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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#80276: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:41:08 PM

[tup]Mr. Pixel.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#80277: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:43:22 PM

Okay, I THINK I got all the issues for this week's batch.

Where's Vichama's image again?

Prfnoff Since: Jan, 2001
#80278: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:45:54 PM

The only mitigating factor for Tark is that none of his actual victims are sympathetic characters, as the epilogue emphasizes ("everybody who got killed out there was a scumbag"). That said, his actions certainly set the heinousness standard, and he very nearly gets away with it all.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#80279: Apr 2nd 2017 at 7:56:48 PM

Hey ACW, can you send one last thing along to the edit request page. I just remembered something from one of my old RuneScape write ups that I think is worth adding given new information. It adds an extra level of sadism that I believe is worth adding. Under Lowerniel Drakan's entry I want the old sentence below replaced with the new sentence.

He forced Icyene Queen Efaritay to surrender by threatening to kill her husband King Ascertes, and later spent millennia trying to hunt down and kill their son Safalaan.

He forced Icyene Queen Efaritay to surrender by threatening to kill her husband King Ascertes, turned Ascertes into a vampyre anyways, and ordered the newly created Vanstrom Klause to spend millennia trying to hunt down and kill their son Safalaan.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#80280: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:09:03 PM

Not that anyone probably remembers me mentioning it, but since I finally returned it to the library, I'm not going to bother with an EP for The Tournament. That book's heinous standard is wack. Though it's worth checking out for the other Matthew Reilly fans (or historical fiction or mystery fans) in the thread, and if anyone disagrees I'm open to discussion.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
jjjj2 from Arrakis Since: Jul, 2015
#80282: Apr 2nd 2017 at 8:56:24 PM

[up][up][up][up]If you remember in the novel, Tark tries killing Tina and Jock, and does manage to shoot Fay (although he doesn't kill her). I wouldn't call Tina and Jock innocent but I would definitely call them comparatively innocent to any of the other people he killed. I definitely would call Fay a good guy.

edited 2nd Apr '17 8:56:54 PM by jjjj2

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#80283: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:14:38 PM

A 'Yes' to Fanfic!Validar.

Alrighty, I've got anothercomic Keeper to propose. This one was....weird. In a 20 issue comic series, he appears in ONE issue, and....well, yeah.

What's the work?

Pitt is a 90s comic by Dale Keown, published by Image Comics.

In it, the titular Anti-Hero 'Pitt' is an alien hybrid who shows up on Earth to fight baddies, kill Bill Clinton, and duel a galaxy killing madman.

One of these is our candidate. And I'm sad to say it's the galaxy killing madman.

Who is he?

Urgral Thul is a one-shot villain in the comic.

Apearing solely in the final issue of the comic, Issue #20, Thul IMMEDIATELY makes his mark as the most evil being in the story.

What has he done?

Thul is a planet devouring, demonic, necromancer-dude that travels to worlds, spends weeks slowly devouring the souls of all life on them, then leaves to find another world. By the time he is done, the planets are boneyards with poisoned air, boiling waters, and all that Hell-ish type stuff.

In the present, Thul has just finished devouring a world, and is first shown full onscreen sitting atop a throne of skeletons, surrounded by a landscape of the same, admiring what looks to be ornaments of past worlds he has annihilated, amounting at the least close to a dozen, with him boasting many more.

Havibg left a single being of the planet alive SOLELY so he can record the carnage Thull has wrought in a book, Thull orders the cowering alien to leave a final note for any following him seeking vengeanceor some such to mock them forbeingtoo late to stop him once more. He then proclaims to the alien that as soon as he finishes writing said final note in the book, he will kill him. Lovely guy.

After THAT finishes up, Thull shows up on Earth to challenge resident Anti-Hero the Pitt, who he proceeds to blast with uncountable amounts of souls he has devoured simply to torture the man with their wailings and screamings, as Thull keeps them in a state of constant agony because he enjoys the sounds of their screams.

As Pitt is distracted by this, Thul corners Pitt's teammates, proclaiming he's going to have fun finding vaeious ways to make them bleed and scream, before planning to do to Earth the same thing he has done to countless other worlds. He then plans to eventually devour every world across the cosmos, so yay.

Luckily, the Pitt, calming the agonized souls down long enough to talk to them, uses his powersto boost them up, givingthem the ability to shred Thull from the inside out as he screams in agony, ending his evil.

Well, mostly, as Pitt states that Thull still lives, having teleported away, but has been severely weakened and is harmless for the foreseeable future.

Yay, I....guess?

Freudian Excuse or other mitigating features?

Ah, no. Urgral Thull is an omnicidal monster who, though stated to 'feed' off the souls of his victims, is such a freaking sadist that it's not treated remotely sympathetically or "he's just trying to survive"-like.

Also, despite WHAT he is exactly being unknown, being called everything from a demon to a necromancer to an alien warlord, Thull shows no agency problems or anything. He knows he's bad, he loves being bad, and he's good at being bad. Nothing implies he's Made of Evil or any some such.

Heinousness?

This was a....really weird occurence. Pitt himself is a pretty nasty Anti-Hero at times, shredding through Mooks with a Slasher Smile on his face and the like, and the Big Bad had an evil take over the world thing going on.

Thull blows all of them out of the freaking water. He is a planet destroying, soul devouring sadist who, despite showing up out of NOWHERE in the FINAL issue alone, outstrips everyone in heinousness. Very strange occurence, indeed...

Final Verdict?

Keep him. And I will have an AMAZING quote from him up soon.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#80284: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:17:38 PM

[tup] Urgral Thull. I'd like to meet someone with a name like that who's, like, a pleasant accountant or something.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#80287: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:47:52 PM

Thrull's a yes.

edited 2nd Apr '17 9:48:03 PM by erazor0707

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#80288: Apr 2nd 2017 at 9:59:28 PM

Real quick first: Don't know how it happened (I blame spell check), but his name here is Urgral Thul. I kept putting two "L"s for some reason, which was weird. :/

Regardless, here's that quote a promised:

"If you know what I am, then you know you are about to die!....I am Urgral Thul. I have devoured the souls of sentient suns, slaughtered gods and raped angels. I have slain and consumed the life forces of countless reality champions like yourself. The fire that now burns you is made up of their enslaved spirits. I keep their ghosts inside me, so I can hear their eternal screams. Such anguished screams. If you could only hear them as I do. Soon you will be screaming with them."

Urgral Thul, Pit.

Thoughts?

edited 2nd Apr '17 10:00:31 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#80289: Apr 2nd 2017 at 11:02:52 PM

Sweet Jebus Ravok! Where do you find these assholes?

[tup] for Thul.

jjj
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#80290: Apr 3rd 2017 at 12:26:08 AM

Still looking for scans of the Cybersix Brazillian comic for information on José and his father who have some serious adaptational villainy.

Might have to resort to doing research on those two. I know the show versions despite numerous atrocities don't count either because of redeeming qualities or not meeting the heinous standard. (I.E. The number one cause of villains not making the cut)

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#80291: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:19:35 AM

[tup] Thul.

Was not expecting Pitt to get one of these.

Speaking of Image Comics, it's really weird to me we don't have anyone from Youngblood's issues. I mean, they're probably isn't anyone with enough characterisation to count and the heinous standard is stupid so maybe that's why, but still.

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#80292: Apr 3rd 2017 at 2:27:59 AM

Write up for Santini:

  • Opera: Inspector Santini was a serial killer in a relationship with Betty's mother. He would tie up women and kill them while she watched. After she pressured him to do it more often, he got fed up with her ordering him and killed her as well. Deciding to make Betty his new target, Santini stalks her at the opera house she is performing at and murders people in front of her after tying her up and forcing her eyes open so she sees everything. He kills three ravens during his murder spree, and eventually sets a rom on fire to kill Betty. When he survives, he pursues her all the way to the Swiss Alps to make her his.

Is this good for the drafts?

edited 3rd Apr '17 2:29:49 AM by bobg

jjj
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#80293: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:06:40 AM

[tup] Thul and the quote..

Yami: "Wack" as in NOBODY'S heinous enough, or "wack" as in EVERYBODY'S an asshole?

Santini looks fine (though that should probably be ROOM on fire instead of rom).

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:09:10 AM by ACW

YamiVizziniX Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
#80294: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:10:24 AM

Maybe that's the wrong word; it's just that the candidate I was thinking of didn't stand out quite as much as I remembered...

...eh, heck with it, I'll do a writeup just to get it out there. As my schedule allows.

There is no beginning. There is no end. There is only... Hooty.
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#80295: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:21:26 AM

I just watched Chronicles of Riddick: Dark Fury and shouldn't Antonia Chillingsworth be moved to Anime And Manga? The movie looked very much Anime to me.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:22:02 AM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#80297: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:39:42 AM

[tup] Urgral Thul.

[up][up] Was that an actual Japanese animated movie or is it just animesque? Just looking like anime isn't the same as actually being anime.

edited 3rd Apr '17 6:41:18 AM by TommyFresh

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#80298: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:52:32 AM

Does all Anime have to be Japanese? I don't think it actually has to be Japanese-made to be anime.

And I don't understand this whole Animation division. Why do Western and Eastern Animation have to be separated? I agree with Anime and Manga getting a separate page, but every other animation should be together. We don't separate Eastern and Western Live-Action films or TV Shows. Why should we divide Western and Eastern Animation? I am sorry, but I have Aspergers/ADHD and I kinda get confused/annoyed when something doesn't have a pattern. I am very sensitive to chaos.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#80299: Apr 3rd 2017 at 6:59:14 AM

[up] Actually, it does. Animesque =/= anime. Keep Dark Fury on Western Animation.

TommyFresh Since: Aug, 2013
#80300: Apr 3rd 2017 at 7:17:46 AM

I'm not exactly an expert, but I am pretty sure it has to be made in Japan to be classified as anime by Tv Tropes standards. It is somewhat arbitrary but it is mainly done to make organization easier and because most consider it separate from other animation. And the whole Eastern/Western thing is because Western Animation was what we called non-Japanese animation and we created the Eastern Animation label because animation from other Asian countries doesn't really fit as Western Animation.


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