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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#76651: Feb 3rd 2017 at 9:26:20 PM

It's been a fortnight since [[Film/Split]] was released. Could any of Kevin's personalities count? What about Casey's uncle John?

edited 3rd Feb '17 9:26:42 PM by bobg

jjj
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#76652: Feb 3rd 2017 at 9:31:42 PM

Nobody from Split counts at all

thok That's Dr. Title, thank you! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
That's Dr. Title, thank you!
#76653: Feb 3rd 2017 at 10:18:23 PM

It's been a bit over two weeks since The Adventures of Dr. McNinja ended. My opinion is that nobody counts (King Radical and Sparklelord are heinous enough, but each of them have enough in the way of Redeeming Factors or Freudian Excuses to avoid the trope), but I figure asking for a second opinion can't hurt.

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#76655: Feb 3rd 2017 at 11:52:14 PM

It's also been two weeks since the release of the second season of Voltron: Legendary Defender but I think Zorkon can't be discussed yet. He's in the coma in the last episode but not killed.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#76656: Feb 4th 2017 at 12:01:47 AM

[up]Wasn't the main reason he wasn't discussed just lack of personality, though? That's not something that needs arc resolution.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#76657: Feb 4th 2017 at 12:23:24 AM

[up] Being a Flat Character doesn't prevent a character from being a CM. And I don't think he's GDV, taking over the galaxy, as cliche as it is, still counts as a motivation.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#76658: Feb 4th 2017 at 1:10:35 AM

What I mean is, the reason we wait for characters' arcs to end is because of the possibility that they might get a disqualifying trait later (which I've never really understood, but whatever). A character deemed a GDV can't possibly get less personality, and is certainly unlikely to get a redeeming trait, so there's really no reason to wait on having a discussion.

Edit: I'm not actually suggesting you go ahead and propose Zarkon. I've been watching Voltron LD, largely enjoying it, and don't consider him a bad villain - but he's a basic evil space emperor whose distinctions from other evil space emperors are largely aesthetic, who thus far hasn't done a whole lot himself and whose empire's worst actions are mostly offscreen. (Though I suppose it's possible that some of that might change past the point I've reached, having not yet finished the first season).

I'm just saying that waiting if you want to go ahead seems a little silly in this particular case.

edited 4th Feb '17 1:37:11 AM by nrjxll

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76659: Feb 4th 2017 at 1:39:53 AM

So after Ravok's latest proposals (and the one in a week or 2), there'll be over 30 entries on Marvel Animation. Surely there's got to be at least one good image that we can use.

LordYAM Since: Jan, 2015
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#76661: Feb 4th 2017 at 2:53:14 AM

Ah Nrjxll's watching Voltron! Good stuff mate, Season 2's a blast.

Though if we are going to talk Zarkon I still don't think his arc is over yet as he's still alive. Maybe Season 4? As it stands he's a very basic overlord villain. Many of his onscreen actions are just standard evil rather than depths of cruelty and the centuries long war he's waged and all the enslaved planets are predominantly offscreen or the actions are being performed by commanders that Zarkon doesn't bother to micromanage.

Lot's of trying to kill the heroes and You Have Failed Me towards his subordinates, while some of the bigger Kick the Dog moments the Altean genocide are for the most part offscreen and his betrayal of Alfor having little focus in the plot.

edited 4th Feb '17 2:57:21 AM by DrPsyche

DeCarta Since: May, 2011
#76662: Feb 4th 2017 at 7:23:06 AM

[tup] to Orion and the Polymath.

[up] Huh. That was pretty much my exact thought on this when I finished watching the season (only took an afternoon; blizzard in my hometown).

edited 4th Feb '17 7:25:36 AM by DeCarta

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#76663: Feb 4th 2017 at 9:09:31 AM

@ACW: Whoops, you're right. Only 6 Marvel Animation candidates this week. I'm losing it, I tell ya!

BTW, what'd you think of Rubicon? It gory enough for ya? [lol]

As for an image, I think one of these could work:

Herr Kleiser.

Omega Red.

edited 4th Feb '17 9:41:04 AM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#76665: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:11:55 AM

As others have stated...thus far, Zarkon is the type of character who should be a CM, but thus far, despite being a genocidal, immortal tyrant with the blood of billions on his hands of a galaxy-spanning empire built on oppression and slavery...he hasn't really done very much onscreen. I don't think he's a GDV. He has a clear personality, relationships, a clear desire to reclaim the Black Lion and the reveal he's a Fallen Hero means there's a lot to his past to explore.

But he doesn't count right now. The only CM characters in all of Golion or Voltron right now are Zarkon and Lotor's original incarnations, Diabazaal and Sincline, who are genocidal, slaving rapists

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#76666: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:49:35 AM

[up] Well I have only seen season 1 of the new Voltron show, but even if Zarkon was not done a lot yet, there are hints of his empire's evil. The first season had that planet the Galra were mining for resources, enslaving the local population and then let the population die after they extracted all the resources.

I don't think this version of Zarkon will become a rapist, but I could see him doing something evil enough to count in the future. He bears watching.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76667: Feb 4th 2017 at 10:54:17 AM

Well, I just finished Vol. 1 of Dokuro. So far, the Big Bad seems more of an Orcus on His Throne, not really doing anything himself. Also, Lighty, is it me, or did he seem upset (Ch. 5 I think) when he finds out one of his henchman killed the faithful follower and blamed it on Takeo? Or am I reading too much into it.
[down] Cool.

edited 4th Feb '17 12:28:01 PM by ACW

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#76668: Feb 4th 2017 at 11:37:44 AM

Just keep going, we can discuss it after you've finished.

I'm not denying we see hints of Zarkon's empire's evil, but I don't think it's enough to put him on the list yet.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#76669: Feb 4th 2017 at 12:32:24 PM

YMMV page sweep G:

GARO

ZCE, but the other example on the page is approved.

Geek Love

  • Complete Monster: Arty. There is almost nothing redeemable about him. He is vindictive, spiteful, petty, cruel, self-absorbed, unkind to anyone except when he's manipulating them for his own end, all while seeing them as nothing but pawns he'll gladly discard once he's done with them. Action-wise he only ever insults, belittles, maims, kills, and arranges the rape of others. He's cruel to Oly despite her undying devotion to him, murdered previous siblings and attempted to murder Chick as a baby for fear that they'd become bigger stars than him, starts the Arturan cult specifically to manipulate people into worshiping him and giving him their life-savings and maim themselves so they can be like him, arranges the twins to be raped as punishment for having sex with other men without his permission, forces them to carry their 20lb Child by Rape to term, lobotomizes Ellie so he can have Iphy to himself, and more. He's also completely uninterested in his own daughter Miranda, and casually threatens to kill her (something Oly knows he won't hesitate to do) for being "useless" and "a normie."

Probably counts.

Gift der Republik

  • Complete Monster:
    • Dr. Frank Granow. A top-ranking Stasi biochemist and personal friend of East German dictaror Erich Honecker, he conducts lethal human experimentation with a content smile on his face and has a plan to seize power in Germany that involves many deaths. When he realizes he cannot escape KGB, he has no qualms in killing is wife and himself with the serum and staging an explosion to leave Katja with a thirst for vengeance against the West.
    • Andrey Karloff. A ruthless ex-KGB operative, he gleefully kills people to cover his tracks, eliminate obstacles, clean up loose ends, test lethal weapons, or just for kicks. In addition to being a high-functioning psychopath, he's a manipulator, a narcissist and all-around dick.
      • The damage he does to Katja's life: first he stalks her for her father's lethal weapon, becoming sexually obsessed. He kidnaps, mutilates and murders her boyfriend. Then, under the guise of her father's associate, he inserts himself into Katja's life, date-rapes her, and installs himself as an abusive, controlling boyfriend, reducing her to a housewife and regularly coercing her for sex. After she refuses to transfer her bank account to him, he brutally rapes her and outright turns her into his Sex Slave, gloating that he killed her boyfriend and threatening to have her little half-brother tortured and killed if she tries anything.
    • Saudi magnate Saleh Fayyad. A close associate of Osama bin Laden and instrumental in the rise of ISIS, he takes over the organization. He is no less maniacal than Granow and Karloff when he had the serum reproduced, and plans to use it to kill millions. Even more horrifyingly than the previous two, he does not plan for his assassins to wear gloves when administering the serum, turning them suicidal. Not that they would mind.

Sound like keepers

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76670: Feb 4th 2017 at 12:37:13 PM

PM the Tropers, but yeah, all except Garo indeed seems like contenders.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#76671: Feb 4th 2017 at 1:35:19 PM

For the curious, RWBY Volume 4's finale aired for RT members today but will air for the public next Saturday. So now we finally have a definitive discussion date. Two-week rule still applies.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76672: Feb 4th 2017 at 1:56:33 PM

Alright, I finished Dokuro. Expect an effortpost or two (EDIT: or three), probably tomorrow.

edited 4th Feb '17 2:20:02 PM by ACW

Cheapsunglasses Proud ZZ Top fan from Right next to you (just kidding!) Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Proud ZZ Top fan
#76673: Feb 4th 2017 at 2:21:14 PM

Hi again. Sorry if my repeated presence on this bothers any of you. Here are some potential candidates I thought of (I apologize in advance if I bring up someone that was already discussed):

1. Casanova Frankenstein from "Mystery Men". Yes, the film is a comedic superhero parody, but despite being pretty funny himself, Casanova Frankenstein still has no redeeming qualities. To wit, once he's paroled, the first thing he does after getting all his stuff back is blow up the insane asylum he was formerly incarcerated in, killing a lot of people—not because he disliked the place, but just to lure Captain Amazing to his lair. He then builds a doomsday machine, the Psycho-Fraculator, which fatally warps reality, and intends to unleash it on Champion City (yes, it's really called that). When the (kinda-sorta-not-really) eponymous group shows up to stop him, he kidnaps the leader's girlfriend, then kills one of the gangs in his employ just to prove a point about how "evil always wins" because heroes "play by the rules". Again, while he is funny, he committed two acts of mass murder on-screen for no real reason, and since we get to see (in graphic detail) how the Psycho-Fraculator kills people, he's pretty sadistic.

2. Joffrey Baratheon from a number of Go T fanfics, namely "Greyjoy Alla Breve" and "Hear Me Roar". I know he's a CM in both book and show canons, but the YMMV pages of both stories list him specifically to mention his crimes in those stories. In fact, that's something I'd like to ask: is it alright to give a character in a Fan Work a CM title if he/she is one in canon?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#76674: Feb 4th 2017 at 2:25:17 PM

[up] "is it alright to give a character in a Fan Work a CM title if he/she is one in canon?" Only if they qualify in the fan work, but yes. In fact, we have another version of Joffrey. We also have a version of Medusa Gorgon, several versions (like 4) of Joker, a version of King Ghidorah, and a version of Darkseid.

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#76675: Feb 4th 2017 at 2:32:49 PM

Has anyone here watched American Dragon Jake Long? I was reading The Huntsman's CM entry and his Freudian Excuse sounds kind of tragic, like it mentions he was mocked for his squeaky voice and then mauled to the point of near death which damaged him physically and mentally. I know his actions are terrible but this sounds like a solid Freudian Excuse.


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