TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#82426: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:40:26 PM

Alright, I really mean no offense here, Kylo, but I really think you need to stop with the candidates for a while until you've had a chance to reevaluate the heinous standard and really understand how heinous a character needs to be to pass the baseline (important tip to remember... a few stand-out nasty moments makes a character a villain, not a CM, and a crossing of the Moral Event Horizon makes one irredeemable, but not a CM). Arius and Bennet don't even come close to the standard.

edited 29th Apr '17 2:40:45 PM by Scraggle

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#82427: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:40:52 PM

Would Hurt a Child is not a "Get on CM free card" and neither is being a dictator.

Arius does nothing, absolutely nothing to qualify for the extra mile.

edited 29th Apr '17 2:43:25 PM by Lightysnake

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#82428: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:45:38 PM

[up] Hell, if either of the two counted, it'd probably be Bennett.

Incidentally, a sequel to Commando? How would that even work?

edited 29th Apr '17 2:46:40 PM by ACW

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#82429: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:46:19 PM

What were the thoughts on Bennett?

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#82430: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:46:35 PM

I was gonna say I was thinking of Lord Boros from OPM recently as he's basically a galactic emperor that destroys thousands of planets all because he's bored (It was shown to us in a flashback sequence) and at one point blew up a city for seemingly no reason (He's the most heinous character in One Punch Man by far) and tried to destroy Earth (Those are only a couple of his actions, there's more) but he has an Alas, Poor Villain moment when he dies so I'm unsure about him.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#82431: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:48:26 PM

Oh, Boros is definitely a no. His last moments take him right out.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#82433: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:54:15 PM

[up][up][up][up]Well, since the book Die Hard was based on, Nothing Lasts Forever, was a sequel in its own right to The Detective, you rework things so the actor is younger. In this case, the character that became John McClane was first offered to Frank Sinatra.

edited 29th Apr '17 2:54:28 PM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#82434: Apr 29th 2017 at 2:59:36 PM

[tup] to Hans. I always thought he didn't count, but now I can see that he does.

That's another one for Alan Rickman and that's another from AFI's 50 greatest movie villains list. Great death scene too. One of the best. Kudos to him for actually doing the drop. Not sure I could.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#82435: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:03:04 PM

Fun fact? Rickman was told they'd drop him on '3'

They dropped him immediately. The look of terror and shock on Hans' face as he falls is not acting.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#82436: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:13:13 PM

[tup] Hans, since it sounds like what few Pet the Dog moments he has are either just for pragmatism or outright faked.

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#82437: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:19:43 PM

@Fried Warthog

If you want to see more, don't watch Die Hard 2. Watch 3 and maybe 4.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#82438: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:22:08 PM

[up] I liked Die Hard 2. More than 3 and 4.

Tentative yes to Gruber. Shame Stuart doesn't count; he is even worse in my opinion.

edited 29th Apr '17 3:22:44 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#82439: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:25:36 PM

Hey speaking of Alan Rickman, interesting bit of trivia I learned recently: his portrayal of Snape is now iconic, but did you know he was only their second choice? They originally wanted Tim Roth, who turned it down to play, get this, the bad guy in the Planet of the Apes remake. Smooth move there, dude.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#82440: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:33:32 PM

Definitely not 4. It had the Mac guy and is PG-13. I refuse to watch it out of principle.

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#82441: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:40:29 PM

[tup] Hans. The villain from Jake Peralta's favorite movie

edited 29th Apr '17 4:07:12 PM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#82442: Apr 29th 2017 at 3:41:23 PM

[tup] Hans Gruber.

@FriedWarthog: You can see we all got different opinions on the sequels. I say just watch all three Die Hard sequels and determine for yourself which ones you prefer.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#82443: Apr 29th 2017 at 4:02:40 PM

[up] 4 sequels. Don't forget about A Good Day to Die Hard. Notable, if nothing else, for Biker Babe Irina.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#82444: Apr 29th 2017 at 4:03:39 PM

[up] This is a lie. You are a dirty liar. There are three sequels. And that's it. tongue

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#82445: Apr 29th 2017 at 4:09:50 PM

I know, I discount the 4th as well [lol]

Kookosbanaani Since: May, 2015
#82446: Apr 29th 2017 at 4:16:25 PM

I guess I'm gonna lean towards [tup] with Hans after all. Btw, did that effort post mention how he was willing to blow up Mc Clane along with Karl, one of his men? I only briefly scanned it but I didn't catch a glimpse.

edited 29th Apr '17 4:19:07 PM by Kookosbanaani

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#82448: Apr 29th 2017 at 4:40:22 PM

Personally, I think Die Hard makes for a pretty good trilogy if you ignore 2 and 5 (and honestly, why wouldn't you?). Anyway, [tup] to Hans.

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#82449: Apr 29th 2017 at 5:05:37 PM

The problem I have with Hans Gruber as a CM is that it's unclear to me that he stands out in heinousness specifically compared to his goons (who are also complicit with his plan to blow up the hostages). Is it clear that he's more heinous than Karl, for example?

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#82450: Apr 29th 2017 at 5:10:25 PM

He is certainly more heinous from his goons. My issue is that Stuart outheinousses him (though he is disqualified due to mitigating factors).

Welcome to the world of greatest media!

Total posts: 326,048
Top