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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#86601: Jun 9th 2017 at 12:57:40 AM

I'll give Goth one more belated yea, although I think her writeup there could be a fair bit more detailed.

Anyways, I'm off to bed, but I'm going to be having a score of Wildstorm candidates in the future... stay tuned for a post on one of the vilest characters I've ever come across tomorrow.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86602: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:00:20 AM

[up] Can't wait for that. Why must you make us wait? tongue

edited 9th Jun '17 1:07:42 AM by ACW

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#86603: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:08:57 AM

@ACW: It was the judge's first major case, and with their connections, the Lees knew that he would be eager to make a good impression with higher ups. The fact that darn near all judges lean "favorable" toward the defendants in their first cases also helps (For the Lees, anyway). Truly sad that something even CLOSE to this went on and was allowed to for so long.

Alright, third Crucible candidate, the ever so polite Mr. Park.

Who is he?

Mr. Park Bo-hyun is a teacher at Ja-ae Academy, and also the most vicious villain in the film.

What has he done?

Park works with the Lee brothers in their taking advantage of hearing impaired children, however unlike the Lee twins, Park targets young boys instead.

Now, Park has the same general stuff as the Lee brothers, what with being noted to rape boys every now and then, however with the added "bonus" of being MUCH more physically abusive than the Lee brothers, but it is his specific treatment of two young siblings that makes him arguably worse than the Lee twins.

Park's favorite victims are two young brothers named Min-su and Young-su, the former being the elder one.

Known to regular beat these brothers, Park's horrifying treatment of them began when he forced them to come to his home one night, where he proceeded to bathe them.

Locking Min-su out of the bathroom, but enjoying the fact that he can still see into the bathroom through a window, Park then begins molesting Young-su as his older brother watches on, but when Min-su starts thrashing at the door, Park exits the bathroom and brutalizes Min-su for several minutes until he is unconscious.

Once Min-su awakens, Park goes on to rape him, then his brother. And this was only the beginning, as every day Park would brutally beat the boys in full view of other students, knowing said other kids wouldn't dare try to stop him lest he turn his attention toward them, and gleefully raped the brothers at his leisure.

Eventually, unable to take the abuse any more, Young-su walks out in front of a bus, successfully committing suicide.

Months pass, and Park's treatment of Min-su only worsens, as he smacks him around for the pettiest of reasons, and, when first chatting with our hero In-ho, Park all but states that the deaf children's physical deformities make them long for something to make them feel like complete people and not just pathetic beings, with said "something" being Park's lust. Eeeeew.....

When In-ho takes the Lee brothers' two favorite victims to the police, Park viciously beats Min-su for information as Headmaster Lee watches on, and, when Lee insinuates that the kids aren't scared of Park anymore due to his old age, Park proceeds to grab up a golf club and prepare to beat Min-su with it, at which point In-ho stumbles across the scene and smashes a vase into Park's head, knocking him out cold.

Later arrested alongside the Lee brothers for accusations of child molestation, Park mainly sits by the sidelines as the Lee brothers and their lawyer attack the prosecuting children and the like.

Ultimately paying off the grandmother of Min-su, the main child prosecuting against Park, to drop all charges against him, Park ends up sentenced to around 8 or 9 months in jail, with 2 years on parole.

Next seen partying with the Lee brothers, Park happily laughs along with them at the simplicity of bribing the judge and paying off Min-su's grandmother to drop all charges.

As Park leaves the party and walks home, he bumps into Min-su along the way.

Attempting to force the boy to come to his home to be raped once more (REALLY don't waste any time, eh?), Park is shocked when Min-su stabs him in the side with a knife, having fallen into despair at his grandmother giving away his chance to put Park away for good.

Park, brushing off the stabbing, smacks Min-su to the ground, where he begins viciously beating and kicking the boy, proclaiming that before he goes to prison, he's going to beat Min-su to death.

Fortunately for us, unfortunately for Park, the film directors apparently wanted us to get some form of catharsis, because, as he prepares to finish Min-su off, Park is overpowered by the boy, who flings the boy off them onto a nearby railroad track.

As a coming train barrels toward them, Park begins freajing out and screaming at Min-su, but, using Park's knife wound, keeps Park held down.

Ultimately, the train runs over both the screaming Park and Min-su, the latter refusing to let the rapist get away with his acts, and they are both killed by the train.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Nope. Even moreso than the Lee bros, Park is just a sadistic bully taking advantage of kids to give himself a power high.

Heinousness?

Worst in-story alongside the Lee bros. While.the brothers have more victims than Park, neither gets up to the brutality that Park does, and his molesting and raping a boy while his brother is forced to watch on, unable to stop it, is an ESPECIALLY nasty move that propels him into CM-dom. The fact that he outright tries to KILL Min-su at the end also stands out.

Final Verdict?

Perhaps even moreso than the Lee bros, Keep Park. What a sicko.

edited 9th Jun '17 1:12:02 AM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#86605: Jun 9th 2017 at 1:53:27 AM

[tup] to Headmaster Lee Kang-bok, Administration Chief Lee Kang-suk, Mater Tenebrarum, Mr Park.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86607: Jun 9th 2017 at 3:03:42 AM

Okay, the day has come! Dead Men Tell No Tales!

I personally didn't even think Salazar was worth it but some users through P Ms convinced me to still effort-post him and that they think he counts.

Who is he and what has he done?

He is a ruthless and murderous undead pirate hunter and captain of a undead Spanish Royal Navy who is bent on exterminating all pirates in the entire world.

In the backstory we learn that back when he was alive, he was a very ruthless pirate hunter and he was stated to have exterminated quite a lot of piraes. We actually see in the flashback him shooting many ships and sinking them. We see pirates begging for mercy but Salazar says "leave no survivors!" H Is crew shoots them dead. At this same moment he meets another pirate ship with teenage captain Jack Sparrow on it. Jack Sparrow outsmarts Salazar and leads him to the Devil's Triangle when Salazar and his crew die.

However, and that is how the movie opens, we see the British Navy ship coming into Devil's Triangle and Salazar sinks it. He only spares Henry Turner (Will Turner's son) and tells him to fInd Jack Sparrow and send him a message about death coming straight to him.

Salazar and his crew managed to escape from the Devil's Triangle. Salazar planned to find the legendary Trident of Poseidon, the mythical artifact which would give him and his crew absolute control over the seas so they could continue their mission and kill all the pirates in the world, starting with Jack Sparrow. Freed from the Devil's Triangle, Salazar and his men continued their anti-piracy campaign by encountering a pirate fleet commanded by Barbossa. Without hesitation, they quickly attacked and destroyed three of its ships. Salazar then orders Barbossa to help him find the Trident and kill Jack at once.

Salazar continues pursuing Jack and his crew and there is another British Navy Ship that also hunts pirates and Salazar sinks it.

During the final battle, Salazar and his crew come back to the being living and Salazar in his pursue of Jack commits his worst action; he leaves his men behind to die. Barbossa performs a Heroic Sacrifice and they both die.

Mitigating Factors?

Not so sure; in the flashback we see how he says that pirates murdered his father and grandfather but this is more like Ronan the Accurser. However, the problem is pirates aren't really that good in the movies so I think you have He Who Fights Monsters there. Despite the movie gloryfying pirates and wanting us to think Salazar is the worst, I just don't see it. We saw Barbossa putting entire town to sword, we saw how nightmarish life on Davy Jones's ship is. And let's not even get to talk about their version of Blackbeard.

Heinous?

Another strike against him. Let's compare him to another pirate hunter Cutler Beckett (who counts). Salazar kills almost exclusively pirates while Cutler Beckett kills anyone associated with piracy including plenty innocents among which were children.

And, also I listed above the actions of the previous villains. The two Navy Ships that Salazar sinks... that can't count toward him since both of those ships were Asshole Victims.

And finally, the only think working in his favor is leaving his own men to die, but that is a norm! Barbossa (who is meant as one of the heroes!) left his own men to die at the hands of the mermaids in the fourth movie. And the actual CM, Blackbeard... his actions revolve mainly around killing his own men and zombiefying them.

Conclusion?

He is certainly ruthless and sadistic. But combining his He Who Fights Monsters traits and the Pirates heinous standard, I don't think he makes it. I was tempted to not even effort-post him but some users insisted. Thoughts?

edited 9th Jun '17 3:05:02 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#86608: Jun 9th 2017 at 4:24:43 AM

Judging by the effortpost, Salazar doesn't sound like a CM. [tdown]

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#86609: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:18:40 AM

I think he does enough. With that, I say [tup] to Salazar.

edited 9th Jun '17 5:42:37 AM by futuremoviewriter

LordXavius Doesn't even like this username from many fandoms Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
Doesn't even like this username
#86610: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:20:32 AM

[tdown] for Salazar. Although ruthless and consumed by vengeance after becoming cursed he still started out with overall noble goals and I don't think he ever fully abandoned them. Being trapped in an undead state for decades is also kind of a rough deal, not to mention I don't feel he meets the heinous standard of the franchise either.

edited 9th Jun '17 5:22:19 AM by LordXavius

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#86611: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:31:49 AM

[tdown] to Salazar. Doesn't sound heinous enough.

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#86612: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:34:38 AM

[tdown] Salazar; doesn't stand out enough.

[tup] Tenebrarum.

edited 9th Jun '17 5:35:22 AM by AustinDR

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#86613: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:43:01 AM

Salazar comes off as hypocritical Knight Templar like Frollo. Also, even if those two ships he kills are fitting under Asshole Victim, it establishes a pattern of him wiping out other ships, pirates or not. He pretty much proves that he's bad news right from the get go, even when he was alive. Plus, those men chose to die for Barbossa and they were overall just a means to an end. Salazar's crew proved far more expendable to him once he was alive again.

This extends to while he's undead too. One of his men walks on shore and dies, he doesn't bat an eye. That's how consumed by his hatred he is.

edited 9th Jun '17 5:44:06 AM by futuremoviewriter

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86614: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:44:47 AM

[up] Future, please, do not edit stuff from your previous post into your newest post.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86615: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:50:02 AM

BTW, Assassin's Creed is all ready to go. I'll wait until Sunday.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#86616: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:52:31 AM

[up] How about we separate Games, Film, and novels with headings?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86617: Jun 9th 2017 at 5:55:14 AM

Abstain on Salazar.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86618: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:01:33 AM

[up][up] Normally I'd agree, but I think in this case they're all the same continuity.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#86619: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:02:26 AM

@emperors Sorry. Also, you forgot when he possesses Henry in order to go on land and when fighting them, taunts them with the fact that if they try to kill him, Henry will die as a result. That's second to him leaving his men to drown.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#86620: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:02:26 AM

[tup] Tenebrarum, the Lee brothers, and Mr. Park.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#86621: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:18:46 AM

[tup] Park. Meanie.

For Salazar, I'll wait. See, I actually chatted with Ravok for a little bit about him, and am interested in what they will have to say. Right now?

I'm leaning against him, but, again, I won't officially vote in him yet.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86622: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:32:31 AM

Draft for Melisandre:

Reunions: Melisandre of Asshai lacks the well-intentioned extremism of her book and TV series counterparts, masterminding a wildfire attack in the prologue that destroys most of Harrenhal. On Dragonstone, Melisandre continues with her Burn the Witch! rituals. Her eventual plan is to sacrifice Shireen to the Lord of Light and has been slipping sedatives into Shireen's food so she won't resist, biding her time until Stannis, who is on his deathbed due to more shadow creations, dies. When Stannis dies, Melisandre attempts to collect Shireen, but her plans are foiled by Davos, who escapes to the North with Shireen. Melisandre leaves Dragonstone, leaving her loyalists to die at the hands of Lannister forces. She journeys to Slavers' Bay, where she masterminds the downfall of the Slaver Cities and the imprisonment of Daenerys Targaryen. Melisandre manages to take control of the dragons without Daenerys knowledge and uses Drogon to rescue Daenerys, while Rhaegal and Viserion destroy the Slaver Cities. With nowhere to turn, Daenerys goes to Asshai with her remaining supporters and Melisandre. Three days after their arrival, Melisandre orchestrates the murders of all of Daenerys' supporters apart from Barristan Selmy and reveals her role in the downfall of the Slaver Cities and her plot to put Daenerys and her dragons in her power and sacrifice them to awaken the Lord of Light.

edited 9th Jun '17 6:36:34 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#86623: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:33:02 AM

Has Xanatos been discussed yet?

edited 9th Jun '17 6:33:44 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#86625: Jun 9th 2017 at 6:40:40 AM

[up] Don't think so, but his character page says he wants to avenge his father.


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