During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Well, I'll have a new candidate tonight, as we all wish Emperors well...hopefully this gives you something entertaining to read in the meantime, mate:
What's The Work? Gunsmith Cats is a work by Kenichi Sonoda, set in Chicago in the 90s, concerning the adventures of a young, gun-wielding bounty hunter named Irene "Rally" Vincent and her partner and explosion expert Minnie-May Hopkins. Namely the OVA of the manga...the series rarely has a centralized plot, focusing instead on forms of arcs. The OVA is an anime-original story....
Rally, in the opening, catches a wanted criminal who's been participating in a gun-smuggling operation named Isaiah Washington. Rally, blackmailed into it by the ATF, apprehends Washington and helps shut down the ring, to the appreciation of Eddie Haints, a Chicago assembleyman who's running for mayor...then things get worse in episodes 2-3...
Who's Our candidate?
Natasha Radinov, AKA "Bloody Pierce" is a vicious Ukrainian former Spetsnaz agent who's since turned to mercenary and assassin work. Radinov is known for her efficiency, deadliness and cruelty, and also for her unusual payment habits. Radinov accepts payment only in heroin, which she then sells in Russia for higher prices...
What's She Do?
Radinov is introduces murdering a target and security guard with a spring-loaded knife she fires out. Initially relaxed and laid back, Radinov is then informed she has another hit waiting for her, upon which point she flashes a rather vicious Slasher Smile...
Now, it turns out the local ATF head is dirty and involved in the gun smuggling operation, though he answers to someone above him. Now that Washington is in custody, his employers are worried he might talk, so Radinov is given instructions to deal with this issue. Radinov chooses to do this in a very interesting fashion. She proceeds to stroll into the safehouse Washington is being held in and proceeds to massacre every single police officer in the building without mercy before she kicks down the door where Washington is being held and kills him with her beloved knife.
Shortly after, Radinov runs afoul of Rally, and kidnaps May. In a high speed car chase, Rally gets a shot off that takes off Radinov's left earlobe, prompting her to try to murder May, who sets off a small explosion in the car. May manages to get away, and Radinov's car crashes. An enraged Radinov decides she wants Rally and May dead as a matter of pride now. The ATF director goes to see her and Radinov, upon confirming with her top employer he's expendable, first shoots him nonfatally to see him beg before she puts another round in his head....she then rigs her safehouse to explode for when the police arrive and flees to a rooftop, killing several innocent workers who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Her employer is revealed to be none other than Eddie Haints who wants to use the publicity to become mayor and use the gun ban to profit off his arms smuggling business...Eddie gives Rally a public award so Radinov can try to kill her...things don't go as planned and Radinov simply...tries to shoot everyone on the stage, Haints included, killing several of his bodyguards before she flees. Rally takes off after her, and we see Radinov kills several civilians who just got in her way. Confronting Rally, Radinov attempts to slowly torture her to death, before May uses a pre-planted explosion to drive her off. An injured Rally is slowly stalked by Radinov, who avoids May's other traps...only to fall to the last one as she prepares to execute Rally and May after prolonging the 'hunt'.
Radinov still survives, albeit injured, and Rally and friends engineer a public confession from Haints, who's arrested...only for Radinov to get a second wind and surge out of the ambulance she's been loaded in charging Rally with an axe. Rally's ATF buddy manages to distract her long enough for Rally to pull her own gun and empty the entire clip into Radinov's chest, killing her at last.
Mitigating Qualities?
Absolutely none. Radinov doesn't seem to care for anything besides making money (and being paid in drugs) and murdering people brutally. She has no real loyalty to employers or partners, and has no issue trying to kill Haints when she thinks she can get a better shot at Rally (calling it a "matter of pride" for Rally injuring her).
Other than that...nah, nothing. Radinov has a sizable bodycount, with a dozen cops killed in her attack on the safehouse alone, in addition to her sheer levels of sadism. She's the only real heinous villain in the OVA, so no real competition (nobody counts in the manga as the worst of the worst there have redeeming qualities).
But really, Radinov is like a Ukrainian female Terminator. And honestly, given the actual drug epidemics in Russia when this was made, her price gouging of heroin to profit even more kinda adds an extra little bit of nastiness to her.
Conclusion?
Keeper.
Right originally I was against using a effortpost on this guy because he got redeemed and that's still true technically. His redemption is very different than most and not just because it's an Ass Pull.
So I present my EP of the day Tamashi Kobayashi from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable
Who is he?
Tamashi Kobayashi is a Monster of the Week villain to give Koichi his stand Echoes. He has the stand The Lock who makes people feel guilty to an action. As you can imagine this allows him to many disgusting acts. He pretty much does similar acts to Angelo at the very start so this will be fun.
What has he done
Tamashi at first places a dead robotic cat to get someone to feel guilty so he could get money from them being a mighty scam-artist. He ends up getting Koichi Hirose, our lovable hero for this Arc. He attempts to make Koichi feel sorry for killing a cat by running it over with a bike which does work until he founds out it's robotic. After that Josuke and Okuyasu decides to brutally beat him down by curbstomping him (Literally and in the other way). It's after this part that makes him as vile as Angelo IMO. He later appears in Koichi's home as he is a stalker. From there Koichi redirects them away from this dude while trying to purposely piss Koichi off. At one point Tamashi tries to murder Koichi proving he's not in for Greed anymore, rather he has no excuse for himself. He then attempts to rape Koichi's sister and then kill her and cause his Mom suicide by pulling a Batman Gambit to make it look like Koichi stabbed him in the chest when it was actually himself doing it on purpose. Koichi unlocks Act 1's power to stop him from doing that and he gives up because he knows he can't win.
Redeeming qualities and Freudian Excuse?
This is what I don't like about putting him up to suggestion and the reason why I didn't want to bother with him. His Freudian Excuse is basically ''It's just a prank bro" which doesn't cut it at all. However he does get redeemed but it's a bit weird and not typical at all. Koichi starts to be a Troll onto him mocking his Excuse and making him look like an idiot. He then decides one criteria for being forgiven and that's if he works for Koichi (Keep in mind that Koichi always redeems someone unless you're Yoshikage Kira but this time he did it differently than the others and he also stated that he might not redeem him if he doesn't agree and instead beat the guy up for what he did), he agrees to be redeemed and he does end up working for Koichi only the next time we see him he gets knocked out by another Stand User and his next appearence is him being just as much as an asshole to Josuke this time to make him feel guilty again.
Heinous standard
Jo Jo has a high heinous count and he comes a couple episodes after Angelo. However I feel like the only thing that might make Angelo worse is the fact that he has a couple of flashback sequences that show him doing bad things before getting a stand (Which is probably what makes it or breaks it). Other than that they have similar crimes. Both cause death for an animal for petty reasons, both try to kill a family member of the hero, both try to kill the hero for revenge and both try to rape the characters family member. So he settles it. It's also notable that none of the villains care for him at all and Koichi was much angrier with him than he was with everyone else he fought except for Kira (I'm pretty sure we said that Kira counts in heinous issues but it was the redeeming qualities that stopped him)
Verdict
I'm honestly not sure about this guy. His forgiveness is different than most others in Jo Jo and Koichi didn't even want to forgive him and even when he's redeemed he's just as much as an asshole as before (Considering that even Rohan was nicer after becoming a good guy that says a lot). He's the Hate Sink for Part 4 at least.
I'm putting it up to you guys on whether the forgiving traits is enough because I'm honestly not sure.
edited 20th Apr '17 7:35:38 AM by ReynTime250

Yes to Mewtwo.
I am nervous. In my college somebody in the basement wrote in graffiti they are going to shoot entire hall that I live in. Fortunately, we got an email from administration that they arrested the two students.
edited 19th Apr '17 8:08:29 PM by emperors
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