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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84301: May 21st 2017 at 5:09:24 PM

No on Thawn. Not convinced he's heinous enough.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#84302: May 21st 2017 at 5:32:42 PM

I respect everyone's opinions, and will say no more after this. But I will stress one final time that Thawn engineers near successful genoicide out of pure hated and greed, as well as being openly gleeful towards the swampies dying and kills one of his own men for being against it, despite being little more than a branch manager.

As a fan of the series, I'm can't say I can think of many other antagonists who are that bad (nearly all of them are on the monster page).

edited 21st May '17 5:36:23 PM by MGD107

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#84303: May 21st 2017 at 5:37:45 PM

Gonna abstain on Thawn for the moment. A late 'Yes' to Tsao the second.

Alrighty, got us a new DC Comcis candidate to discuss.

Who is he?

Peter "Mort" Mortimer, AKA Scavenger, is a minor villain from first Aquaman, then Hawkman.

What has he done?

Making his first appearance in 70s Aquaman issues, Mort is first seen poisoning an entire ocean protected by Aquaman, threatening to kill many of Aquaman's friends and family, notably his wife and child son, in the process.

Mort later becomes a rather generic villain who tries to steal and rob sunken treasure, until eventually he tries to steal medical supplies from a downed boat.

When Aquaman reveals that the medicine he's stealing can be used to cure numerous children who have measles, Mort...shows genuine remorse, helps Aquaman distribute the meds, then becomes an upstanding citizen who even takes an ill boy for a lift to protect him from goons, with the boy later returned home by Aquaman.

.....unfortunately, later writers decided THAT was a weird development, and proceed to retcon Mort's "redemption", and have him become an online criminal known as "Barracuda", usong his new powers granted to him by a spirit animal (A Barracuda) to gain super...."luring" powers (Wut).

Mort then begins a new schtick. But whatever could a C-list, corny supervillain get up to to make him stand out in this dark, DC universe?

I KNOW! Let's make him a freaking Child Serial Rapist!

Yup, you have read that right. Mort becomes a child rapist who lures young boys to him with his SUPER BARRACUDA POWERS, rapes them, video tapes the whole thing and sells it on child porn sites, then lets the kids go, keeping them quiet with guilt and shame.

Except he doesn't release ALL the kids. No, some of them he just rips the hearts out of.....ah, the 90s.

Eventually luring Hawkman to a trap to try to kill him after leaening he is investigating him, Mort is eventually confronted by Hawkman and Aquaman, the latter if whom demands to know why he has turned evil once more and is doing....THAT to children.

Mort responds with a resounding "I got urges, man", then tries to kill the duo with a smile on his face before Hawkman grabs him, slams his face into a nearby computer, then holds the creep's head in place until his face melts off.

Aquaman and Hawkman then find a room FILLED with videotapes of Mort's....escapades, with well over two dozen tapes in the place, and they proceed to burn them all, then set the whole building aflame, ending Mort's evil upgrade of 90s villainy for good.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

None on either end. He git into crime because he could, and while he did help Aquaman cure several children of measles, this is later shown to have just been a trick to get him into good public standing.

It's also a case of Unreliable Narrator, as Mort is talking a kid who he is driving to his house to help him eventually get home....considering what Mort is later revealed to be, thid takes on a much more horrifying undertone, making Aquaman's quick arrival once Mort gets home with the kid much better for the poor child before Mort got antsy.

Oh, and being chosen to be the avatar for a spirit animal doesn't mess with one's moral agency really. Mort acts completely happy with it as it allows him to indulge his "urges" and doesn't show much difference in personality from when he is a common supervillain, so nothing there either.

Heinousness?

Child rape in DC Comics is extremely rare, making videos of child rape even rarer, and ripping the heart out of children is practically unheard of.

While he was an extremely generic C-lister until his final issue, said final issue turns him into a monstrous child serial rapist who has raped and made videos of dozens of kids and straight up murdered some of his victims.

Yeah, I'd say he has quite the unique niche there.

Final Verdict?

Leaning a Keep here.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84304: May 21st 2017 at 5:40:29 PM

Yea to Barracuda/Scavenger. I remember him being nasty.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#84306: May 21st 2017 at 5:52:48 PM

I kind of don't want to vote Barracuda up because that's so utterly modern comics edgelord, but I'm pretty sure we have the old Doctor Light, so.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#84307: May 21st 2017 at 5:56:02 PM

He counts, but...yeah. That's...so bad

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#84308: May 21st 2017 at 5:56:42 PM

[tup] Peter "Mort" Mortimer/Scavenger/Barracuda. Apparently turning a villain into a child rapist for no reason other than reasons is better than having a generic villain.

Logic. just bugs me

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#84310: May 21st 2017 at 6:01:46 PM

[tup] to Barracuda. Wow that story sounds like it's in bad taste.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#84311: May 21st 2017 at 6:03:44 PM

[tup] Thawn and Scavenger (Even my Slasher Movie loving ass thinks that's stupid edgy).

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84312: May 21st 2017 at 6:12:08 PM

Yeah, the whole thing certainly reeks of what they did to Arthur Light... take a previously campy supervillain and, hey, let's make him a rapist for some inexplicable reason.

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#84313: May 21st 2017 at 6:36:35 PM

Yes to Barracuda. First Dr. Light, then him... who's gonna get the "D-lister turned serial rapist" treatment next? Condiment King? Polka Dot Man?

Also I find it kinda funny that if he gets written up, both Marvel and DC will have a CM named Barracuda. Very amusing how life works sometimes.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84314: May 21st 2017 at 6:38:09 PM

[up] "And now I shall rape you... with mayonnaise!"

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#84315: May 21st 2017 at 6:51:00 PM

[up][up] Wasn't there one comic that slightly parodied the idea, by having him (condiment king) kill a few people with mustard gas and everyone was just more shocked that he was actually dangerous for once than that some people had died.

I'm sure I remember something like that.

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#84316: May 21st 2017 at 7:17:48 PM

[tup] Baracuda/Scavenger, one of the more tasteless instances of this trope I have seen.

I dunno about Thawn. I'll think on it more.

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#84317: May 21st 2017 at 7:19:14 PM

[tup] to Tsao, Hannibal, and Peter "Mort" Mortimer/Scavenger/Barracuda (some revamps of C-list villains make them cool or sympathetic; this is just offensive on multiple levels). I do believe he's not the first comics CM called Barracuda; didn't the Punisher have one as well? I don't even think he's the first CM called Mort (though I'm blanking on any at the moment).

Abstaining on Thawn. He sounds like a real scumbag, but the question of the heinous standard gives me pause.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#84318: May 21st 2017 at 7:27:53 PM

[up] Oh yeah, the Scary Black Man with the chainsaw.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#84319: May 21st 2017 at 7:30:12 PM

[tup] To Barracuda/Scavenger. You know now that I'm thinking about it I can give Thawn a [tup] albeit tentatively.

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#84320: May 21st 2017 at 8:10:51 PM

[tup] Scavenger. Dr. Light before Dr. Light, bleh.

IIRC Toyman was also retconned into a pedophile for a while, though it was eventually explained away as a defective robot double.

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#84321: May 21st 2017 at 8:24:34 PM

I maybe should have said so much earlier, but I made some changes to Art's writeup a while back. Plus I'm considering making a few more changes to it now.

  • Complete Monster: Art the Clown is a sadist who revels in torture and murder. He's introduced in the first segment, The 9th Circle, drugging Casey and handing her over to a coven of witches, who prepare her to be raped by the Devil. In the third segment, Terrifier, he viciously murders his way through a number of victims, all the while relentlessly pursuing the costume designer who saw him dismembering the corpse of the gas station attendant. When he finally catches up with her, he dismembers and mutilates her while she's unconscious, removing her breasts and carving a string of vulgar terms into her torso. He spends most of the wraparound segment stalking and tormenting Sarah and the children, particularly Tia, which all culminates in him killing the two children. A frightening and murderous being with whose evil and depravity know no boundaries, Art truly puts the "monster" in Monster Clown.

New version: Art is a sadistic Monster Clown who revels in torture and murder. He's introduced in the first segment, The 9th Circle, drugging Casey and handing her over to a coven of witches, who tie her down to an altar to be raped by the Devil. In the third segment, Terrifier, he viciously murders his way through a number of victims, all the while relentlessly pursuing the costume designer who saw him dismembering the corpse of the gas station attendant. When he finally catches up with her, he dismembers and mutilates her while she's unconscious, removing her breasts and carving a string of vulgar terms into her torso. He spends most of the wraparound segment stalking and tormenting Sarah and the children, particularly Tia, which all culminates in him killing the two children and presumably leaving Sarah to be blamed for the murders. In a movie with demons, aliens, and other less describable creatures, Art stands out as a truly despicable murderer with no real reason for what he does except sheer enjoyment.

Also, after watching parts 1 & 2 of the Twin Peaks revival, I think that BOB's writeup could use some changes, too, though I don't know if I can say what, just yet. It'd be too big a spoiler, and let's just say I can't mark any spoilers in this case.

Oh, and [tup] for Mort.

edited 21st May '17 8:40:48 PM by Stellarvore

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#84322: May 21st 2017 at 8:30:32 PM

[tup] To Hannibal, Barracuda and Tsao.

[tdown] To Thawne and La Femme.

I once propsed a villain named Hardcore, who was from the 90s and he was not as much of a ridiculous edge lord as this Morty guy is. At least Hardcore was a new villain, who's actions fit in with the book he was in, a more modern take on Luke Cage, this just putting Aquaman against a child rapist.

I think sometimes taking a C-list villain and making them a monster works and other times it doesn't.

Purple Man and Scarecrow (Marvel version) were pretty generic until they were written as monsters and that worked well for them. Scarecrow has kinda fell back into being a generic villain, lately. Even Bullseye was kinda generic when first introduced.

It clearly doesn't work with other villains, like this guy and attempts to make Dr. Light and Puppet master into monsters.

It would be beyond ridiculous if Stilt-Man became a rapist/serial killer who beats people to death with his giant legs.

I could see someone like Mysterio becoming more evil though, I kind of bought the changes Kevin Smith made to the character, even if they didn't stick.

edited 21st May '17 8:48:01 PM by Overlord

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#84323: May 21st 2017 at 8:43:17 PM

The attempt to turn Doctor Light into a rapist is a case in point of what I was talking about earlier when I noted that personal evil =/= better villain. It made him qualify for the list...but it also made him staggeringly lame. I miss the actual sixties (rather than the bogus version of it that Identity Crisis paid "homage" to) when he was a reasonably competent Mad Scientist.

@ACW

The line about "these two Grolim evil sorcerers" above Harakan and Zandramas sounds clunky and can probably go. Harakan's entry already says he's from The Malloreon and Zandramas' entry coming right after his should sell that. Alternately, we can simply adjust the first line of her entry to say "The Big Bad of the Malloreon" instead "of the series".

edited 21st May '17 8:47:30 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#84324: May 21st 2017 at 8:52:14 PM

I find it so humorous that of all the characters and such I've proposed, THIS is the one that people are denouncing as "shitty edgelord garbage".

Like, it's no lie that the comic is bad and Morty becoming a child rapist was poorly written, but seemingly everyone getting how "tasteless" it was from my rather generic EP is pretty interesting. Cause this is hardly the first time I've proposed a child rapist, let alone a comicbook one.

Must be the "Turning generic crook into super child rapist" that's doing it. :/

edited 21st May '17 8:52:50 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#84325: May 21st 2017 at 8:57:18 PM

[up] I mean, considering the circumstances? Your other rapist characters started out as rapists. This is changing a pre-existing character into... a rapist, just for shock value.


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