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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#84726: May 27th 2017 at 11:40:15 AM

[tup] to Blackthorne.

Okay that's 9 [tup] 0 [tdown] to Doctor Arcularis. As I have a few more candidates from the series to propose, I'll wait till the end before I do their write ups.

Speaking of write ups, sorry these took so long and turned out so long:

edited 27th May '17 11:42:38 AM by MGD107

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#84728: May 27th 2017 at 11:41:40 AM

Unfortunately, Inhumanoids was never given a genuinely proper conclusion, so the villains are "down, but not out" by the end.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#84730: May 27th 2017 at 11:57:22 AM

[tup] Blackthorne... great, not thrilled they're all gonna be Karma Houdinis, was hoping at least Metlar would get what was coming to him.

edited 27th May '17 12:05:12 PM by 43110

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84732: May 27th 2017 at 12:24:32 PM

No, unfortunately... pretty much every recurring villain here (and even numerous one-shots like Nightcrawler and Sslither) gets off scot-free at the end. Anyways, Blackthorne is a yea.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#84733: May 27th 2017 at 12:38:39 PM

Maaaaaan and with all of D'Compose's running away you just know he would have had a really satisfying Villainous Breakdown.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#84734: May 27th 2017 at 12:39:37 PM

On another note, some of the Inhumanoids character designs are fucking sweet!

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#84735: May 27th 2017 at 1:00:57 PM

[tup] Arcularis and Blackthorne-who-is-not-the-same-Blackthorne-from-the-Blizzard-game-Blackthorne-who-is-the-best-hero-ever.

On a side note, you say pure comedy films can't have a CM? Well, I'd argue against the films discussed as being pure comedies, they're more action-comedy with a hint of thriller (?).

And if a comedy film can't have a CM, I'm sorry, but Galaxy Quest. Saris is one of the nastier Alien Overlords we've seen. Now, I doubt Baywatch and Snatched will have any candidates, but let's not write them off entirely? Maybe we'll be surprised?

I'm saying this knowing that people have seen these already and they would already know, but I still think it's good etiquette for the FUTURE

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#84736: May 27th 2017 at 1:08:17 PM

With comedy films....if the villain is played seriously, I would say that it's possible. For instance, there's Lord Ge Qian Hu from Monster Hunt; while most of the film is comedic, he is consistently played seriously.

edited 27th May '17 1:17:30 PM by AustinDR

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#84737: May 27th 2017 at 1:13:50 PM

Action-comedies and horror-comedies have an interesting tendency to have a Knight of Cerebus that could be a CAM. See also:

However, I can say from personal experience that the easiest comedy for a CM is the unintentional kind.

edited 27th May '17 1:14:20 PM by DemonDuckofDoom

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#84738: May 27th 2017 at 1:23:14 PM

We just voted up the second CM in two Guardians of the Galaxy movies, which are clearly action-comedies.

Also, Judge Doom.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#84739: May 27th 2017 at 1:29:24 PM

Late yes to Inhumanoids villains though I hate voting up Karma Houdinis.

Also, has anyone read Lords of the Sith? Palpatine might have some additional crimes in there.

edited 27th May '17 1:29:33 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84740: May 27th 2017 at 1:39:14 PM

[up] Is that even possible? Like, the only crimes Palpatine HASN'T committed are rape and, maybe, genocide (though I'm sure he's done the latter at some time).

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#84741: May 27th 2017 at 1:42:07 PM

Obviously there have been comedies that have had Complete Monsters. They are still not all that common and there's no reason to assume that it will be worth discussing a villain from a comedy in this thread.

Anyway, [tup] to Blackthorne.

[up][up] I've read it and honestly I don't think we need to add anything. He forces Vader to slaughter a village of people who had helped them but Palpatine does so many evil things that this hardly seems worth mentioning to me. We don't need to list every one of his crimes, his entries on the Star Wars page do a good enough job explaining why he is a Complete Monster.

edited 27th May '17 1:42:34 PM by TommyFresh

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#84742: May 27th 2017 at 1:57:57 PM

[tup] Blackthorne.

On the topic of comedy films with C Ms, just like every media out there, wait and see. It's a possibility. Don't write them off so quickly.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#84743: May 27th 2017 at 2:02:46 PM

[up][up] Now I think that is horrifying. Ungrateful Bastard. However, I guess we don't.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#84744: May 27th 2017 at 2:12:07 PM

[up] I mean it is pretty awful, it's just that he does something horrible in every appearance. If he didn't do so much it would probably be worth mentioning. But it's pretty much business as usual for Palpatine.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#84745: May 27th 2017 at 2:16:03 PM

I wonder if Lucasfilm has some mandate that every appearance Papa Palps has he has to commit another atrocity?

I imagine there's a big mandate to NEVER give him mitigating factors as well.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84746: May 27th 2017 at 2:20:31 PM

Well, I remember something was mentioned on this thread, and found this. Thank GOD that never happened.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#84747: May 27th 2017 at 2:22:47 PM

Alright. I got out of Snatched and I thought maybe given the material, there could be a keeper.

There's not. The heinous standard is not high enough for anyone to count and too much is Played for Laughs. The Big Bad also is genuinely upset when his nephew is killed and more visibly so when his son is killed. So there you go. And the guy who helps abduct them is not shown to do enough to establish and seems legitimately fond of Amy Schumer as well.

edited 27th May '17 2:39:34 PM by futuremoviewriter

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#84748: May 27th 2017 at 2:27:13 PM

[tup]Arcularis and Blackthorn

Abstain Shovel knight villain because I plan to play the game.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#84749: May 27th 2017 at 2:57:34 PM

[up][up] Has the discussion date been reached?

I mean, I barely care, but rules are rules.

43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#84750: May 27th 2017 at 3:01:50 PM

[up] According to Wikipedia it was released everywhere in the States on May 12th after an early release in New York ten days before... as of the 26th it's fair game.


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