care for his father. With Ronan he just mentions his family in a throwaway line and it's clear from his actions that he is motivated more by extremism and zealotry. That doesn't appear to be the case with Xanatos.

edited 9th Jun '17 7:40:16 AM by TommyFresh

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86642: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:40:06 AM

Like I said: Xanatos saw his dad die. He broke down over the corpse.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86643: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:42:35 AM

Easy no to Xanatos. And it is tempting to holler for the mods now.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86645: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:44:15 AM

[up][up]Thanks for the heads up. Are you guys going to get on my case like Ambar did, vote down any more E Ps just because it's me who's posting?

edited 9th Jun '17 7:45:34 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86646: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:46:29 AM

Also, another thing for Assassin's Creed, maybe we should split Braddock for both AC 3 and Forsaken. Also did Girolamo really only appeared in the DLC? Because when I bought a used game, I had him and all his actions in there.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#86647: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:48:16 AM

As far as that goes, no. I don't do that, Kylo. But you have to not do this. You know then villain has mitigating qualities and loved his dad.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86648: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:50:01 AM

I just wanted to end the debate in my head. Now it's done. I'm still pissed off at Ambar.

edited 9th Jun '17 7:50:29 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#86649: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:51:56 AM

[tdown] Xanatos, sadly. I guess he'd be 90% monster?

When you have such a clear love, there is no wiggle room. And I've dealt with candidates with much murkier mitigating factors that have been rejected.

So, I beat Bioshock for the first time a couple days ago.

A very, very late but very, very, very enthusiastic [tup] for Frank Fontaine. Literally the only kinda sorta moment that might kinda sorta give someone pause is when he says the Player Character is the closest thing he had to a son, that it hurts to have to kill him. Considering literally everything else, this is more hollow than his promises to the poor, and just strikes me as another attempt to get under the PC's skin, and then he just throws abuse at him again during the boss fight ("I payed good money for you!")

And that's not getting into how he's largely responsible for Rapture's sorry state, the Little Sisters, the Splicers etc.

And I hear he's even worse in Burial At Sea. Pray for me.

Also, an honourary "FUCK YOU" to Dr Suchong and a curtesy "fuck you" to Andrew Ryan. Tenembaum gets my shaking head, a sigh and a pat on the back.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86650: Jun 9th 2017 at 7:52:45 AM

I guess Xanatos is one of those "just doesn't quite make it" types.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills

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