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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#76951: Feb 10th 2017 at 6:30:12 PM

Vorstedt is the one who carries out all of Rudd's dirty work, and kills a ton of people.

Thing is, he's far more than just a professional. He shows a nice amount of enjoyment in his work, and was the one who killed Riggs' wife which he really twists the knife on.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#76952: Feb 10th 2017 at 6:33:35 PM

I might make another EP then, I forgot about Vorstedt being all Faux Affably Evil with Wyler before putting a round in his head. He does kill a lot of people, eight onscreen, nine if you count Riggs' wife.

edited 10th Feb '17 6:34:02 PM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#76953: Feb 10th 2017 at 7:03:39 PM

Gonna say 'No' to Grant. Really didn't get up to anything extraordinarily evil, IMO, even if one forgets the high heinous standard of the Arrowverse

On the other hand, will give a 'Yes' to Rudd. And here I thought Lethal Weapon franchise was too comedic to have a Keep (Though that's never stopped other films I suppose).

Alright, Ultron's meeting no opposition (SHOCKER!), so here's his write-up.

Side note: Once again, if no one minds, I'd like to reserve discussion for The Tick (2016). If no one objects, I'll ad it, alongside my comic reservations, to the Discussion Dates page.

  • Avengers Assemble: Ultron is one of the most recurring villains in the series, and easily one of the most depraved. Though built by Tony Stark for the forces of good, Ultron came to the conclusion that humanity was a flawed and chaotic race that needed to be eradicated to satisfy his immense superiority complex. After his plan to infect all of humanity with a techno virus fails, Ultron returns by killing and absorbing the Scientist Supreme into himself, and painfully tortures the Inhuman Black Bolt until he screams, and since his voice is supersonic, it will wipe out the entire surface of the Earth and all life on it. When seemingly defeated for good, Ultron impersonates a government official, uses his position to declare Inhumans threats to humanity and round them up for imprisonment or termination, then infects them with a mind control chip, at which point he orders them to go on a worldwide rampage. Ultron hopes that this will lead to a race war between humanity and the Inhumans and that they will wipe each other out, however when this is thwarted by the Avengers, Ultron simply prompts to both order all his drones ttro kill everything in sight across the Earth, then tries to redirect the radiation of the atmosphere to incinerate all life on the planet. In a final scheme, Ultron jumps into Tony Stark's mind, knowing the Avengers won't harm their friend, and plans to continue his crimes after killing the Avengers using Stark's body. His claims of "eliminating pain" and "perfecting" humanity utterly trashed by his overly sadistic personality, notably seen when he had a gleeful grin on his face while trying to phase his arm through Thor's chest, Ultron is, much like his comic counterpart, a narcissistic misanthrope with nothing but hatred and smug cruelty defining his personality.

edited 10th Feb '17 7:38:28 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
DuelMark Since: Mar, 2011
#76954: Feb 10th 2017 at 7:57:37 PM

[tdown] Deathstroke's son, since he seems to just be avenging his father.

"Sam Manson is a terrible character."
Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#76955: Feb 10th 2017 at 7:59:16 PM

Late [tup] to Ultron.

[tup] Rudd.

[tdown] to Deathstroke II, for reasons already listed.

edited 10th Feb '17 8:00:24 PM by Beast

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
EvilKid Nondescript Bystander from Under the Exosphere Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Nondescript Bystander
#76956: Feb 10th 2017 at 9:27:17 PM

The killer from Lord Edgware Dies. When someone lacks any guilt after murder and even has the gall to call Poirot for unravelling the truth, s/he/they definitely counts as CM. It's Lady Edgware aka Jane Wilkinson.

Sometimes I am under the moonlight and sometimes under the sunlight.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#76957: Feb 10th 2017 at 9:37:26 PM

We're going to need much more than that to propose someone.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#76958: Feb 10th 2017 at 9:38:09 PM

[up] No, a lack of remorse isn't all that begets a CM. Does the killer do anything other than kill this one guy?

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#76959: Feb 10th 2017 at 11:55:07 PM

The Card Player: The titular Card Player is a serial killer who is a police officer and who kidnaps women and tortures them to death, before sending a recording to the police. He lies that the killings are live, and that the women can be saved if the police beat him in an online poker game. When the police hire a skilled poker player, the killer, realizing that the police would win and, if the woman was still killed, realize that the killings are pre recorded, reluctantly releases the woman before the game, but later kills the player. He lures an officer into a booby trap to kill him. Finally, he handcuffs the protagonist to the train tracks to get run over. He appears to have some honor at first, handcuffing himself as well and offering the key to whichever one of them wins a poker game, but when she beats him, he reveals that he has a spear to free himself so he can kill her personally, showing he has no honor at all.

Does this need work or can it go to the drafts?

edited 11th Feb '17 12:06:23 AM by bobg

jjj
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#76960: Feb 11th 2017 at 1:14:38 AM

With the Not-So-Well-Intentioned Extremist trope existing (I know this is a little off topic) but could Yggdrasil from Tales of Symphonia count for that trope? I mean sure, he wants to revive his sister, but we find out this would only benefit him. While he does have other mitigating qualities (like a love for his sister and persecution from non-half elves) keeping him from being a Complete Monster, he nonetheless acts only in his ideals and his plan honestly felt more selfish than anything. Actually come to think of it, is the persecution for half-elves really enough to disqualify him? We have Muruta Azrael who was bullied by coordinaters and wants to "purify" the world in a similar fashion to Yggdrasil. Plus Yggdrasil split the world in two causing both worlds to vie for the worlds mana and if it weren't for him, Kvar and Rodyle wouldn't have their positions of power so they could torment their victims. Honestly I'd say the bad outweighs the good, but I'm not sure. Care to explain, someone who is more familiar with the series?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76961: Feb 11th 2017 at 1:47:20 AM

Okay, since my desktop decided to be a DICK last night (I'm using my laptop), this week's batch might have to be added to next week's.

EDIT: Never mind, I got it to work. I also copied the file to a flash drive just in case.

edited 11th Feb '17 5:27:20 AM by ACW

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76963: Feb 11th 2017 at 6:31:11 AM

  • bobg: Looks good.
  • I guess I'll [tup] Rudd. He has double-digit murders it seems (I saw that film, but like between 15-20 years ago).

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#76964: Feb 11th 2017 at 6:38:05 AM

To sidetrack from Lethal Weapon:

Durza from Eragon:

Who is he? Durza is a shade, an Evil Sorcerer who can only be killed with a stab to the heart. He is right-hand man to King Galbatorix and The Heavy for the film.

What does he do? At the beginning of the film, Durza captures the Elven princess Arya, who was transporting a dragon egg. The egg comes into the possession of a young Farm Boy named Eragon, who becomes a Dragon Rider. Durza is ordered to kill the boy, first sending assassins known as the Ra'zac, who murder Eragon's uncle Garrow and raze his home. Eragon is forced to flee with his dragon Saphira and Brom, the village storyteller. Durza sends a party of Urgals next; when they fail to capture Eragon, Durza kills his subordinate for his failure. He decides to lure Eragon to his fortress, forcing Arya, whom he has poisoned, to contact Eragon telepathically. When he arrives, Durza attacks Eragon to the point he can no longer defend himself, forcing Brom to commit a Heroic Sacrifice. During their duel, Durza taunts Eragon with the fact that a dragon's fate is tied to its Rider: "They say as a Rider draws his last breath, he can hear the dying screams of his dragon." Arya begins to fall ill with the poison, forcing Eragon to hurry to the Varden to help her, leading Durza right to them. Durza attacks the Varden's stronghold with a large force, creating a Giant Flyer made out of smoke rising from the remains of his men to combat Eragon, inviting him to "Taste the blood of your dragon!" In the duel, Durza severely injures Saphira, taunting Eragon again: "Hear her scream!", taking sadistic delight in his foes' agony before being killed by Eragon in Revenge. Durza delighted in pain from foes and subordinates alike, committing vile actions with a permanent Psychotic Smirk.

Freudian Excuse?

None. He had a Freudian Excuse in the novel, but this is Adapted Out of the film.

Mitigating Circumstances?

None.

Heinous Standard?

As The Heavy to the Orcus on His Throne Galbatorix, he sets the standard.

edited 13th Feb '17 12:24:24 PM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#76965: Feb 11th 2017 at 6:39:56 AM

I've seen the movie and Durza just stroke me as generic villain. No to him.

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#76966: Feb 11th 2017 at 6:42:26 AM

[tup] Arjen Rudd

[tdown] Grant Wilson. Offscreen Villainy and falls short compared to Vandal Savage.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#76967: Feb 11th 2017 at 7:05:44 AM

What does Galbathrox do exactly and what kind of heinous standard does he set? Being an Orcus on His Throne doesn't automatically make him less heinous than his subordinates.

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#76968: Feb 11th 2017 at 7:09:31 AM

He doesn't do much onscreen than order the death of Eragon and the Varden, cut up a huge map and be Evil Is Hammy; most of his stuff is Offstage Villainy, where he killed Dragon Riders to take the throne for himself. There's also forced conscriptions into the Imperial Army.

edited 11th Feb '17 7:14:55 AM by k410ren

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#76969: Feb 11th 2017 at 7:26:37 AM

Besides his lack of Freudian Excuse, is there anything that stands out Durza from his book counterpart? I read the first book of the series a long time ago and don't remeber much of it.

edited 11th Feb '17 7:33:08 AM by Silverblade2

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#76970: Feb 11th 2017 at 10:01:47 AM

[tup] Arjen Rudd.

Not sure on Durza. I saw Eragon a while back but remember nothing about it. Except Jeremy Irons.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#76971: Feb 11th 2017 at 11:41:46 AM

YMMV page sweep M:

Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries

  • Complete Monster: Many, even some of the victims. Of the worst is George Sanderson, vice police chief, Dirty Cop, and seller of young girls to be Sex Slaves for £10 a girl. And Nicholas Mortimer who was willing to kill over 30 people for some gold and funsies.

Sound like keepers, especially Sanderson, but much more data is needed.

MM

  • Complete Monster: Yoshioka, A Model student who is a member of a kickboxing club, and also the one who assaulted Yunno, both physically and sexually for trying to have sex with her and scratching his face along with how he spread false rumors of Yunno being a slut as payback for rejecting his advances
    • He had the gall of enjoying Yunno's fear and whimpering at the sight of him when she bump at him down at the streets, phone-calling threats about keeping what happen in junior high to her in she wants to remain unharmed, or ever alive for that matter, and taking pure enjoyment on beating up Taro in a fight to stop Yoshioka from abusing Yunno any longer (Which means that He LOVES to beat up people and women as well as treating girls as sex toys (one of the reasons why he still abuses Yunno), and God helps us if he is also willing to murder Yunno, and possibly any other girls he meets, for not letting them have their way with them. thankfully Taro, after shoving off some hits and with a little "Help" for Mio, takes that jerk with ONE punch, and Yumi, Yunno's friend, helps out in giving this abusive model his just desserts and promise to never bother Yunno again.

Could be heinous enough, but this entry is bad.

Mordant's Need

  • Complete Monster: Eremis, since he was a boy. And he revels in being one. Gilbur has no redeeming traits, but he's just a lapdog.

ZCE for Eremis, and Gilbur has a disqualifier in the entry.

My Work is Not Yet Done

  • Complete Monster: Usually Ligotti averts this to some degree, but Harry, Richard's Dragon and Brute, definitely qualifies for this title. In stark contrast to many of Ligotti's other antagonists, there is nothing remotely likeable about him. He is inelegant, petty, self-absorbed and wantonly destructive. And did we fail to mention that he's also a serial rapist? How charming.
    • To some degree, all of the Seven are like this, but Harry is the only one to outdo them all in terms of sheer repulsiveness. Only Richard himself comes close, but even he avoids sinking as low as Harry through simply being utterly brilliant.

Harry has potential, but it's explicitly stated that rest of the Seven aren't as bad.

emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#76972: Feb 11th 2017 at 1:05:36 PM

[up] By the way DDOD, are you still planning to effort-post Last Knights?

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#76973: Feb 11th 2017 at 2:02:27 PM

Crap, I forgot about that one. I'm not in a position to watch it right now.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#76974: Feb 11th 2017 at 2:12:33 PM

Miss Fisher probably has some candidates in it. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few more surefire keepers in the book series.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76975: Feb 11th 2017 at 2:15:55 PM

Murdoch Foyle seems like he could be a candidate.


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