During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Here's one I promised Scraggle...
From the terrible TV series...Mortal Kombat: Conquest, we have its Big Bad. Now, the series is set 500 years before the first movie/games through the eyes of the heroic Great Kung Lao, once Earthrealm's champion, and his fight against Outworld.
So, our Big Bad should come as no shocker...
Who Is He And What's He Done?
Shao Kahn. The skull-masked one himself and Emperor of Outworld who awaits his chance to invade Earthrealm. A brutal conqueror who's taken many worlds before, harvesting them for souls and their territory to satisfy his drive to conquer and dominate, Shao Kahn is first mentioned having punished Shang Tsung for his defeat by Kung Lao with an exile to the mines...for most of the series, he's offscreen, but then when we meet him...
Introducing himself in the best way: by ripping the soul out of a prisoner and devouring it, Shao Kahn attempts to seduce our heroes to his side, to no avail. When Kung Lao is injured, Shao Kahn sends his 'daughter', Mileena to finish him off...Mileena, of course fails and an angry Shao Kahn punishes her by mutilating her face into that of a hideous monster, forcing her to hide her features behind a mask.
Now, on earth? we later see a city called Shakaana who worship a benevolent God known as Shakaa...thing is? 'Shakaa' is really Shao Kahn, who is manipulating their worship via his Shadow Priests....under the promise of attaining 'salvation', which will just deliver the souls of everyone in the city to be devoured by Kahn and subject them to his eternal control.
In the finale? Well...Shao Kahn revives the remainder of his Shadow Priests and proceeds to have them slaughter everyone else in the cast: Kung Lao and his friends, Shang Tsung and Quan Chi, Reptile, Kitana, even the side characters. Kahn proceeds to defeat Rayden and has him dragged before his throne, which leads to an absolutely awesome piece of dialogue as Shao Kahn removes personal effects of his victims and throws them at Rayden's feet. "A traitor...dead. Two sorcerers....dead. A queen....dead! A daughter...dead! A bodyguard....dead. A thief....dead. A champion...DEAD!" Before he puts his arms out and declares "You. Will. Bow. To. Me." As Rayden is thrown to the ground.
The final scene of the show? Rayden watching helplessly as Shao Kahn leads his forces to invade Earthrealm, killing and subjugating everyone on earth, with the last shot being that of a fallen emblem of Mortal Kombat.
Aaaaaaaand that's our show, folks! Yep, The Bad Guy Wins alright. Season 2 would've had the Elder Gods reset time to prevent Kahn from having cheated, but, uhh...as they didn't, Shao Kahn wins!
Mitigating Factors?
Ye gods no.
Conclusion?
"A monster....keep."
I've seen a movie based on a show. Horrible but keep Khan. Also, besides Karma Houdini C Ms, I also hate Villain Protagonist C Ms. And I generally hate Villain Protagonist / Hero Antagonist stories.
edited 20th Apr '17 11:56:28 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Show!Shao.
As for that quote (speaking of, still need feedback on this
)...I know the current quote at Mortal Kombat may be more demonstrative of a CM, but I LOVE that quote of Shao. Once he gets added to the MK page and the main TV page, would anyone object to using Shao's quote instead (and moving Shinnok's to the main quotes page?
Late, but easy
to Kobayashi. Even ignoring the badly done redemption is still redemption thing, he fails the heinous standard by a long shot. Having a grand total of one attempted bodycount (maybe two, but I don't recall him ever trying to kill Koichi. Grabbing the knife faked Kochi into that, but he just stabbed himself). And even that's streching it since he treid to goad Koichi into turning off the noises and he would release the locks showing that he wasn't trying to get her to actually kill herself (not like it's redeeming mind you). The Both cause death for an animal for petty reasons isn't even accurate considering how it was a robotic cat, not a real cat, and I have no idea where the and then kill her came from in regards to Koichi's sister. All he was make his sister spill tea on him, and imply that he'd guilt her into sex. Nothing about trying to kill her
edited 20th Apr '17 12:09:34 PM by Awesomekid42
![]()
Oh, I know that. That was for the main quotes page. I'm just saying that with Bionicle getting its own page, Other Media will need a new quote.
edited 20th Apr '17 12:09:31 PM by ACW
I'll admit that I'm not much of a Mortal Kombat fan and my only experience from the show comes from the reviews that Phelous did, but I recall a moment during Shao Khan's big speech after he killed everybody where he seemed to show remorse when recounting how he killed Kitana. When he gets to her fan, he slowly closes it and his boastfulness subsides for a bit. He's not yelling or smug when he gets to the "a daughter... dead" part and he delivers that line more curt and solemn than the others.
Again, I'm abstaining since I've haven't watched the show and I don't know if it's one of those things that isn't really redeeming in the grand scheme of things, but I thought I should bring it up.
I haven't seen the series but from this video I don't see remorse at 1:05
to Shao Kahn.
Okay here is my first attempt at a write up for Billy Capra, and Stark's rewrite:
- Billy Capra from Season 1’s “Lonelyhearts” is an especially dangerous Ziegevolk, responsible for committing numerous rapes across the country. Ziegevolk naturally produce powerful pheromones that make themselves come across as more attractive and charming, especially towards the opposite sex. However through consuming a special type of toad Billy vastly enhances his powers, granting himself a form mind control. His MO is to find vulnerable women in the nearby bar, then use his pheromones to force them to come to his bed and breakfast. Once there he imprisons them in cages in his basement, pumping the room with a powerful sedative gas to keep them docile, then rapes them over and over again until he gets bored with them. Having already kidnaped three women in Portland for a period of several months, Billy tries to capture Faith Dunhill but she manages to escape. Tracking Faith down (despite his race’s long standing nature of nonviolence) Billy suffocates her to keep his crimes secret. A few nights later he tries again with another woman, Lisa. Realising the police are onto him Billy attempts to abandon Portland, forcing Lisa to go with him.
- Oleg Stark, from season 1's "Game Ogre", is an especially violent, hot-tempered Siegbarste, or ogre. A hitman for hire, known for mangling his victims, Stark was arrested for a series of brutal murders, and escapes jail years later to enact revenge, beating his guards into a coma before going on a Roaring Rampage of Revenge. Stark hunts down and kills the prosecuting lawyer, cutting out her tongue; cuts off the hand of the jury foreman before beating the man to death; and then goes after the judge, whose corpse the police find with Stark having stuffed his gavel down his throat. Stark tries to draw out Hank Griffin, as he was the detective who arrested him, by setting off an explosion in a public area near his apartment. When this fails, Stark murders an old man for his car and hospitalizes Nick in an attempt to get his location. He also attacks Juliette simply for interrupting them. Brutal and cruel, even by the standards of the occasionally monstrous Wesen, Stark was an utter beast.
edited 20th Apr '17 2:41:56 PM by MGD107
Before I propose another film example, I found a potential creepypasta candidate. Don't worry, it's not what many of you would consider "tasteless" (in my belief), and it is generally considered to be one of the best creepypastas out there (it's made it on a lot of best creepypasta lists). At the very least, Bad Creepypasta, who do not care about popularity and have ripped on many creepypastas that are well known like Dating Game, Jeff The Killer, and Squidward's Suicide, have recommended it in the past, so in their opinion, it's a good creepypasta.
What's the work?
The Russian Sleep Experiment.
who's the candidate?
The commander.
What does he do?
The commander is in charge of an experiment to try and keep five people awake for 30 days and study the results. He lies that they will be freed afterwards. He uses a gas stimulant to keep them awake. As the days pass, the subjects become insane. One of the subjects dies, while the other four star eating themselves. Eventually, soldiers are sent in to retrieve the subjects and perform surgery on them to try and keep them alive. The subjects become very violent, and kill a number of the soldiers before being restrained. The subjects are given surgery, but one of them ends up dying. Despite all of this, the Commander insists that they continue the experiment, much to his group's protest. One of the subjects' hearts stops beating. With only two subjects left, the Commander decides to seal three researchers in the chamber where the subjects are being kept, presumably to see how the subjects react to their presence. Having gotten fed up with the Commander's sick experiment, one of the researchers takes out a gun and shoots the commander dead, before turning the gun on the two remaining subjects to end their suffering.
Redeeming features?
None. The Commander does order surgery to be given to the four remaining subjects after the first one dies, but that's just so that he can continue the experiment.
Heinousness?
He carries out an experiment, which seems normal enough at first, but he was already planning to kill the five subjects after it was over anyway. Even after seeing the subjects go insane and start to die off, he insists the continuation of the experiment. He does not care about his staff, as he still continues after a number of soldiers have been killed, and his final act is to try and force three researchers into the chamber where the subjects are, even though he knows how violent they have become.
Any mitigating factors?
The story is written in third person, and no lines of dialogue are given to the Commander. The story does depict him giving all of his orders, however, and it does establish him as a man who will cross any lines For Science!. The story states that he sees potential in the experiment, and when the subjects have killed a number of soldiers, and there are only three subjects left, that potential is all he is thinking about. Despite having no lines of dialogue, his character is clearly established.
Does it have a plot?
Enough of one that it's considered more than grimdark trash, at least by all of the creepypasta critics I have encountered. It does not have a Karma Houdini. There is no rape or child murder.
I am pretty much done with creepypasta proposals. I just happened to stumble upon this one by accident.
jjjKamoshida!
- Persona 5: Coach Suguru Kamoshida is a former Olympian turned head PE teacher at Shujin High in Tokyo, and secretly a dangerous sexual predator. Protected by the school administration due to his past fame, Kamoshida sees Shujin as his own absolute fiefdom, and gets his jollies extorting sexual favors from the girls he teaches, often forcing one of his male students, Yuuki Mishima, to procure them for him. His male students fare little better, as when they do poorly in his classes he calls them to his office for "private tutoring sessions" that are really just excuses to beat the tar out of them; as a result both boys and girls live in terror of him. Kamoshida also indulges in pettier Jerkassery such as provoking the star of the track team into punching him as an excuse to get the team shut down, and leaking the Protagonist's criminal record to the entire school. When his "favorite" victim, Ann Takamki, refuses to sleep with him, Kamoshida crosses the Moral Event Horizon and rapes her best friend as revenge; the girl in question feels so humiliated she attempts suicide. When confronted by the Protagonist, Kamoshida freely admits his crimes, but confident the system will protect him, types up a false assault report to have him expelled. Even after the Phantom Thieves steal his heart, he states his intention to commit suicide himself to escape justice, only submitting to arrest after a "Reason You Suck" Speech from Ann.
edited 20th Apr '17 3:28:32 PM by HamburgerTime

Since there will now be 3 Persona examples (don't worry, I'm not asking about a new subpage
), should we give Persona its own sub-group at Shin Megami Tensei, between the main series and the other spinoffs?