During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Yes to God and Lamia. Will they go under Devilman or under Anime & Manga?
Yes to Malik as well.
edited 15th Apr '17 4:36:53 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Ok, given two weeks have elapsed...
What's The Work?
The latest Gundam series, Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans: three hundred years after the devastating Calamity War, Mars had been colonized by Earth but suffers crippling poverty and the colonists are beginning to push for independence.
The true power on earth is held by the military unit Gjallarhorn, ruled by its seven elite families. Mars's city of Chryse is a hotbed for the independence movement, spearheaded by the young, idealistic Kudelia Aina Bernstein. Earth is using Private Military Contractors to enforce its rule over earth...which largely consist of child soldiers under the 'Human Debris' law, where people can be taken and sold as chattel. One group of child soldiers, led by the dynamic young Orga Itsuki, opts to break away from their abusive employers and forge a path of independence under the name Tekkadan...with their greatest weapons being the relics of the Calamity War: the Gundams.
Let's get into our candidate.
Who Is He?
Nobliss Gordon, an older businessman and a beloved, dedicated philanthropist and businessman who owns GN Trading, a massive interplanetary corporation, as well as an arms dealer. People literally live and die to gain the sponsorship of Nobliss, whose assistance can make or break their movements. Nobliss has since become a close ally of Kudelia, supporting the Martian independence movement and revolution...but...
What's He Done?
Nobliss does not give a fuck about independence, idealism, freedom or anything but lining his pockets. Far from being a kind philanthropist, Nobliss is a corrupt, manipulative monster who has one goal: make a fuckton of money. And what gets the money flowing into an arms dealer's pocket? A really, really nasty war of course.
You can see where this is going. Nobliss manipulates the rumors that the Dort colonies are readying for a revolution, making it a hotbed of military activity, also manipulating the revolutionaries into further conflict. Nobliss talks a big game on how 'sacrifices are necessary for the greater good', but his goals are very, very clearly different. As things get nastier on Mars and for Tekkadan, Nobliss uses his influence to help Kudelia become a stronger figure in the revolution to the point she is the living symbol of Martian independence. Using his agent, Fumitan, who is Kudelia's assistant...Nobliss orders Fumitan to lead Kudelia to her demise, but Fumitan instead dies saving Kudelia. Nobliss's end here? To use Kudelia's death as the spark on the powder keg to initiate a revolution against Gjallarhorn: the bloodiest, most brutal, violent revolution that is possible so he can profit off the chaos.
Now, things don't go this way, but there's a greater arms buildup as a sort of cold war occurs at the end of part one...which suits Nobliss fine as increased militarism means more business for him.
Part two...Nobliss doesn't do much here, but he continues manipulating the various factions. Tekkadan has thrown in with a rebellious officer of the corrupt Gjallarhorn who seeks to overthrow the system (though he's far from a hero, by any means)...Nobliss does gt up to a bit of nastiness again, here. He threatens Kudelia with blackmail to cut her and the Martian independence movement off of his funding if she doesn't abandon Tekkadan, and later manipulates the civilian media to essentially facilitate the slaughter of Tekkadan, who are unfairly maligned child soldiers. This goes just fine for him because, you know, profit. Now, the events of the galaxy get away from everyone at the end...the rebellion ends in failure and Orga is assassinated in a move that leaves Nobliss surprised, but pleased since...hey, let's hasten that bloody fight and get more cash, right?
Tekkadan is annihilated with few survivors, and Nobliss again escapes justice, being seen as a beloved philanthropist, supporter of revolutionaries and is still super wealthy...then one of Tekkadan's surviving members corners him when he's on the toilet, asking if he remembers Orga Itsuki....and then guns him down, finishing the corrupt SOB off for good. The brutal leader of Gjallarhorn gets away scot free of his crimes, but reforms Gjallarhorn into a more democratic institution while Mars achieves independence, as Kudelia and another young woman who was a member of Tekkadan raise Atra's child with one of Tekkadan's soldiers together, vowing never to forget them, even if they're villains in the eyes of history....
Mitigating Qualities?
This part's easy. No. Nobliss has nothing. Absolutely nothing. The man is greed wearing a suit and smoking a cigar. He cares for nothing but making a buck and profiting off the miseries of others. He only lets up trying to kill Kudelia when a nicer gangster convinces Nobliss she's more useful alive-for the moment.
And what's he do with all that money? Lives the high life and nothing else. The man loves wearing expensive clothes, relaxing in saunas, smoking overpriced cigars and eating the best food. Alone of literally every other antagonist in series, Nobliss has zero redeeming qualities.
Heinous Standard?
Okee-dokee, here's the kicker. IBO? Is fucking DARK. Gjallarhorn is an oppressive dictatorship, the world sucks, with child soldiers and slavery regularly used. One of the most noble characters in series is a gangster who seemingly maintains a harem of beautiful women in his operation...only for it to turn out they're all women he rescued from slavery and he's fiercely devoted to protecting them. But other than that...war crimes are very common, and so is corruption. In Gjallarhorn's seven families alone, Rustal Elion, the Big Bad, commits multiple war crimess to stay in power. His opponent, McGillis Fareed engineers a series of horribly personal betrayals, sending the woman who loves him to die and betraying his best friend and (seemingly) personally murdering him...all to destroy the corrupt Gjallarhorn after his adoptive father Iznario Fareed took him in only to regularly rape and abuse him. Iok Kujan, an idiot manchild, commits war crimes by firing on surrendering enemies just to get more glory for himself.
So, yeah, this's dark. Here's the thing about Nobliss: Nobliss doesn't have near the authority or resources others do. He has to make due with manipulation and goodwill as he has no real military command. While others commit more cruelly personal deeds out of a variety of reasons...Nobliss isn't part of the system. He's a parasite feeding on it, cynically exploiting all the hopes and dreams of those who want to make the world better or just live their lives on their own. He's willing to create the single most devastating, horrible war since the Calamity War not for high ended ideals, but just to make a quick payday, and to do this again and again. By the end, he's manipulating public opinion to sanction the mass slaughter of innocent kids and child soldiers all for business' sake.
But really, it's Seaosn oen that gets me most. The dead revolutionaries, engineering the worsening of tensions, and trying to kill Kudelia all to ignite the spark of revolution and kick off a godawful war that could easily surpass anything else in series just for profit is one of the most horrible things in the series.
Conclusion?
Nobliss is one of the toughest I've proposed in a while. He's awful, with no redeeming features and so absurdly personal for a villain the heroes don't even know exists for most of the series. In the end, though, like I said: Nobliss stands apart in a unique niche. He's not part of the system, but a parasite feeding off it. He's a loathsome manipulator making bad situations far worse with a horrible motivation behind it. While events grow bigger than the men in this series and Nobliss is just as helpless against the passage of history by the end, even ironically dying for the one thing he wasn't actually involved in...
I think season one passes him, and what he does to Tekkadan pushes him well over the edge. The attempt to engineer the Mars war is far too horrible, with far fewer resources than Gjallarhorn's top people have access to. I believe Nobliss Gordon well qualifies.
So I've recently read through both Spider-Man: Noir series' and wanted to touch upon both Doc Ock and Crime Master's CM entries since they don't do quite enough to sell their villainy.
- Spider Man Noir: Eyes Without A Face:
- Otto Octavius, a.k.a. Dr. Octopus, stands in stark contrast to his occasionally noble 616 counterpart. Born a cripple in South Africa, Otto grew up jealous of the healthy, able-bodied Africans that he grew up around, which developed into a violent hatred for the black race in general. Wishing to gain the approval of Heinrich Himmler and the Nazi party, Otto has innocent black people kidnapped off the streets and performs horrifying, inhumane experiments on them. These experiments result in his victims, such as Peter's friend Robbie Robertson, being reduced to drooling, mindless vegetables that are meant to be used for slave labor. And Otto isn't above casual murder, as shown by him brutally stabbing his ally Crime Master to death when he tried to have Otto's victims burnt to cover their tracks, viewing his actions as wasting his research.
- In the power vacuum left behind in the wake of Norman Osborn's death, the enigmatic Crime Master handily takes his place as New York's most fearsome criminal. Far crueler and more brutal than Norman was, Crime Master is introduced by having his hulking lackey Sandman kill a mobster who insulted him by crushing his head like a grape. A violent psychopath of the highest order, Crime Master is quick to make an example of people who cross him, such as cutting out the tongue of a stool pigeon who snitched on him and dumping his body on the streets, filling a movie theater with the corpses of his rivals, and torturing his girlfriend Felicia Hardy with a shard of glass for affiliating with Spider-Man. Crime Master also assists Otto Octavius in his heinous experiments by supplying him with innocent black victims he kidnaps off the streets, and when the feds start to close in on them, he heartlessly tries to have them all burnt alive and refers to them as "livestock".
edited 15th Apr '17 11:55:34 PM by FriedWarthog
Next post... Got another Ben Templesmith candidate, all. From the comic Choker...
What's the setting?
We follow an ex-detective named Johnny Jackson, an incredibly cynical, incredibly bitter man with an alien hand who runs a private detective agency alongside his neurotic, nerdy co-worker Seaton Price in the wretched hive of Shotgun City. Jackson was laid off due to the fact he was incompatible with Man Plus, a super-drug all of Shotgun City's police officers are pumped with. Jackson's suddenly called up one day by Milton Ellis, the haggard, wheelchair-bound chief of Shotgun City's police deparment. Ellis has a proposal for Jackson... if he can nail a criminal he'd previously put behind bars, he's got the job back. Our criminal here? Hunt Cassidy, drug baron, "scumfuck," and the bespectacled arch-enemy of Jackson.
Who is Cassidy? What has he done?
Cassidy is a drug baron who was put away by Jackson years ago. Cassidy was particularly depraved... alongside peddling horrific, mutative drugs, Cassidy used children as guinea pigs to test the effects of his drugs. Finally put behind bars by Jackson, Cassidy is brutalized in jail to the point of near-death, leaving him with a hunger for revenge against Jackson. He finds a chance for revenge sooner than he'd anticipated; a mole in the police department (later revealed to be a cop named Royce Davies) frees Cassidy and provides him enough Man Plus to make a new batch of even more horrific drugs. Cassidy begins his new spree by kidnapping a girl named Tabitha to use her as a new tortured lab rat for his drugs with heavy implications her attempts at escape result in her being tortured. Kept locked in a cage in Cassidy's basement, Tabitha is reduced to an emaciated, insane, naked wreck of herself as a result of Cassidy's constant tests on her.
Cassidy starts selling the Man Plus-enhanced narcotics, addicting dozens of people. The drugs happen to alter the composure of people's DNA, too... leading to several goth kids being turned into psychopathic vampires which massacre an entire nightclub filled with innocent people as Cassidy looks on with a smile on his face, and more people being turned into cannibalistic mutants who gruesomely devour a busload of old women. Cassidy finally confronts Jackson himself outside a cafe after he's spiked the coffee with some more poisons, leading to one poor sap who drinks the coffee to vomit and then literally explode as Cassidy watches. When Jackson runs out of the cafe to confront Cassidy, he's already gone. As the vampire goths continue to commit more bloody massacres in Cassidy's name, Tabitha finally manages to crawl out of her cage, downing a good amount of Cassidy's drugs and escaping to kill a vampire crony of Cassidy's who initially sold her out to Cassidy.
Cassidy's hideout is located by the police department and Royce is initially sent in with a squad of soldiers. Doesn't do them much good... Cassidy finds the squad first and when backup arrives, Royce has been tied up and locked up (spared only because he's the one providing Man Plus to Cassidy) and the entire squad slaughtered by Cassidy's drugged-up goons. Said vampire goons also descend upon Jackson's old detective agency in an attempt to find him there. Cassidy rings up Royce in anger when he learns Tabitha's escape and later invades a police station alongside Royce to get some more resources, sending out another drugged-up mutant to rip Jackson and his allies to shreds. That fails and Cassidy doesn't react well... bitchslapping Royce once he speaks out against Cassidy and telling him that if he can't kill Jackson, he'll kill Royce instead. Royce, Baron (the leader of the vampire goths Cassidy has drugged up) and Cassidy all group together and ambush Jackson and his allies just as they're about to invade the corrupt police department itself.
Before Royce can kill Jackson, though? Cassidy decides he wants Jackson all to himself and promptly pumps himself full of his own mutative drugs, and proceeds to kill Royce by shooting him through the head. It's at that time a bunch of Man Plus-enhanced cops converge on Cassidy right outside the police headquarters at the same time Jackson moves into the HQ to expose the corrupt police department, even as Ellis pleads him not to. Cassidy brutally slaughters every cop sent to subdue him and shoots Ellis dead himself, casually remarking Ellis' whining was "annoying" before he moves to beat Jackson to death himself. Our final battle commences and the drugged-up Cassidy is ultimately left a loser as Jackson overpowers him and leaves him to the mercy of his own junkies. With Cassidy unable to provide more drugs to the doped-up psychopaths, Cassidy is torn apart by the druggies as Jackson walks away. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.
Any mitigating factors?
It's true Cassidy did go through some real horrors during his time in prison (including good old Prison Rape) but this obviously fails as an excuse for a few reasons. Cassidy was a monstrous SOB long before he was initially put behind bars. Getting brutalized in prison only made him worse... and even when he breaks out, Cassidy still goes out of his way to drug and murder people completely unrelated to his vendetta against Jackson. The story never intends to make us feel sorry for what Cassidy's been through... more so the opposite, as it was entirely deserved and doesn't mitigate Cassidy's evil one bit. Other than that? Nothing worth talking about.
Conclusion?
Another easy Ben Templesmith keep.
Thoughts?
edited 16th Apr '17 12:26:00 AM by Scraggle
A handy 'Yes' to Cassidy.
Alrighty, I'll get up my BIONICLE write-ups soon, but first, the others.
- Happy! by Grant Morrison: Mr. Blue is a mob boss looking to get his hands on the previous Don's load of cash, and will do anything to complete this mission. Employing torturers and murderers as well as cops he forces into service, notably threatening to have one's mother raped if she resists his orders, Mr. Blue orders a hit out on Nick Sax, one of his top enforcers, when Sax accidentally kills the only man who knows the password to the previous Don's safe. While sending his Torture Technician Mr. Smoothie after Saz to torture the password out of him, Mr. Blue simultaneously has half a dozen children kidnapped and plans to run a live stream of them being raped then likely killed to turn a profit on child pornography sites, and in the end tries to force Sax to watch the children's fate as revenge for making Blue exhaust so many resources looking for him.
- Fang by K. I. Zachopolous: In this unofficial continuation of the classic Bram Stoker tale, Dracula continues his streak of sadism and evil. Hopping aboard a boat bound for America following his near defeat at Van Helsing's hands, Dracula massacres the entire crew of said boat before arriving at his destination, New York City. Once in New York, Dracula restrengthens himself by draining the blood of numerous homeless people and prostitutes, then amasses his "creatures of the night" to slaughter dozens of people and dump their bodies in a nearby river before making yet another attempt to kill Van Helsing and his friends. Though implied by Van Helsing to actually be a lonely beast, Dracula shows time and again that he is in truth just a sadistic creep obsessed with becoming a god and slaughtering those beneath him as the sheep he believes them to be.
- Sherlock Holmes Soleil comics:
- Sberlock Holmes and Vampires of London: Selymes is the vampiric monarch who serves as the first supernatural threat Holmes encounters, but certainly not the last. Selymes runs a huge network of vampires that he uses to amass dozens of victims at a time for himself, who he gleefully drains of every ounce of their blood, killing them in the process. When Selymes himself turns a man named Owen Chances into a vampire, he forces the man into his service by threatening his innocent brother, and, when Owen slowly becomes savage due to Selymes' tainted blood, Selymes covers up his taint by torturing and killing Owen's brother in front of him, then leaving the corpse at Owen's side for the years he is locked away, blaming Owen's vicious bloodlust on the stress of said experience. After massacring dozens of people who try to rise up against his evil, Selymes gleefully tries to murder Owen while promising to butcher Sherlock Holmes' best friends before turning him into a vampire so as to torture him for all eternity.
- Sherlock Holmes: Society: Ryan Shelvey is a slimy psychiatrist whose first atrocities began when he hypnotized his own patients into becoming psychotic killers, notably turning one into a Jack the Ripoff who kills three women. When approached by the aforementioned Taylor to assist in his and the Council's plans, Shelvey happily uses his own patients as test subjects for the zombification virus, resulting in dozens of innocents being fatally experimented on. Fully aware that Taylor plans to use his own research to aide in wiping out most of London, Shelvey later sends 3 more of his hypnotized patients after Sherlock Holmes to stop his investigation, with orders to force him to watch his friends and landlady are killed in front of him before ending his life. Even when faced with life in prison, Shelvey refuses ro reveal the details of Taylor's plans, knowing that, unimpeded, Taylor would arrange the annihilation of 7 major cities across the planet, starting with London.
- Jack the Ripper published by Soleil: Jean Martin Charcot is the ultimate Man Behind the Man to Jack the Ripper himself, alongside all other crimes in the story. As a famous neuroscientist and master of hypnotisim, Charcot's evil started when a group of his students accidentally hypnotized a woman into killing her own sister. Taking advantage of the hypnotic trance they used, Charcot and his students begin hypnotizing their various patients into bringing out their psychopathic killer sides, leading to some becoming Serial Killers while others massacre their entire families, children included, before killing themselves. When Inspector Abberline begins investigating him, Charcot hypnotizes the man into killing his own girlfriend before going on to become a Serial Killer, and Charcot shows absolutely no concern over one of his former students becoming Jack the Ripper while the others die one by one. Though using For Science! as an excuse for his truly wicked actions, Charcot was ultimately an attention seeking lunatic willing to kill all in his way in his path to fame.
- Reality Show by Francis Porcel and J. D. Morvan: "The Red Triangle" is a vicious Robotic Psychopath and Serial Killer. Originally a simple worker drone, the Red Triangle gained sentience after an experiment using emotion sharing parasites granted him a taste of human emotions, and, becoming obsessed with creating his own "perfect" human personality, the Red Triangle began using these parasites to feed off the emotions of two people at a time for a few days, after which he kills them and moves on to other "hosts". Along the way, the Red Triangle gleefully butchers dozens police officers and other random people who stand in his way, and takes extra sadistic glee in tormenting humans with his killings. When hunting for a pure good personality, the Red Triangle feeds off a preacher and a rookie police officer's integrity and kindness before murdering one in front of the other simply to feed off the "survivors' guilt" the other feels, and spends his final moments proclaiming that he will never again feed off of another person as morally good as them, noting that it might compromise his sadistic, immoral personality, which he is perfectly happy with. Despite claiming that all his victims were "despicable", this ranges from delusional to outright lies considering one of his victims was a child, which makes his seeming outrage at a child molester ring hollow, especially when said outrage was over the man being a terrible host for his desired emotions rather than actual sadness for what the man did to children. The Red Triangle's motives never extend beyond becoming as perfectly human-like as possible in his mind, regardless how many innocents he happily murdered along the way.
- Legion: "The Devil with Yellow Eyes" , Amahl Farouk AKA the Shadow King, is the psychopathic sadist responsible for all of David Haller's perceived illnesses and mental issues. In life a powerful mutant telepath, the Devil was banished to the Astral Plane during a duel with a fellow telepath, and, seeking revenge for this defeat, proceeded to latch onto the mind of his rival's newborn son. As this child, David Haller, grew up, the Devil constantly haunted and tormented him, gaslighting him into believing that any time his latent mutant powers manifested, it was actually himself going insane, and the Devil used this factor to ensure that David spent the majority of his life alone and miserable. Though in the present David gains mutant allies who attempt to help him, the Devil prevents any form of assistance so as to manipulate David into allowing him to take control of David's body to save his kidnapped sister, and, once in control, the Devil uses David's powers to massacre an entire building of government agents in particularly gruesome ways before trying to lock David and his friends away in their own minds to be tormented for the rest of their days. The Devil with Yellow Eyes' final goal is to assume full control of David's body, then use it to become a god and go on a rampage across the planet, starting by murdering his former rival, and, even when seemingly beaten, the Devil jumps into the mind of Oliver Anthony Bird to use as his latest host and escape. A complete and utter sociopath who refuses to see the joy that comes from anything but power and control, the Devil with Yellow Eyes took many forms throughout the story, but his original, that of a bloated, disgusting monster, is handily the best representation of his true personality.
edited 16th Apr '17 1:02:27 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!FW: I've added the original Noir entries, with potholes, to the Drafts page, so please make the changes you want and let me know when they're ready.
Nobliss Gordon (gotta love the villains who have simple motivations) and Hunt Cassidy.
Here's everything (I think) that's pending:
- Elondra Sharack (bobg)
- Ocarina!Ganon (CyberXIII)
- Colonel Count Vladimir Dragomirov from "Sharpe's Peril" (k410ren)
- Vonotar the Traitor; Zakhan Kimah; Archdruid Cadak (LoreDeluxe)
- Satan's Hollow duo (Morgenthaler)
- BIONICLE examples (Ravok)
- Lightysnake
- Shizumi & Tadane
- God; Lamia
- Limehouse Willie from Pray for Death
- Nobliss Gordon
- Scraggle
- Scott Mulgrew from American Ninja 4: The Annihilation
- Hunt Cassidy from Choker
- Cutter
- Malik from Java Heat

Elondra, Malik, and I though i'd never say this ever
God
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff