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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#85226: May 30th 2017 at 10:24:26 AM

[tup] Red Skull.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#85227: May 30th 2017 at 10:26:14 AM

Actually 8 months ago some dude on Know Your Meme went and asked on the forums what people thought was the most well-written but also most disgusting villains in media. As you can imagine most are Hate Sinks or C Ms (With some joke posts) Here's a link

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#85228: May 30th 2017 at 10:26:50 AM

Ultraman truly is Superman's opposite.

Supes makes his costume work.

Utraman just looks like a cheap knockoff.

So, he looks like New 52 Superman, I suppose.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#85229: May 30th 2017 at 10:29:56 AM

Actually Ambar, I DON'T remember Superman!Ultraman being mentioned here before. And yikes those outfits are hideous (yet at least he's not wearing underwear on the outside, so there's that).

Let's just do this now:

  • Injustice 2: Brainiac is The Collector of worlds and threatens the universe in this sequel. Shown in a flashback to have stolen Argo City and Kandor before destroying Krypton, Brainiac arrives on Earth after learning that Superman was defeated. Intrigued, Brainiac sends his Betas to round up, scan and vaporize civilians as well as brainwashing several heroes. Stealing numerous cities, Brainiac smiles as he takes Metropolis, after which he seemingly kills Superman. He declares that unless the heroes give him Supergirl to study how yellow sun radiation affects Kryptonian cells, he will order his Betas to self-destruct, igniting Earth’s atmosphere and wiping out all its life; in doing so he betrays Gorilla Grodd and the Society that were working with him. When Supergirl and Batman infiltrate his Skull Ship they find at least dozens of shrunken cities from different worlds giving a small glimpse of the scale of Brainiac’s atrocities. They are captured, Brainiac intending to vivisect Supergirl while dismissively leaving Batman to be killed. Personally murdering Doctor Fate, Brainiac is confronted by Superman, to which Brainiac boasts that he has killed billions of Kryptonians. With countless crimes of theft and genocide, the cold, ruthless Brainiac justifies himself with this line: "I value knowledge. And like your metal trinkets, knowledge is more valuable when it is rare."

edited 30th May '17 11:05:39 AM by ACW

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#85230: May 30th 2017 at 10:34:03 AM

@Polar Phantom

Ironically enough given your joke there, New 52!Ultraman was probably the best dressed version to appear in the comics.

Though the one from the Crisis on Two Earths film is likely the best looking one period.

Sadly both of them belong to decidedly inferior versions of the Crime Syndicate; only the Silver Age really got the concept right. From the Post-Crisis era onwards they've never been done right.

@ACW

They came up in the discussion of the Anti-Matter Brainiac, who hailed from the Post-Crisis version of the Crime Syndicate's world. Your comment at the time was "Ultraman? No trademark infringement?"

edited 30th May '17 10:39:57 AM by AmbarSonofDeshar

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#85231: May 30th 2017 at 10:37:01 AM

[up][up][up] Though it's funny that Nui Harime was the first one to get cited, since that's one villain whose mind was definitely on too different and bizarre a wavelength to count for this trope. Maybe not Blue-and-Orange Morality but close enough to it. The true Monster in that series got mention too at least.

edited 30th May '17 10:37:29 AM by ANewMan

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#85232: May 30th 2017 at 10:40:11 AM

Alright, I'm going to knock off my writeups now and get to some more candidates as the week progresses:

  • Xombi:
    • Leland Crowne is the fanatical leader of the Beli Mah cult, and a madman hellbent on imposing his version of order on the world. Seeking to shatter everyone as an individual, Crowne creates agents for the Beli Mah called Painful Inscriptions via infusing negative emotions into people he abducts, painfully transforming them into the embodiment of that emotion – the worst instance of this being when he funnels the emotions into a pregnant woman, resulting in her giving birth to two babies who's lower halves are giant hands. Using the Inscriptions to assassinate any threats to the cult, regardless of civilian casualties, Crowne painfully transfuses Xombi himself into an Inscription and gleefully has him butcher his own friends. Crowne's ultimate goal is to turn the angel Israfel into an Inscription – regardless of the potential of killing millions in the process – with intent to exterminate the rival cult of the Veil before breaking everyone worldwide. Apathetic even to the deaths of his own devoted followers, Crowne is devoted only to his delusional idea of “truth.”
    • Roland Finch, from the 2011 revival, is a seemingly charming man only out for self-advancement. Perpetually pursued by various enemies he's made in his long history of deceit, Finch seduces a woman named Annie Palmer, integrating himself with the Ninth Stronghold. Finch subtly tears the entire civilization apart through his manipulations before murdering the twin rulers of the Stronghold and massacring the survivors himself, casting Palmer down to Earth to live her remaining days alone. Intending to completely wipe out the twenty other Strongholds to enjoy the luxury of the Stronghold alone, Finch manipulates Palmer's desire to go home and continues using her as a pawn, having her slaughter a prison and release a prisoner he's infused with the embodiment of rage itself, fully intending on awakening the entity and having it kill Palmer once he's done with using her. Never shown denying how self-absorbed he is and instead opting to revel in it, Finch is little more than a cruel, manipulative snake of a man willing to use and abuse people as he sees fit.

  • Scars: John Wakefield is a seemingly unassuming schoolteacher who turns out to be a petty psychopath who enacts a disturbingly out-of-proportion revenge against the teenage girl who spurned him. After he's humiliated, John Wakefield abducts a cheery student who bears a coincidental resemblance to his ex-girlfriend and proceeds to torture, mutilate, and savagely rape her daily for three months on end, finally cutting apart the girl while she's still alive and mailing her dismembered remains to his ex-girlfriend. Horrifying even hardened cop John Cain, Cain decides to execute Wakefield himself after Wakefield defiantly screams Cain can't legally touch him.

  • Revenger: Mr. Groan, the head of Hotel Neptune, uses his business as a front for an underage prostitution ring. Abducting children from all over the city, Groan has the children repeatedly raped by his perverted clients, raping some of the children himself on occasion before tossing them out onto the streets once he's done with them. Brutally murdering the father of one of the abducted children once he tries to attack Groan, Groan is ultimately revealed as a Russian robot – which spurs him to spitefully self-destruct and obliterate the entire town in the process.

  • Inhumanoids:
    • Metlar is the tyrannical leader of the Inhumanoids. The former slave of Sslither, Metlar overthrows and imprisons his former master before waging a genocidal war against the Mutores in urge to dominate the planet. Awakened from his seal eons later, Metlar launches an all-out attack on Earth with his fellow Inhumanoids, razing a Soviet weapons department to a smoldering heap and stealing several cluster missiles while having his servants attack and destroy all they can. Metlar's ultimate goal is to use the missiles to obliterate the crust of the Earth and drown the entire world in fire, killing everything – his own loyal servants not excluded – so he can rule over the ashes that remain. Throughout the rest of the series, Metlar brutalizes and threatens to torture his own minions for every slight and attempts to destroy everything he can get his fiery talons on.
    • D'Compose, Metlar's terrifying second-in-command, is a hulking, undead monstrosity who pulled an entire city underground to turn it into his personal domain, killing everyone who lived there and reducing the city's knights into his undead slaves, cursed to wander the ruins of the town forevermore. Able to painfully transform anyone he touches into his undead slaves, D'Compose demonstrates his powers on the noble scientist Sandra Shore and tries to use her to kill her own friends, eagerly decomposing anyone he can whilst aiding Metlar in his conquest. D'Compose's vilest actions come when he has Blackthorne Shore amass countless disaffected teenagers into a cult in his name, reducing them all to his decomposed slaves and having them attack the nearby city, proclaiming his intention to shroud the world in darkness and turn all that lives into the undead.

edited 30th May '17 10:40:57 AM by Scraggle

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#85233: May 30th 2017 at 10:42:00 AM

Please get rid of the "as cold and ruthless as ever" line. It adds nothing but the assumption the reader knows who Brainiac is and how many times we've voted him up.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#85234: May 30th 2017 at 10:43:46 AM

Well with all the Azog stuff done, I can move on to my Cho'gall effort post. I wasn't sure I had anymore Warcraft candidates, but the recent Chronicles volume 2 gave him some extended backstory that I think pushed him over the line. I'll post the effort post later today.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85235: May 30th 2017 at 10:44:31 AM

Go for it, Lore. Actually, I was meaning to ask you...was the raid for Kil'Jaeden in the Tomb of Sargeras ever completed?

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#85236: May 30th 2017 at 10:44:56 AM

A little late yes to Injustice Brainiac und a Ja to der Red Skull.

Its interesting how some of these comic C Ms almost always get adapted as monsters, while others, like say Green Goblin or Darkseid often don't hit the same mark in other adaptions.

No to the Slavers.

I will say I am not sure how much Regime Superman bothers me, because heroes having evil counter parts in other universes is such a stable trope, it shouldn't surprise us. The real Superman came and kicked Regime Superman's butt last game.

The DCUA gave us two different fascist Superman characters. The Hulk has a mass murdering rapist tyrant future counterpart and Hulk facing down this evil version of himself is one of his best stories. Sometimes a hero facing an evil version of himself can make him stronger in the process. Alternate versions of the same character are not always same as their original counter parts.

Look at Star Trek, the fact that Kirk, Sulu, Chekov, Major Kira, Worf, Odo, Archer, Hoshi, etc are all evil psychopaths in the Mirror Universe, doesn't do anything to make their Prime counter parts less heroic.

@ Ravok, are just covering Marvel prose novels from the 70s and 80s? I remember the Marvel propose novels from the 90s, but most of those tried to be in canon with the regular Marvel universe, so there may be no reason to cover those novels.

edited 30th May '17 10:54:13 AM by Overlord

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#85237: May 30th 2017 at 10:45:55 AM

I stand corrected Ambar. You have a better memory than me apparently [lol]

Scraggle: Drafts please.

[up] I remember those 90s Marvel novels! I don't know how canon they were, but I had/have quite a few of them.

edited 30th May '17 10:47:09 AM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#85238: May 30th 2017 at 10:46:20 AM

[up][up] These are the 70s — 80s books. Holocaust for Hire in particular was released in 1979.

edited 30th May '17 10:46:28 AM by Scraggle

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85239: May 30th 2017 at 10:46:32 AM

For Fairy Tail, I'll be doing an EP for the final keeper shortly. He's already up, but I don't think he was ever given a proper EP

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#85240: May 30th 2017 at 10:47:07 AM

The raid for Kil'jaeden hasn't opened up quite yet, but I can say with almost absolute certainty that he will be Killed Off for Real in the raid.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#85241: May 30th 2017 at 10:47:56 AM

When's that set to open, out of curiosity?

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#85242: May 30th 2017 at 10:49:23 AM

[up][up][up][up] I was just curious as to whether Ravok was only covering novels from that time period.

Anyway, I may have a DC prose novel example soon.

edited 30th May '17 10:49:42 AM by Overlord

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#85243: May 30th 2017 at 10:49:59 AM

BTW, Scraggle, do the two Xombi entries both go after Sugarman?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#85244: May 30th 2017 at 10:51:13 AM

Yes. Crowne debuted in the arc immediately following Sugarman's, if I remember correctly. What I'm wondering is whether or not Finch should actually just get his own entry in the Post-Crisis section... the comic he debuted in is part of the main DC continuity.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#85245: May 30th 2017 at 10:54:25 AM

Yeah, that's a good question...I'll leave that decision up to you (are there any other current Vertigo or Wildstorm characters like that?).

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#85246: May 30th 2017 at 10:55:09 AM

I will say I am not sure how much Regime Superman bothers me, because heroes having evil counter parts in other universes is such a stable trope, it shouldn't surprise us. The real Superman came and kicked Regime Superman's butt last game.

There's a way to do it well and a way to do it poorly. Injustice does it very poorly, at least in my opinion. In any case, that's probably a discussion better suited to PM, or one of the other threads.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#85247: May 30th 2017 at 10:58:08 AM

See, with Finch, I'm not exactly sure... I'd normally just opt to put him under Post-Crisis, but the Cosmic Retcon that fused the Milestone universe with the DC one didn't actually affect the events that had happened in the Milestone universe any... it simply relegated them to a new continuity (and with the retcon in mind, made it so that they'd always been a part of that continuity... a few of the characters remembering the old world aside). All the events that happened in the 1994 Xombi series are still entirely canon to the 2011 series (Sugarman gets a direct reference and everything, among other bits).

edited 30th May '17 10:59:25 AM by Scraggle

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#85248: May 30th 2017 at 10:59:42 AM

I don't know, maybe just "Roland Finch, from the 2011 revival which takes place in the DC universe..."?

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#85249: May 30th 2017 at 11:01:20 AM

Mmm... that's needlessly complicated. Just file it under the Milestone header for now, I think. That's the easiest option.

hopeshalllive Since: Jan, 2016
#85250: May 30th 2017 at 11:02:40 AM

Ok, ACW I do have a problem. When I went to the CM draft page to put my Azog writeup, it said the edit was locked? What is wrong with the draft page?


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