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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#83126: May 7th 2017 at 2:46:43 PM

Austin, Ravok, take care of yourselves.

Anyway, Aparoid Queen is unanimous, so here's the write-up.

  • The Aparoid Queen is the source of the Aparoid's will and the Big Bad of Star Fox: Assault. Allegedly born without a soul, the Aparoid Queen aimed to bypass evolution. To that end, she spawned countless Aparoid and unleashed them all throughout the Lylat System to infect both inorganic and organic matter through Aparoidedation. Her race threatens inhabitants of countless planets; most notably, Sauria and Corneria suffer the most damage and casualties. Her Assimilation Plot sees other people infected by Aparoid retain some consciousness coupled with the inability to do anything about it, the tragic effects seen most vividly in the fights against General Pepper and Pigma Dengar. Before the attack on her homeworld, she has an armada of Aparoid try and destroy the Orbital Gate, including the deployment of multiple catastrophic missiles, in hopes of ending all of her opposition, including the scientists studying Core Memories. When Star Fox reaches the heart of the Aparoid Homeworld, the Queen uses the information she's absorbed from her spawn's exploits to imitate the voices of the fallen, including Fox's deceased father James McCloud, to break their spirits. Under the belief all existed for them and her race was "truth", the Aparoid Queen threatened existence itself in her quest to turn everything into Aparoid under her control, making her rival Emperor Andross himself in sheer darkness.

Any last objections or critiques before I ship this off to the drafts?

edited 7th May '17 2:55:33 PM by erazor0707

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#83127: May 7th 2017 at 3:04:42 PM

@Austin: Anything you're dealing with in your current life is much more important than this forum. If you must take a break to handle some things, we'll understand.

@Ravok: Try not to overexert yourself. I know you won't listen though. tongue

[tup] Lucifer.

Aki I'm leaning towards [tdown]. Yes, what she did was horrible, but ultimately she seems just like an Alpha Bitch who raped one person, and that's it. If she did a little bit more, she could count. But as it is, she seems more like a Hate Sink than a CM.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#83128: May 7th 2017 at 3:08:58 PM

[tup] to Lucifer and a late [tup] to the Aparoid Queen. [tdown] to Aki though, as vile as she is it sounds like she isn't heinous enough for the series. The fact that her death is so horrific doesn't help matters.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#83129: May 7th 2017 at 3:09:03 PM

I think Aki was cut both due to heinousness issues and because of her ambiguous relationship with her brother.

EDIT: Horrific deaths don't mean anything though. I can think of at least two examples where a CM met a Cruel and Unusual Death that was also a Karmic Death.

EDIT: Or in...well...MUCH of Garth Ennis's work.

edited 7th May '17 3:13:16 PM by ACW

papyru30 from Colorado for summer break Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
#83130: May 7th 2017 at 3:13:20 PM

Emporers what do you mean by effort posts? I'm new to this thread.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#83131: May 7th 2017 at 3:14:53 PM

It means you need to make an effortpost to determine if a character is a Complete Monster. We vote on it based upon the information you give. If they are voted up overall(enough for a 2/1 ratio at least), you then do a write-up. If not, there is no write-up to do because they don't qualify.

If you look at some pages back, you'll see a lot of rather good effortposts.

Shadow?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#83132: May 7th 2017 at 3:24:56 PM

Like some of these. Who are they, what's the work, heinousness standard, etc.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#83133: May 7th 2017 at 3:27:47 PM

And yes to Madison that futuremoviewriter proposed few pages back.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#83134: May 7th 2017 at 3:40:14 PM

We get enough Karma Houdini qualifiers that we get very happy when a keeper meets a horrible end.

...

That's not just me is it?

Anyway... I'm gonna abstain on Aki.

I can't in good conscience support her inclusion...

But I really don't feel comfortable officially opposing it either. She may just be a Hate Sink, but... I'm sorry, I just can't.

Again, I shall echo ACW's comments that a horrible death is not redeeming by itself. Hell, it rarely is, since just about anyone would say anything to get out of it, like when The Mentalist finally has Red John at his mercy.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#83135: May 7th 2017 at 3:44:10 PM

I might have candidate by tonight by the way.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#83136: May 7th 2017 at 3:46:13 PM

Alright, holy heck, let me catch up here. Just got back from GOTG2... anticipating the discussion there. Yes to Lucifer and Aki's already been discussed and cut... she was listed for a while but the fact that the person she's tormenting ends up doing the same to her but even worse (alongside being a multiple murderer on her own) skews the heinous standard way out of proportion. And an easy yes to the Aparoid Queen, there. I remember the game and I think she always struck me as a GDV, but a recap of her deeds and a bit of research on my own makes me very confident that she's a keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Feb 13th 2020 at 11:44:51 AM

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#83137: May 7th 2017 at 3:46:17 PM

[up][up][up] Trust us, it is not just you.

[up][up] Oh? From what?

edited 7th May '17 3:46:56 PM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#83138: May 7th 2017 at 3:47:42 PM

[up] I didn't finish the movie yet. Malagant from First Knight.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#83139: May 7th 2017 at 3:48:29 PM

I can weigh in on Malagant there. Having been meaning to rewatch the flick myself, he's a keeper from what I remember.

ThePest179 Since: Jul, 2015
#83140: May 7th 2017 at 3:58:53 PM

Just a random thought, but I notice that we get a lot of candidates from works that lack a page on this wiki. Is there a reason for that?

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#83141: May 7th 2017 at 4:00:29 PM

Regarding the "horrific death" comment, I know they aren't disqualifying. But when her victim goes on to do the same thing and apparently does even more I'm just not comfortable upvoting.

edited 7th May '17 4:02:23 PM by TommyFresh

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#83142: May 7th 2017 at 4:01:29 PM

[up][up] Yeah, this trope has examples from so many works, many of which are not very well-known.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
HasturHasturHastur from Wheah the fahkin baby wheel is, Jay Since: Nov, 2010
#83143: May 7th 2017 at 4:08:41 PM

[MOD EDIT: That work has not been out long enough. Please wait two weeks before suggesting again.]

edited 7th May '17 4:14:47 PM by Berrenta

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#83144: May 7th 2017 at 4:11:33 PM

Dude, we have a two week waiting period for new media

dragonfire5000 from Where gods fear to tread Since: Jan, 2001
#83145: May 7th 2017 at 4:14:25 PM

[up][up]It's only been a few days since the movie's been released. Please remember this part of the rules:

Not everyone will have had the chance to see it yet. Further, people who do plan to see it will be very annoyed with you for posting spoilers. Allow two weeks past a work's official release date for people to catch up before proposing an example.

"I squirm, I struggle, ergo I am. Faced with death, I am finally, truly alive."
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#83146: May 7th 2017 at 4:16:12 PM

I too might have a candidate from a duology of J-horror films.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#83147: May 7th 2017 at 4:16:37 PM

Ah, I do love the holler system.

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#83148: May 7th 2017 at 4:17:29 PM

[up][up][up][up][up]Well someone here's a newbie. You'll get the hang of it rook.

edited 7th May '17 4:18:45 PM by futuremoviewriter

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#83149: May 7th 2017 at 4:21:16 PM

I've noticed we've been getting a lot of newcomers recently...

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#83150: May 7th 2017 at 4:52:09 PM

Malagant? Hm. I could have sworn we already had him, but I must be misremembering. Not surprising, I suppose. We go through a lot of villains.

I actually looked at that film in school, must have been ten or so years now. We were studying Arthurian legend and adaptations, with stuff like The Green Knight. We also looked at a couple of reviews, which were middling. I think we enjoyed it more because we were dumb kids. I also recall us finding his death satisfying. I look forward to the EP, since my memory of his actions is hazy, and I am interested in reading how he breaks the mold of pseudo-historical baddies.

edited 7th May '17 4:52:26 PM by PolarPhantom


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