TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Wuz Since: Jun, 2013
#84326: May 21st 2017 at 8:57:19 PM

I want make a few changes to the SCP-993 entry in Monster.SCP Foundation:

  • For the line: "...shown graphic acts of Bobble committing murder and other evil acts.", replace "murder and other evil acts" with "murder, cannibalism, torture, and other evil acts."
  • For the line: "Behind the scenes, Bobble describes himself as reaching into the heads of children and happily twisting them." Add the following line after it:

    It was also revealed that his acts of violence might not be entirely fictional as he dismembers a Foundation doctor on TV and causes the doctor to disappear in real life.
  • Also, for the James Anderson entry, delete the first "young" in the part "...young girls as young as eight..."

I will be posting it to the locked pages edit thread later (I don't think I need to go through this thread), but since I had just posted in that thread (I don't want to doublepost two different topics in succession) and just to be safe I'm posting them here first.

edited 22nd May '17 5:04:57 AM by Wuz

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#84327: May 21st 2017 at 8:58:45 PM

Ravok: I personally don't see it as edgy garbage, but rather just misguided and disappointing more than anything. I assume they were trying to go for a "people who sexually abuse children are scum" kind of story but... to do it to him of all people? Comics are weird I tell ya. :p

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#84328: May 21st 2017 at 9:02:26 PM

[tup] Mort/Scavenger/Barracuda, despite how ludicrous and tastelessly grimdark that sounds.

[up] Honestly, having a villain who turns himself around because he decides he wants to help children sounds far more interesting than it just appearing that way before it's revealed that he was exploiting, raping, and killing children all along and he's just a one-dimensional irredeemable lunatic. They should've just left Mort alone.

edited 21st May '17 9:03:01 PM by ANewMan

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#84329: May 21st 2017 at 9:02:59 PM

Reminds me of a time when a throwaway line had one of the frigging Wreckers murdering a bunch of kindergartners for no reason.

MorningStar1337 The Encounter that ended the Dogma from 🤔 Since: Nov, 2012
The Encounter that ended the Dogma
#84330: May 21st 2017 at 9:35:15 PM

[up] This this gonna be the prelude of a Transformers writeup?

edited 21st May '17 9:35:46 PM by MorningStar1337

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#84331: May 21st 2017 at 9:36:13 PM

The Wreckers are a group of recurring Elite Mooks in the Marvel Universe.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#84332: May 21st 2017 at 9:42:37 PM

Yeah, the Wrecker? The Thing is grousing how he broke out of jail and murdered a bus full of kindergartners just to prove a point.

The guy is a BANK ROBBER with occasional property damage.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#84333: May 22nd 2017 at 12:19:33 AM

"Must be the "Turning generic crook into super child rapist" that's doing it."

That is why this pisses me off. The writers had a basic, somewhat generic villain who was well on his way to redeeming himself. Which yes, that's cliché, but somewhat believable, if not even understandable. Then the writers said "Fuck it. Turn him into a pedophile. That'll draw in an audience." It's completely out of nowhere and there was no hint to it at all; it's a perfectly example of a Shocking Swerve. They did this purely because they knew it would shock people. Nothing else.

Let me put it like this: say there's a villain who kidnapped one of the protagonists. However, while the protagonist is held locked inside their cell, they escape using heat vision. Which makes more sense: if the story in question is a sci-fi, where it has already been shown to us that a majority of the characters have their own super powers, or a modern-day thriller like, say, Homeland, where there is absolutely no fantasy or sci-fi presence shown or even hinted at whatsoever? Which of these is a good case of The Reveal? Which of these is an egregious case of an Ass Pull yanked from the writers' bowels?

We have nothing against people proposing over-the-top villains or villains who are "edgy" or whatever. I'm pretty sure at least a third of the currently approved CMs fall into that category anyway. None of us are irritated with you, Ravok. But everyone in this forum is smart enough to realize that the writers of this comic did this for literally no reason except because they were bored and didn't know what to do with this villain. That's just shitty writing on their part.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84334: May 22nd 2017 at 2:20:22 AM

"We have nothing against people proposing over-the-top villains or villains who are 'edgy' or whatever. I'm pretty sure at least a third of the currently approved C Ms fall into that category anyway."
And probably 90% of Ravok's [lol][lol]

I'm abstaining on Barracuda. I'm not gonna vote no, but it seems like such an Ass Pull that I refuse on principal to vote yes.

Stellarvore: Please add Art's rewrite to the drafts. No discussion at all about BOB would probably be best.

Wuz: Rewrites look good; maybe wrap a I'm a Humanitarian around "cannibalism" and make it "girls AS young as eight".

Ambar: Done.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#84335: May 22nd 2017 at 4:45:07 AM

Cobra Commander is how you do a Darker and Edgier take on a classic goofy villain right.

Pretty much everything he does isn't too removed from the original incarnation, you just take away his redeeming qualities, make him much more competent and not make him a joke.

Reboot!Rita is another decent example: She wouldn't be too out of place in one of the darker Power Rangers or Super Sentai seasons. The only thing that would be off with her is some of her more violent kills. In terms of personality and goals? Fits right in.

Wuz Since: Jun, 2013
#84336: May 22nd 2017 at 5:03:45 AM

edited 22nd May '17 6:20:08 AM by Wuz

TellAll111 Since: Jun, 2010
#84337: May 22nd 2017 at 6:29:28 AM

[up][up] Zorak from the 2005 Space Ghost comic is pretty effective too.

I also find it interesting when CM's find their way into goofy works like the aforementioned Ronan and Ego and also Tauras Bulba, Dick Hardly, Francis- sorry Ajax, Sarris, and Dag

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84338: May 22nd 2017 at 6:40:31 AM

[up] Actually, PPG could get pretty dark at times.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#84339: May 22nd 2017 at 7:27:11 AM

That's true. Who could forget "Speed Demon". Cartoons seem to go in cycles of just how dark their allowed to get.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84340: May 22nd 2017 at 7:31:21 AM

"Abracadaver" was also pretty dark.

edited 22nd May '17 7:31:32 AM by ACW

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#84341: May 22nd 2017 at 7:47:50 AM

[tup] Barracuda.

Is it me or is the Internet more critical of edgelords now than they ever been?

MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#84342: May 22nd 2017 at 7:49:35 AM

I'll just do an EP on the villain from the All Just a Dream world I mentioned yesterday, Drawn To Life.

What's the work?

Drawn To Life is a game series with a deceptively cute visual style hiding themes of slavery, decay of the government and much more. the Big Bad of this series is Wilfre, a mysterious shadow person who causes everything bad that happens in these two games. No exceptions. Your role in this game is as the Creator, whatever you draw in the Book of Life comes to life, hence the game name.

Who is the villain and what does he do?

Wilfre was once a respected member of the Raposa village. He questioned why the Raposa were not allowed to draw themselves in the Book of Life, however. He stole the book and drew his own drawings, but they came out horribly wrong. the Mayor, who is a subverted Mayor Pain, finds him and runs him out of town. Wilfre, angrily, on the bridge, rips pages from the Book of Life and scatters them around the world (yes you recollect them). This takes place in a flashback you see relatively late.


The first thing you see Wilfre actually do in game is steal the book again and kill the mayor. At the end of the game, you, of course, defeat him. He might not sound very bad in the first game, but the second game is significantly Darker and Edgier and will take the majority of this writeup.


The second game's story is started by Wilfre returning. He somehow takes all the colour out of the Raposa village, esentially rendering it gone, forcing the remanining Raposa to flee to a... turtle rock... thing, that you create. He also kidnaps several of the villagers, and causes color to dissipate throughout the entire world. Slowly.


In the game's first world, Watersong, he appears disguised as a man named Salem, who challenge's the town's mayor Rose to a singing competition. If she loses, she loses her voice. Which means she dies. And Watersong also slowly dies without the power of the song, as well. He used an object called a Promise Conch to make sure she takes part, but Salem creates Mooks and disguises them as villagers, which he uses to cheat (as they would obviously vote him to win) and win the singing competiton. Without her voice... everything dies. Her son had then been searching for the Promise Conch, and succeeds, she then tries to give up the power of song to her son, esentially killing herself. I told you this game was darker. You, as God, tell her she shouldn't, and well yeah she's gonna listen to God. Wilfre disguised as Salem then attacks her in the courtyard, and then he sends a Boss to fight you, but not before claiming that 'this town will be in rubble soon.'
Of course, you win, and continue your chasing-of-him to the next world of the game, Lavasteam. Wilfre manages to disguise himself as someone else, too, known as Sock. he pretends to be innocent throughout the game, an adventurer traveling home, so he can get close to you. Around this part of the game, one of the main characters mysteriously leaves the 'turtle rock'. remember this.
In Lavasteam, this is where the slavery bit comes in. The mayor of this village, Miney, is driven to insanity because Salem!Wilfre told him that his brother would betray him and all of Lavasteam. He also mentioned that Miney is too 'lighthearted' for this village. He then tells him to enslave the village with strong robots, of which he does, causing the slavery and inprisonment of everyone in the village. Of course you fix this yet again and everything is happy, prompting you to travel to the third and penultimate world.
Inbetween this level and the next, one of the main characters, the one who left the 'turtle rock', sneaks into the Book of Life's room and tears up the pages. This is a Despair Event Horizon for one of the other main characters, not causing him to know whether his best friend is a good or bad person...


I just want to pause for a moment, and 'take in' how dark this game is. Themes of slavery, willing suicide, and later on, puppet governments really isn't something you'd expect in a game that looks so diabetes-filled from the outside. It's really something. And it's all Wilfre's fault.


The third world of the game is the Galactic Jungle, which doesn't really fit any specific world archetype. It's a galactic jungle. The mayor of this village passed away with no heir to take the reins, the village fell into poverty and despair. Wilfre decided he could take advantage of this, and instructed a friendly Raposa named Click who wanted to become mayor to help people, to create a shadow government and just do whatever Wilfre told him to. He's an absolute Manipulative Bastard, and a master at it. Wilfre tells him to create 'rules' such as 'no sneezing, no running, no telecommunication' and other simple things This is a little bit less dark than the other things he does. However, it causes many members of the village to go to jail for ridiculous reasons. The shadow government is made of dummies. Esentially, it's a dictatorship village with a fake government... After this world, it's the final world of the game, one that Wilfre himself created. Wilfre's Wasteland.
Inbetween these two worlds, you find out that the character who's been traveling with you throughout the entire game, Sock, was simply Wilfre in disguise the whole time. This causes the aftermentioned Despair Event Horizon character to have a change in heart and become more determined to find Wilfre.
This is when you find out what happened to the character who left the 'turtle rock'. She joined Wilfre, after Wilfre showed her something, that something being that this world was All Just a Dream of a boy who was left in a coma after a severe car crash. That boy being a character who was seemingly a Joke Character in the game. It's sort of an Ass Pull, but it's important. Wilfre reveals that he is trying to forcefully keep the boy in the coma so they can live longer. By draining the color, he does this. Bringing it back would Kill Em All. You could say that this is noble, and good of him to do this, but I raise you this.
Wouldn't a boy who was forcefully kept in a coma die eventually anyway? And aren't dreams naturally reoccurant in real life? These two facts, plus the fact that the game sees Wilfre's views as wrong in the first place, make me think that these do not count him as disqualifying for this trope. And judging by what Wilfre's done to the world in the first place, if he had kept the boy asleep, then he would have been a cruel and vicious ruler, who, discounting that the world would die eventually anyway, would probably end up killing it himself.
After being shown that Wilfre's views are wrong, the character who pulled a Face–Heel Turn comes back to the good side again. Eventually, with the combined prayers of the Raposa you've saved from Wilfre throughout the world, Wilfre is Killed Off for Real once and for all.

Mitigating or redeeming features

Redeeming? Nope. Wilfre is always portrayed as the Big Bad of the story. Nothing else comes close to him in terms of the heinous standard. Mitigating? I described the possible factors of Wilfre being a Well-Intentioned Extremist above, but ultimately I don't think he is one. If he did save the world from dying, it would die eventually when the boy dies, and considering the fact that he sees all other Raposa as beneath him, and all the atrocities he's commited towards other villages, and that he never shows ANY remorse for his actions, he would probably only care for himself in this post-Sugar Apocalypse world. Why didn't he just remember that dreams are reocurrant? I don't know. But what I do know, after this surprisingly long effort post, is that he is an evil bastard.


Oh and the dream stuff isn't disqualifying. These characters are fully sentient, even aware that they're in a dream world at the end, but all have their own sense of morals and standards. Like a lucid dream, really, not a typical All Just a Dream setting at all.

Conclusion

This is the type of villain who, in the first instalment, is evil but doesn't do that much, then takes it much, much, further in the sequel, and in both he's the one person orchestrating everything bad that happens, crossing the Moral Event Horizon then reversing over it and crushing it, several times over. [tup]

And yeah [tup] Thawn.

edited 22nd May '17 9:23:42 AM by MahStache

skteosk Since: Feb, 2011
#84343: May 22nd 2017 at 8:03:33 AM

Thanks for the support, MGD! I proposed Thawn partly because he seems as bad as every other one-off villain on the Whoniverse page and partly because he comes close to committing genocide for pretty trivial reasons and has a complete lack of morality that is considered abhorrent even to his peers. But hey, majority rules.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#84344: May 22nd 2017 at 9:00:28 AM

You know, I think I'll give a [tup] to Thawn. He does indeed seem on par with The Marshal and Bennet.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#84345: May 22nd 2017 at 9:26:52 AM

Can someone else do the draft for Declan? I'm taking a break from the thread since no one likes what I write.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#84346: May 22nd 2017 at 9:33:53 AM

[up]Don't feel discouraged by this one comment. Hell, your last write-up seems to show that you are indeed capable of doing better. Keep this up and you won't have a problem anymore here.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#84347: May 22nd 2017 at 9:39:56 AM

On the topic of games and shows that are goofy but have lots of heinous villains I'll say Pokemon counts to a pretty big extent.

Pokemon's heinous standard is honestly pretty high for an E rated game franchise despite having no C Ms at all (Besides the spin off and anime)

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84348: May 22nd 2017 at 9:42:10 AM

Wilfre? Oh, no, he's not one I'm comfortable with going up. Having just replayed the games, Wilfre is vile, vile, vile, but the sentiment of trying to stop Mike from waking up — even through pretty dystopian means — is just sincere enough on his end that I really can't say anything but no to him. The defense brought up in the effortpost posits too much Fridge Horror and not enough in-universe evidence, and there, while Wilfre's motive is poorly thought out and viewed as wrong, hence why he's the villain, there are just enough undertones to make me say no.

See, Wilfre really does act like a two-dimensional cackling baddie, but there's a few subtle nuances to his character I think keep him off. That's sort of the same with a lot of the characters in the second game... part of what makes it such a fantastic game, too. Glad there's someone else out there who's played it as well.

edited 22nd May '17 9:50:46 AM by Scraggle

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#84349: May 22nd 2017 at 9:43:33 AM

[up][up][up]He could have been a lot nicer about it, without it feeling like It's Personal. Apparently, he forgot about some of the Complete Monsters I did do a good job with, like Obadiah Hakeswill, Dragomirov, Adeline March, Dr. Levine and Leo Taymor.

edited 22nd May '17 9:48:47 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
MahStache from Old Jersey, not the bad new one Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
#84350: May 22nd 2017 at 9:53:38 AM

[up][up] It's just the way he goes about doing this is what sticks out to me. He wants to keep Mike from waking, but he does it by driving a village's mayor to insanity, causing a mayor of another to nearly kill themselves, and thus the entire village, and creating a shadow government dictatorship... what he would do if he succeeded is up for debate, but it wouldn't be good.

And yes, I do love this game as well, one of the most underrated game stories ever in my opinion. People look at it from the outside and don't realize how complex the characters and story get. gosh i do do a lot of Fridge Horror for reasoning, I just realized... as I did just above in this very message. I should work on that in the future.

On another note, in the future would anyone mind if I redid Evil? I honestly think I rushed his EP a bit and left out a lot of his crimes... obviously not too soon but maybe in a few weeks. a longer writeup. Or is that not needed?

edited 22nd May '17 9:57:57 AM by MahStache


Total posts: 326,048
Top