During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Hey, Monday. So, here's a rewrite I think should be done. Chrell/Oroku Saki/The Shredder from the 2003 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Namely because it's too long and it talks about the events of Same As It Never Was, which was set in a Bad Future and not what the present Shedder was doing.
Ch'rell from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (2003) and the movie Turtles Forever was an Utrom criminal who was imprisoned by his people (who are generally peaceful) for his various crimes that we find out resulted in the deaths of millions of innocent beings. Ch'rell managed to force the transport ship he was being carried on to crash on Earth. Ch'rell escaped and took the guise of an Japanese crime boss named Oroku Saki, better known as the Shredder. Shredder wanted revenge on his people and went to great lengths to find the Utroms still marooned on Earth. In the 2003 series, Shredder attacked Splinter's master, Hamato Yoshi, believing he worked for the Utroms. After having his minions work over Yoshi with torture, Shredder personally killed Yoshi, an act that would lead to Shredder becoming the Turtles' Arch-Enemy. Shredder's Foot Ninja also kidnapped innocent people and mutated them into monsters to use as slave labor to try a locate a possible Utrom base underground. Shredder has proven to be a very cruel boss, murdering one of his men who the Turtles stopped from delivering some stolen goods for him, and punishing Baxter Stockman for his failures, by grievously injuring him, until eventually Stockman was nothing more than a Brain in a Jar. Shredder also displayed a complete disregard for human life. After an Triceraton Invasion resulted in Beijing becoming a city floating in the sky, Shredder decides to steal the antigravity generator that is keeping the city in the air. When Karai objects that stealing the generator will result in the city crashing into the ground and killing millions in the process, Shredder overrules her and tells her to do it anyway. Later on, Donatello visits a Bad Future where Shredder is a dictator who controls the world. He has Secret Police on the streets to round up any dissenters and is using both Utrom and human slave labor (with humans having to work 18 hours a day) to build a giant teleportation device, so Shredder can conquer other planets. In this future, Shredder executes his former servant Hun, who is begging to be let back into the Shredder's service. In Turtles Forever, Ch'rell makes his return. After being rescued from imprisonment by 1987 Shredder and Krang, Utrom Shredder takes over their Technodrome and uses its technology to try and conquer The Multiverse. When Shredder discovered that the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are in every alternative reality, he starts to lose it. Shredder decides to find the Prime Universe and kill the Turtles in that reality, which he believes will destroy the rest the multiverse. When Shredder discovers that he too will be destroyed along with the rest of the multiverse, Shredder still doesn't care, putting his desire for revenge above everything.
This rewrite of mine simplifies and just talks about the essentials.
Ch’rell is a villainous Utrom, a normally peaceful race, responsible for various crimes throughout the galaxy, causing war on other planets to profit off the millions of lives lost. Captured by his people, he caused their ship to crash on Earth, stealing the identity of the late Oroku Saki, aka The Shredder. Founding the Foot Clan, Shredder spent ages hunting down the Utroms and continue his plans for galactic conquest. Upon finding the home of the Utrom’s guardian, Hamato Yoshi, Shredder personally murdered him for refusing to give their location. Shredder’s further crimes in the series include kidnapping random citizens to be turned into monsters for slave labor, executed a Purple Dragon member for failure, frequent physical mutilation of Baxter Stockman until he was reduced to a Brain in a Jar, and stealing the anti-gravity generator left in Beijing from the Triceraton invasion, ignoring Karai’s protests that doing so will result in millions of deaths. Constructing a ship that will take him find the Utroms, he assaulted the Turtles and Splinter to near death for continuously interfering with his plans, then assault Karai for trying to stop him. After being imprisoned for his crimes, Shredder is eventually freed by an alternate world counterpart. Taking control of the Technodrome from his saviors, Shredder learns of The Multiverse and goes mad at learning of other Ninja Turtles. He decides to find the Prime Universe to kill those Turtles, believing that will erase all Turtles from existence. His assault on that universe erases all others from existence, not caring his own ceased to exist. Upon learning their deaths will mean his own destruction, he decides his revenge is more important. Egotistical, sociopathic and power-hungry, Shredder valued conquest and revenge enough that not even risking the end of life itself would stop him.
At 299 words.
edited 23rd Jan '17 10:30:11 PM by DuelMark
"Sam Manson is a terrible character."
this Joker. Ah gotta love that demented bastard
edited 24th Jan '17 12:32:40 AM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Alt!Joker (Humans Are the Real Monsters indeed).
Ch'Rell rewrite. I mean, we COULD add the Bad Future stuff, but his other actions are more than enough. Please add to the Drafts page (Ravok, please add your stuff too).
BTW, the Web Original part of Other Media may be ready to be spun off into its own page before too long. Currently 18 entries (for comparison, Webcomics has 20).
Alrighty, time for a couple more alternate versions of superheroes stories, only is time, not DC's Elseworlds, but rather the Marvel Comis' counterpart What If?.
Now, contrary to Elseworlds, What If? in general isn't about alternate universes, but rather alternate choices of canon characters, making CMs often not very prevalent.
However, there are a few alternate universe stories, and, unsurprisingly, I've found a Keep or two so far. So, without further ado...
Who is he?
Colonel Buck "Bucky" Barnes is the Big Bad of the alternate universe story What If Captain America Fought in the Civil War, which is....exactly what it sounds like.
As the seemingly kind and noble leader of the Union Regiment called the "Redlegs" who are currently heading toward a county called "Jackson County" to look for any Confederate troops or bases, Barnes quickly shows he is actually anything but a model Union soldier....
What has he done?
In the opening scenes, Barnes leads a full-out massacre on a defenseless town located in Confederate county of Jackson, where he and his troops kill every man, woman, and child (A baby is seen being prepared to shot as well) in the town, then sets the homes ablaze while they pilfer any money or treasure they come across. Barnes notes that this is far from the first time they've done this, and they plan to continue doing it under the pretense of the towns being "Confederate sympathizers".
When a new recruit by the name of Steve Rogers, horrified at what Barnes is up to, tries to sneak three children away, Barnes halts Rogers and, to test his mettle, orders him to gun down the defenseless children. Rogers obviously refuses and manages to help the kids escape before being shot by Barnes, however, before Barnes deal the finishing blow, an eagle zooms down on him and claws his face up, giving Rogers enough time to flee.
Learning that Rogers has taken up residence at a nearby Union base, Barnes demands they hand Rogers over to them, unaware that Rogers has recently been given magical power by animal spirits and stuff (Long story), and attempts to kill Rogers.
Barnes is then blasted by Rogers' magic, which makess the outside appearance of men match their hearts, and Barnes face is transformed into the sign of death itself....a WHITE SKULL (Dun dun dun!!!).
Outraged at his lack of a nose (And everything else), Barnes orders his men to kill everyone in the base that isn't part of his group, leading to many deaths of Union soldiers, both those who helped Rogers and were good, plus Barnes' own evil group.
Though killing numerous "enemy" troops and nearly killing Rogers, Barnes/White Skull is defeated. It is noted that years later, Barnes escaped prison and, using the remains of the Ku Klux Klan, created a new terrorist group of white supremacists, who, despite Barnes' death at some point, are still active in the present and most recently tried to bomb a building.
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
None. He talks up a big speech about "freedom" and "equality" in the very first pages, but by the time he's leaded the wholesale slaughter of defenseless men, women, and children, something he's done before, his true colors of racism and greed come to the forefront and override any previous "noblity" seeming personality features.
Heinousness?
As a What If? story that takes place in a completely alternate world than the main 616 universe of Marvel Comics, Barnes doesn't have to contend with basically ANY of the main canon's villains.
So, between his regular massacres of entire town (Children and babies included), his attempting murder of a man who wouldn't kill children, his ordering a base of people technically on his side be murdered, and his crime of creating a terrorist group that, even decades later, is still targeting dozens of innocents, I'd say he handily makes it.
Final Verdict?
I say Keep this Composite Character of Bucky Barnes and Red Skull. Everyone else?
edited 24th Jan '17 9:45:02 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Here's my write-up for Adeline March from The Thirteenth Tale:
- Adeline March is the unstable and violent twin sister of Emmeline and cousin of Vida Winter, who described Adeline as "genuinely dangerous" and that "violence was always her first instinct". The twins, inseparable while growing up, had the run of the house while children and caused all sorts of havoc, which came to a head when the two pushed a baby in a carriage down a hill. When the local doctor's wife came to inquire about the incident, Adeline, who was nine years old, hit the doctor's wife in the back of the head with a violin. The twins' mother was framed for the incident and a governess was hired to instill discipline. On the first day of school, Adeline stabbed Emmeline in the ankle with a pencil. The twins were separated for a time to see if they would improve but to no avail; when the girls were reunited, Adeline gave Emmeline a No-Holds-Barred Beatdown. When the three girls were 17, Adeline murdered two of the servants, Missus and John-the-dig; the former For the Evulz, the latter because he acted as a mentor to Vida. Shortly afterwards, Emmeline was impregnated by Ambrose Proctor, a local boy working at the house. Despite her bond with her sister, Adeline attempted to murder Emmeline's baby twice, forcing Vida to hide him in the village. In her attempts to murder the boy, Adeline set the house on fire, prompting the normally docile Emmeline to go on the attack for the first time in her life. In the ensuing fight, Vida was forced to lock Adeline in the burning room to save herself and Emmeline. Adeline was willing to cross any line to receive attention and didn't care who she hurt in the process, with her actions casting shadows to the present.
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Please add here. Also, didn't you say that's the TV version or something? I wanna make sure I have it under the correct page.
Incidentally, I TENTATIVELY plan this weekend to find Saracen's issues and see if he counts, and next week I hope to read some more manga by Tetsuya Saruwatari and see if anyone counts.
edited 24th Jan '17 10:45:29 AM by ACW
Questions about the following quotes:
The former merely seems like a major Kick the Dog as opposed to something that shows this is a consistent attribute of the character. The latter doesn't give enough to establish Dark Samus as anything more then a Generic Doomsday Villain. Thoughts on cutting.
edited 24th Jan '17 10:59:25 AM by Ferot_Dreadnaught
My hunt of the day
- Complete Monster: Emperor Palpatine
. Ian Mc Darmid described him as "more evil than The Devil".
- Complete Monster: The Lord of Entropía and Cénit (at least in the beginning).
- Complete Monster: Redgrave. He's an unrepentant rapist and murderer, who seeks to enslave a girl to gain power for himself, thinks murdering an entire family is a merely "a night's entertainment", essentially mind rapes people for fun and doesn't even have a Freudian Excuse.
- Complete Monster: Lord Murder. He brutally kills any body who would oppose him, and literally uses Legion to draw cannon fire.
- Complete Monster: In Marvel 1985, he and a bunch of other Marvel villains travel to a superhero-less world. M.O.D.O.K.'s idea of "fun" is to telepathicaly force the entire population of a village to march into a lake and drown. Babies included.
Penny And Aggie Missing Person Cyndi And Charlotte
- Complete Monster: Cyndi fits all the criteria for this trope:
- The story shows her manipulating Charlotte into suicide not simply to save her life, but for her own amusement. In addition, we are shown an extract from her private journal in which she outlines her plans to manipulate Daphne and Meg, among others, into killing themselves. Finally, Cyndi had earlier been shown (albeit to a subtler degree) manipulating Michelle into developing an eating disorder; that this was her intention is confirmed by Cyndi estimating later in her journal that Michelle would've been dead in about two weeks if "the Peacies" hadn't stepped in.
- Cyndi's Manipulative Bastard ways are Played for Drama, in this storyline and in previous ones featuring her. Even the master manipulator Stan finds her intimidating, and even The Fundamentalist Charlotte, with berserker tendencies, considers her an evil that must be stopped.
- No justification is ever offered for her misdeeds, other than mental illness (Campbell has said on the forum only that she has elements of antisocial personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder [but without being a textbook case of either], as well as traces of the psychotic delusion that the universe exists solely for her benefit).
- Cyndi never performs a selfless act and never shows remorse for her misdeeds, whether they be feigning sexual or romantic interest in others, helping to break up a relationship, or manipulating others into killing themselves. What's more, she derives Better than Sex pleasure from her actions. The closest Cyndi comes to possessing a relatable human trait is when she reflects on how her inability to relate to others makes her isolated and somewhat lonely, hence her crush on Sara-as-Lady-Macbeth. However, that loneliness never prompts her even to try changing her ways.
- Due to the nature of her mental illness—a complete lack of empathy, conscience and remorse—a Heel–Face Turn, even a Redemption Equals Death, would be wholly unrealistic. Thus, her fate in the end is to suffer assault, confinement, torture and potential murder at the hands of a character too much of a wild card for her to anticipate, and as an indirect result of that, to see the testimony of her own journal condemn her to involuntary psychiatric commitment and thus removal from the story.
Note: Cindi has an approved entry there: Penny and Aggie but I don't think we need that Wall of Text
- Complete Monster: Aloyse von Roddenstein (or Rodney for short), as he was more than willing to send the Earth into a new Ice Age that will put billions of lives in danger. Even when being previously shown that he was just as goofy as Doof and that he cares for his son Orville and robot assistant Chloe, Rodney completely subverts this all during his plot, as he selfishly wants to prove a petty point about showing who's in charge of the Earth.
- Complete Monster: Sophia Hess, a.k.a. Shadow Stalker, is a sadistic bully who targets Taylor Herbert, calling her "prey". While Emma was a Well-Intentioned Extremist whose goal was to awaken Taylor's superpowers, Hess just wanted a victim to torment. During her time as a "hero", Hess would go out of her way to brutalize her targets, much to the disgust of her comrades. After Taylor exposed her brutality, which got her kicked out of the Wards and imprisoned, Hess breaks out of prison, kidnaps Taylor, carves the word "PREY" onto her forehead, and attempts to burn her to death before the Undersiders arrive to stop her.
- Complete Monster: Duke. The man is a pedophile and pimp. He keeps children as his personal sex slaves until they grow too old for him, moving onto the next one, and keeping the now grown girls as prostitutes.
edited 24th Jan '17 11:18:30 AM by Silverblade2
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I actually like the second one. While I myself added the first one, I see what you're saying (though it may work as a page quote if Ultra Series ever gets its own page).
Funny thing is, that Wall of Text would be a good EFFORTPOST, but not an entry.
As for Jacks, I kinda like Whittle.
edited 24th Jan '17 11:09:40 AM by ACW
Are you serious? Now I'm giving an
for goddamn Bucky Barnes, canonically one of the biggest Woobies ever!?
Well, I guess being a bit of Red Skull helps. Who came up with that, though? "Yeah, let's combine Bucky and Red Skull together!"
In case it wasn't clear, I'm in favour of adding "Redlegs" Barnes.

Yes to another Joker.
Honestly, while CM Joker's are really excessive, they still tend to be fun to watch in my opinion. I've said it before, but I'm personally bored with all the CM incarnations of Jack the Ripper.