During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Autarch
Lady
Got a candidate tonight! Before I get to some on my to-do list...
The film is a 1988 Hong Kong film produced by Tsui Hark called Big Heat. The hero is a Hong Kong cop named Wong who's...about to retire due to medical issues affecting his gun-hand, rendering him incapable of of using his gun as well as he needs to. And since in 80s Hong Kong cinema, being a cop is 98 percent crazy gun fights, you can see why this may be an issue.
Then, his good friend and old partner Skinny Tse is murdered. Wong rips up his retirement letter and with a group of dedicated allies sets out to solve the murder....and at the center of it is crooked businessman Mr. Han...
Who Is Mr. Han? What's He Done?
Ching Han is a ruthless businessman with his fingers in the pie of organized crime. Now, before the movie began, Han is working with Russian mobsters and a shipping magnate named Ho. Thing is, Han got careless and was recorded on a wire talking to his Russian contacts. Ho is forced into the arrangements in the worst way: Han has been blackmailing him with pictures of Ho having a homosexual affair with a young man, something that would ruin his reputation. In return for the pictures not being made public, Ho allows Han to use his shipping company to smuggle drugs in for the Russians.
Skinny Tse got the blacmail material, but decided to blackmail them himself. Instead...Han has Tse brought to him, and makes it very clear Tse is a dead man. Tse tries to flee, but trips and falls in a puddle of gas and oil. Han flicks his cigarette, setting fire to Tse before getting in his car and in one of the most ludicrously overkill deaths I've ever seen in a crime film, drives full speed into tse, sending him flying into a bunch of other barrels of oil that then explode.
Wong and team get on the case and piece some of the blackmail material together. They decide to get to Ho, pretending to be blackmailers. This backfires when Ho tries to kill himself. The team save Ho's life and send him to the hospital, only for Han to dispatch a team of hitmen with apparent orders to just shoot everything they see until Han dies....we see a number of civilian casualties, including a little girl, before Ho is successfully killed, leaving the team with only a few clues. Still, they manage to assemble the pieces after a few confrontations with Han himself.
Realizing he's in danger, Han ruins Wong's reputation by transferring 300,000 dollars into his bank account as a bribe and when he discovers Wong sent a drug carton to his girlfriend Maggie who works as a lab tech, Han has Maggie murdered and leaves a bomb to kill the cops there. They manage to survive, but have nothing more to go on...until Lun, one of the group, spots one of Han's men by chance and tails him to a meeting with his Russian contacts.
Unfortunatly, Han cops to it and attacks Lun at his apartment. He tortures Lun and tries to get Lun to roll on his friends. He then says that the only way Lun will get a quick death is to talk, but Lun stays firm...so Han, when he realizes the others are on the way, leaves Lun with a grenade to blow them all up. Lun manages to warn his friends, but dies in the explosion. They track down Han and his men and have an epic battle, resulting in Han's goons wiped out as Han tries to escape in his car. Wong, however, drives a garbage truck after him and smashes Han's car, crushing it into a wall and it then...promptly explodes. The drug smuggling operation is busted and our heroes clear their good name.
Heinous standard?
Only villain. Easily sets it. The Russian mob is a nonentity in the film and none of Han's henchmen stand out besides one dirty cop who's not heinous enough.
Redeeming Qualities?
Utterly zilch. Han is greed and nastiness in an expensive suit with sunglasses, nothing more. He cares nothing for his mooks or anything besides his money.
Conclusion?
Easy keeper. Huge bodycount, sadistic murders and torture do a CM make.
No one from Outlast 2 counts. Knoth and everyone in his cult have been driven insane by radio signals that Murkoff ceated. Knoth and his cult believe that by killing all of their children, they can keep the nonexistent antichrist from being born. He's a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Val and her followers are trying to bring about the antichrist, and they lack Knoth's good intentions, but they are still insane due to the radio signals. The executive in charge of building the signals to test them out on the area is never met in person. Father Loutermilch is the Hate Sink of the game, and the one character we see who is genuinely evil, but he's not bad enough for the setting.
jjj
Ching Han (according to IMDB).
Funny bit of trivia: Also according to IMDB, there's a character credited as "Gangster Who Gets Hand Blown Off"
Reminds me of some of the credits
for Hardcore Henry.
edited 9th May '17 2:16:02 AM by ACW
Han.
Regarding Offscreen Villainy, I believe an excellent example is Se7en. Now I haven't seen the whole film, but I know none of the murders are on screen, but we see the aftermath, how it affects people and the killer taking full credit for his atrocities. Thus, Offscreen Villainy is averted and John Doe earns his place as one of film's most twisted killers and our eternal hatred.
I know I already posted it, but here it is again to refresh everyone's memories. Also, I've made some slight changes:
- Swimfan: Madison Bell, prior to events of the movie, causes a car accident that puts her boyfriend Jake Donnelly in a coma when he tried to get away from her possessive influence. After a torrid one night stand with Ben Cronin, she becomes possessive of him to the point that she begins to ruin his life in the pettiest of ways when he rejects her further advances. This involves switching the meds of a sick patient he looks after and nearly killing the man and getting Ben kicked off his swim team for steroid use by getting involved with his friend Josh and using him as a placeholder for Ben. Madison then kills Josh after he figured out what she did and frames Ben for the murder. She then runs down Ben's girlfriend Amy Miller with a car, tries to kill her cousin Christopher when he imitates her boyfriend Jake and then when arrested, shoots and kills the two cops in the car. Madison also attacks Ben's mother and ends her reign of terror by handcuffing Amy to a chair, taunting her and then pushing Amy in the pool so she'll drown.
One of the most dumb cases of Offscreen Villainy is Nihilego, it's implied it brainwashed Lusamine and turned her into the monster we know her as but it's never outright stated and the only thing it did otherwise was pop up for you to fight it. Especially sucks because X and Y had flashback sequences done in game all fine.
According to the in-game information, it actually didn't brainwash Lusamine - it intoxicated her mind and dulled her inhibitions, turning an already deeply troubled person into an amoral monster. Everything Lusamine chose to do afterwards was entirely on her, as was getting so wrapped up in her obsession with Ultra Beasts that she mistreated her kids and got herself intoxicated in the first place.
I recall Ghetsis used to be judged for Offscreen Villainy way back when, but the things he did or set in motion are a case where we see the aftermath, how it affects people, and he takes full credit for the actions. Nowadays it's those actions getting eclipsed in heinousness that makes him a non-qualifier - there's nothing he did that Lysandre and Lusamine after him didn't do, and arguably even worse. (Though his manga incarnation still has a damn good chance of being otherwise)
edited 9th May '17 8:56:35 AM by ANewMan
Pages still needing quotes:
I may browse through a scanlation of Memories of Seldgehammer and see if I can't get a good quote from Friar Bolton. Ditto the Pokemon mangas.
How's this quote for Pretty Cure?
"It's not just enough to destroy the world. I want to destroy all hopes, all dreams, and all miracles in the world. That is when true despair will come."
—Joker, Smile Pretty Cure!
Speaking about quotes, what about this one on the Quotes subpage on the Video Game section.
edited 9th May '17 1:55:41 PM by ReynTime250
Write up for the Judy villain:
- Judy: The unnamed spree killer/rapist, who turns out to be a cop. He rapes one woman and kills another when she gives him too much trouble. After a failed attempt to rape Detective Gunner Sloan's girlfriend, Velvet Harris, he proceeds to rape and kill three more women. Finally, he kills a woman that was willingly having sex with him.
I don't know if I should pothole Serial Killer or Serial Rapist since they were technically all done in under a month.
I'm sorry that it's short, but there is really not much to say.
edited 9th May '17 2:25:03 PM by bobg
jjj
