During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Matan, Tavares, Womg, Robert and Cecil
So everyone agrees Ragyo is the worst mom CM. Shocker.
Wong, Absalom Cecil, Legate Matan, Father Tavares.
Happy Birthday, Austin.
Fucking hell, we lost another actor.
RIP Powers Boothe.
Tavares and Matan
Happy B-Day Austin DR
Sad to see another actor die.
Okay now that I have return from Mother's Day (don't ask me how much it cost me) along with unanimous
for Sutcliffe here is his write-up:
Lord Sutcliffe from season 36's "Thin Ice" is an amoral business man from Victorian London who happens to capture an alien sea creature. upon trapping it into the bottom of River Thames, Sutcliffe found a particularly vile way of using the creature for his own personal gain. During the Frost Fairs he would lure innocent people onto the ice where he would feed to the creature. The creature would then defecate the human remains to which Sutcliffe would then mold the feces into brick to profit from. Sutcliffe has done this for many years racking a bodycount of possibly hundreds. When the last frost fair finally occurs in 1814, Sutcliffe decide plant explosives onto the ice's surface to detonate, destroying the ice and causing dozens of people to be devoured by the creature, and later straps The Doctor and his latest companion, Bill Potts, onto them. Upon witnessing the two escape and warning people to get off the ice, Sutcliffe goes forward with his plan and detonates the explosives attempting to kill them and anyone else still on the ice. A self-admitting sociopath whose sole motivations is Greed, Sutcliffe is a perfect example of the series recurring theme, that sometimes even amongst the extraterrestrial, Humans Are the Real Monsters.
I'll send this to the drafts pronto.
edited 15th May '17 12:24:22 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI think Boothe only had one CM (though Senator Roark was certainly heinous enough). RIP to him.
Crown (you had me at "had ordered the deaths of all of said the main witness's little kids"); Cecil; Tavares ("while excusing it as himself being oh-so pure that they aren't really sins"...Ugh, one of THOSE); and Matan.
On the topic of CM mothers, I've noticed that the fact that there aren't many female C Ms in the first place really impacts CM mothers. There are so few of them it's nearly strange. Of the few there are the wost is easily the one from KLK though.
I'll do Marosi's writeup when I can, will also have to make the main page for The Five. I'm glad one of my examples actually got through.
to Tavares, Crown and Matan.
edited 15th May '17 2:13:05 AM by MahStache
Okay
to Robert Dare, Sergeant Wong, Absalom Cecil, Father Tavares and Legate Matan.
Happy Birthday Austin.
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Write up looks good, but just a few nitpicks, 1814 was still the Regency era, Queen Victioria didn't come to the throne until 1837. Also I'm not sure if you need to pothole who the Doctor is. You might want to specify how Sutcliffe profits from all, namely using the feces as fuel.
Happy birthday, Austin.
Alright, I think I have as many votes as I'm gonna get on Olivier, so I'll do his writeup. For the sake of length — and because he wasn't killed by Olivier — I'll skip the part about Padini:
The Nightmare Never Endsnote : Olivier is a demonic Man of Wealth and Taste and leader of a Satanic cult who has been involved in many totalitarian regimes over many centuries. He's introduced in a Nazi uniform, ordering the execution of an entire room of people because one man failed to meet his quota with Hitler. In the present day, a Holocaust survivor named Weiss, who lost his family to Olivier, attempts to hunt him down when he finds out that he's still alive, only for Olivier to assume his true form and brutally murder him. Suspicious of Weiss' death, Lieutenant Stern investigates Olivier, and ends up crushed by a demonic creature summoned by Olivier, who then sets his sights on the Nobel Prize-winning atheist author, James Hansen, who just released a book entitled God Is Dead. He forces James into a meeting and attempts to recruit him to his cult, and crucifies him when he refuses. Then he goes after Claire, who's been tasked by God to kill him and remove his heart. She captures him and tries to cut his heart out, but ends up killing another nurse instead, and Olivier kills her offscreen.
edited 15th May '17 7:57:31 AM by Stellarvore
May all that's good happen in your life, Austin. Happy birthday and be well, my fellow troper.
Another year, and yet another famous actor goes away...R.I.P Powers Boothe.
On topic: I see that Alien: Covenant is not listed in the discussion date sandbox. Should I talk about the film here, or reserve discussion for a later date?
I could live with that; strange that we have Hanguk Manhwa Aenimeisyeon (Spackles; probably Sky Blue) in other media though, but whatever (shrug).
What about Light Novels, or are they close enough to Manga?
edited 15th May '17 9:09:49 AM by ACW
You know when I said that there would possibily not be any qualifiers from the Hearts Of Iron 2 Game Mod Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg? We may have a possible qualifier—and it's the sort of Mordenkaiser or Not Important sort of character where the player character technically can play as the character but cannot change their evil nature(the reason I didn't propose anyone from the mod before was because in the mod, even characters that were canonically full-on Nazis or Totalitarian Leftists in the lore of the mod could be played as benevolent dictatorships, or got little characterization and were part of extremist movements treated as groups, and not to mention the atrocities of the arguable "worst" character in the setting is completely inferred), I will admit that I myself am not on if said character actually qualifies or not due to the heinousness bar of the setting, the vague characterizations of the historical individuals that appear in the game, and how said character uses their resources in contrast to others, but I would want to run this through first and I think it can go both ways.
This character debuted in the content update for 0.4 on the 7th, so a discussion would be on the 21st.
Also I will be away from this thread on Friday since I have not seen Go TG 2 yet, but I will return on the 21st or 22nd to discuss the possible candidate from Kaiserreich.
edited 15th May '17 10:01:19 AM by xie323
Marosi writeup
Jakob Marosi is a background antagonist, Serial Killer and child molester from the past, who despite only appearing in four episodes, is very important to the plot of The Five, and the most heinous character in the series. He had lured 5 children in the past, filming each of his rapes on three tapes labeled Track, Pain and Kill. His sixth victim would have been Jesse if his father had not come along just in time. Along with these crimes, a family appears to treat him as a god, with a shrine to him in their closet, and believe that he was possessed while committing the aftermentioned child rapes. In the present day, he apparently confesses emotionally to Mark and a police officer where Jesse is buried, but when they get there, it turns out he lied and just did it to get out of prison for a little bit. He laughs about this. During all of this, he never shows any remorse for his crimes, even when he admits to doing it. Easily the most evil character in the series, and the only one shown with zero redeeming features, Jakob Marosi stands out in this world of Black-and-Grey Morality.
i should add to drafts.
edited 15th May '17 11:06:02 AM by MahStache
@Daniel 1599 Yes, he doesn't count and no, he wasn't reopened.
I feel like while Cipher's entry had a lot of info in it, it didn't mention being behind Jakande.
edited 16th May '17 7:13:21 AM by futuremoviewriter
Since The Exorcist is renewed for a second season, can I reserve the discussion?
