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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7526: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:49:48 PM

Hamburger Time:

I'd say no, Junior chooses to continue down the path, and she runs a criminal empire that makes daddy envious (or would, if he were alive). The two have never appeared in a story together as villains. While Ragdoll Sr. is responsible for Junior's start, Junior knows clearly what she does is wrong and completely fails to care. She just wants to hurt everyone and everything, and goes so unbelievably, nightmarishly far, even to kill her own brother who really loves her that she's a unique monster who's just as bad as her dad. He's a crazy cult leader, she's a monster arch-criminal

And just reposting this on Skinner Sweet so it doesn't get lost:

Skinner Sweet, however...I hate to say it, but it seems he may well not qualify now. Skinner's a horrible, evil bastard who, among other things, led a band of murderous outlaws in the wild west, poisoned his nemesis's innocent wife, butchered an entire town after becoming a vampire, infects his nemesis with vampirism to degrade him, betrays the good guys, murders others and does a lot of horrible things in general. Including infecting a baby with vampirism just to be a dick

That said, he has several moments...it's implied he may genuinely love his progeny Pearl Jones (and prevents her husband from being infected as a blood slave vampire. The reason is ambiguous. Skinner claims he doesn't love her, but his enemies think otherwise.) when Skinner is forced to fight alongside an old nemesis, she attempts to kill him. Skinner's response is to sadly close his eyes and accept his fate before she's interrupted, whereupon he ends up saving her life. It's entirely possible these are both cases of Pragmatic Villainy but the final instance is most damning

At one point, Skinner meets his elderly ex-girlfriend after discovering she sold him up the river when he was human. Skinner turns the area into a place of burning chaos before heading to kill her, but his girlfriend says she did it to give him the end he wanted, as Skinner couldn't accept the world he loved was going to vanish and it was better for them all to go out together. Skinner, instead of tearing her apart, reconsiders and gently kisses her goodbye before departing, discarding her picture at the end.

Dracula from the same series is a much more solid example

edited 25th Jan '13 12:51:02 PM by Lightysnake

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#7527: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:55:35 PM

[up]Sounds like Skinner should be cut.

The version of Ursa who is listed should be cut. She loves her version of Zod.

Now to Zod—the version who is listed is not the same Zod who is married to Ursa. He's a rogue version of Zod from an Alternate Universe who killed several billion people. That version should stay.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7528: Jan 25th 2013 at 12:58:02 PM

I utterly loathe Skinner and he's a terrible person but yeah...

Like I said, though...Dracula is definitely an example from this series

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#7529: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:01:35 PM

[up]Then list away. I'm all ears.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7530: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:03:02 PM

He's Dracula. You know the one. He's also the vampire equivalent of a racial supremacist. In this universe, he's not Vlad Tepes, and nobody really knows his origin, but he's the origin of the 'Carpathian' vampire strain. He's unique in how he puts his little vampire racial theories into practice. There's Carpathian and then there's every other vampire strain. Every other vampire strain has to be wiped out for no other reason than Drac finding them inferior. Keep in mind if the AV world, this isn't Evil Versus Evil. Barring the Carpathians, we've seen 'good' examples of any other vampire strain that isn't a mindless animal. Many the Carpathians exterminated were actually peaceful breeds who lived alone and didn't harm others.

Then you get into what makes Drac really bad? He was defeated, his armies crushed and he himelf subdued by the humans. He was staked, his throat slit. He was drained of blood and locked in a iron coffin where he was to remain forever. Thing is, his mental powers remain strong. Drac, out of ittle else but sadistic cruelty, really enjoys driving people homicidally insane. He reaches out and forces them to murder one another, kill themselves, or worse their families (one of the story's heroes murdered his wife and young son under Dracula's influence.) When said hero confronts Drac in the present after Drac is strong enough to rise from the coffin just barely, Dracula forces him to see images of his family hacked up.

Easily one of the most evil and sadistic versions of Dracula I an envision, and the worst in the high standard monsters in American Vampire have

Hodor Cleric of Banjo from Westeros Since: Dec, 1969
Cleric of Banjo
#7531: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:04:59 PM

Reading The Other Wiki entry on Moonstone again to refresh my memory, and I think she's a definite cut, assuming the entry is accurate.

While she has committed some very heinous activities (murdering her mother and manipulating her patients into committing suicide- it sounds like she repressed memories of the former at some point), there's also various positive things she's done- about her having a protective relationship toward the Token Good Teammate of the Thunderbolts, Jolt, and details about her battling Zemo with the less evil/reformed members of the original team/doing good with the other team members (sounds like Jolt was her Morality Pet).

It then sounds like (to summarize), she was more on the evil side of things after that original team, but is sort of back on the "good" side on the current Luke Cage team.

If I were to summarize the character, I'd say that Moonstone is a sociopath who is totally focused on achieving her own wants, but that those wants can include "wanting to be respected by others", and can play out in her admiring genuinely good people and experiencing Good Feels Good, and on several occassions, expressed interests in reforming- but in keeping with her selfishness, was seeking a "Get Out of Jail Free" Card and not interested in going to prison for her crimes.

So, basically, Moonstone's overall character makes her more evil than genuinely reformed people like Songbird and Mach-Whatever, but less evil than people like Bullseye, Scorpion, Osborn, or Crossbones, in that her selfish personality combined with some positive impulses means that (unlike them), she sometimes does good things for goodish reasons.

edited 25th Jan '13 1:12:46 PM by Hodor

Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#7532: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:13:11 PM

[up]She really never stood out to me when stacked against Osborn and Bullseye in particular, and yeah, even Crossbones (who has one or two good points) is infinitely worse.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7533: Jan 25th 2013 at 1:18:11 PM

I'll add my voice to cut Moonstone now, then. Awful person, minor good points

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#7534: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:16:57 PM

@7526: Agree with cutting Skinner Sweet based on him showing some redeemable qualities.

@7531: Similar to the above, I agree with cutting Moonstone for showing redeemable qualities and being overshadowed in the realms of heinousness.

Reviewing the Monster.Mega Man series, here are the current entries to vote on:

  • Dr. Weil: Definite keep. He’s one of the worst beings in the series. Naturally his entry needs to be condensed. I’ve provided a rewrite at the bottom for people to vote on.
  • Omega Zero: Is subservient to Weil so everything he does would fall onto Weil’s head, wouldn’t it? Plus he sounds like a literal killing machine, so I question his moral agency. Cut.
  • Gemini: Keep, but the entry needs to be unspoilered and the bit about his anime counterpart should be cut.
  • Tsukasa: Cut. First off, it describes the anime. Second of all, he doesn’t sound too heinous as only one bad deed is listed.
  • Joker: Cut. Fails the heinous standard by a wide margin and is subservient to King. He's a sadist Jerkass while King is an Omnicidal Maniac.
  • King: Keep, but lose the spoilers and some of those unnecessary potholes. Also, the last line is irrelevant.
  • Plant Man: Cut, fails the heinous standard.
  • Dr. Regal: Keep but needs a slight rewrite. I’ll provide one below.
  • Slur: Cut. She’s loyal to her master, Duo, even if she is trying to manipulate him to the "dark side" by killing all humans. So she does have a redeemable quality.
  • Dr. Wily: Cut and move to Monster.Western Animation if he even counts at all.

Here are my proposed rewrites for Dr. Weil and Dr. Regal:

  • Dr. Weil is notable in being one of the most evil beings in the Mega Man series despite only appearing in a few games. Following the peaceful resolution of the Maverick Wars by the sentient superprogram, the Mother Elf, Weil decided that Reploids needed to pay for their crimes. To this end, Weil corrupted Mother Elf by turning her into the Dark Elf, and triggered the Elf Wars. Weil used the Dark Elf and her children, the Baby Elves, to control Reploids and force them to fight each other in massive battles, which resulted in the deaths of 90% of all Reploids and 60% of all humans. Defeated, exiled and transferred into a mechanical body for his crimes, Weil eventually returned one hundred years later, consumed with a thirst for vengeance directed at all life for the perceived crimes against him. Weaseling his way into becoming the supreme ruler of Neo Arcadia, Weil turns it into a dystopian hellhole. When he breaks his citizens to the point where they're desperate enough to risk escaping into the wastelands to form their own colony, Weil decides to obliterate their new home with a Kill Sat. When his Kill Sat is disabled, Weil attempts to drop it upon the colony, killing everyone in the region. Cruel, megalomaniacal and displaying an unprecedented level of sadism in the series, Weil reveled in the suffering of others and desired nothing less than to make human and reploid alike feel like their existences were living deaths.
  • Dr. Regal is a Card-Carrying Villain and the leader of the organization known as Nebula. To prove his belief that Humans Are Bastards, Regal has his organization devoted to converting the world to evil by causing wars and spreading as much misery as possible. He subjects Lan's father to horrifying Cold-Blooded Torture and gleefully turns innocent NetNavis into servants of evil, slowly corrupting the whole Net. His end game is to connect the souls of everyone in the world to Nebula Gray, a program he created from the darkest thoughts of people, and corrupt the entire planet. At the end of the fifth game his father, Lord Wily, the notorious leader of a cyberterrorist organization, pulls an Even Evil Has Standards moment and subjects him to Laser-Guided Amnesia to destroy his evil personality and force him to reform.

edited 27th Jan '13 2:43:53 PM by OccasionalExister

SamuraiSnack Since: Jan, 2013
#7535: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:17:06 PM

The Fairly Odd Parents may be Played for Laughs most of the time, but, Maryanne is not funny at all. We should definitely add her as a Complete Monster. She was responsible for World War One which was a horrible time in Real Life and she killed Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife. I still think she counts. I know she was cut, but we should put her as a Complete Monster example.idea

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#7536: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:26:20 PM

[up]It's black comedy. Ergo, it's still played for laughs.

It's like the teachers eating the students in that Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode, if this wasn't Simpsons, they would qualify.

Also cutting the Youtube Poop examples of Big Bird and Dr Rabbit if there are no objections. (Youtube Poops are parodies and therefore, everything is played for laughs).

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7537: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:28:37 PM

Exister: both entries looking good there, I'd say.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#7538: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:46:49 PM

I didn't see any discussion of these entries show up on the search, so I'm guessing they have yet to be reviewed. Tales series!

Cumore, Ragou, and Alexei: Keep. Entry's a little long though.

Kvar, Rodyle, and Vharley: I'd say cut. The Big Bad arguably is more heinous anyway, and he's a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds. These guys are small potatoes.

Tohma: Racial supremist. Not sure.

Saleh: Cut. The entry fails the heinous standard.

Zilva Madigen: Keep. Since she's the master of these two, she is automatically the most heinous.

Vaclav: I'm not sure. Is genocide common in the Tales series? Because from what I know it's pretty common. This guy doesn't stand out.

Mars: Too minor. Cut.

Barbatos: Keep.

edited 25th Jan '13 3:48:18 PM by Klavice

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7539: Jan 25th 2013 at 3:51:34 PM

For Tohma and Vaclav...gonna say keep. Unique and heinous for their games and the series.

Though I'd keep Kvar and the others

edited 25th Jan '13 3:51:51 PM by Lightysnake

AquaRegia Since: Jun, 2011
#7540: Jan 25th 2013 at 4:23:21 PM

Vharley isn't heinous enough, but Kvar and Rodyle are plenty heinous. Yggdrasil may be the Big Bad, but he personally doesn't go far beyond being a typical Evil Overlord; Kvar and Rodyle both independently go out of their way to do nasty deeds that are much more malicious and cruel than anything Yggdrasil does.

Kvar might have some problems with off-screen villainy, though. It's been a while since I've played that game.

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#7541: Jan 25th 2013 at 4:33:16 PM

@7538: Monster.Tales Series

  • Cumore, Ragou and Alexei: Keep all of them but cut that first line and give them their own entries.
  • Kvar: Keep, but expand. He does run a ranch that experiments on humans, attacks a village, and causes Lloyd's mother to turn into a monster that attacks her son and husband.
  • Rodyle: Keep, but would prefer expansion.
  • Vharley: Cut. Far too small time and with only one notable crime to his name he fails the heinous standard. Plus said crime is similar to something Kvar did earlier to Lloyd's mother.
  • Tohma: Leaning cut. He's a fantastic racist but he apparently willingly spared Hilda's mother since she was a full-blooded Gajuma.
  • Saleh: Neutral. Need more details.
  • Zilva: Agreed that as the master of Tohma and Saleh, she is the most heinous and the one who deserves to be on the list the most.
  • Vaclav: Keep but expand.
  • Solon: Cut. Fails the heinous standard by a wide margin since he just threatens to kill his son's loved ones.
  • Mars: Cut. Dhaos says he affected Mars in some way in order to get Mars to do his bidding. It's ambiguous but there are hints at mind control and his cruelty in game seems inconsistent with his wife and troops still liking and respecting him.
  • Barbatos: Keep. He shows no loyalty to anyone or any cause, he doesn't do anything altruistic, he just wants to be seen as a hero without ever actually acting like one. Cut everything before his name and the last sentence though as they're irrelevant.

EDIT: Here are some proposed rewrites for Kvar and Rodyle.

  • Kvar is a Mad Scientist infamous for being the cruelest of the Desian Grand Cardinals. Utterly heartless and sadistic, Kvar runs a Human Ranch where his prisoners are turned into Exospheres in a process that leaves the party horrified. Discovering that some of his prisoners escaped from the ranch to the village of Luin, Kvar attacks Luin, destroying the village, killing many and capturing the survivors for his experiments. When Lloyd encounters Kvar, the Cardinal brags about how he removed the Exosphere from Lloyd's mother, causing her to turn into a monster and attack her child and her lover, Kratos, which resulted in Kratos killing her to save their son. The depth of Kvar's depravity is such that even his own men are appalled by him.
  • Rodyle is another Desian Grand Cardinal who shares Kvar's penchant for mad science. Taking over Kvar's experiments following his death, Rodyle manages his own Human Ranches and is working to create a superweapon, the Mana Cannon, in order to destroy the Tower of Salvation, overthrow his boss, and become the ruler of two worlds. When the party frees the Ranch's prisoners, Rodyle manages to trap the prisoners again and floods the room they're in, forcing the party to watch. Following his defeat, Rodyle activates the self-destruct sequence of his Human Ranch to make sure the heroes and everyone else in the Ranch dies with him.

edited 27th Jan '13 2:46:40 PM by OccasionalExister

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7542: Jan 25th 2013 at 7:05:49 PM

Alright, I've got rewrites coming for the final DC ones we need. Other than that...I think we're set!

For the Monster.Fire Emblem page...ok, this is gonna sound crazy, but except the Tearring Saga games? We need to rewrite and tighten, but every entry on this list is good. Each is the monster in their own game and nobody is overshadowed. That's impressive and makes our work blessedly simple

edited 25th Jan '13 7:12:37 PM by Lightysnake

TVRulezAgain Since: Sep, 2011
#7543: Jan 25th 2013 at 7:08:01 PM

On The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Griffin's entry is fine, but the rest are mostly bad.

  • Griffin: In the first book, he murders a completely innocent policeman And that's far from the worst thing he does. Why? Because he can do it and get away with it. He gives the reason that he felt a bit chilly and the policeman had a uniform, but throughout the story he seems quite unable to resist the temptation of using his undetectability to do terrible things to people. He's introduced living undected inside a girl's boarding school, where he rapes the girls with impunity because they (and the teacher) believes that he is the "Holy Spirit", even getting several of them pregnant as a result.
  • Fantômas: who Mina describes as more inhuman and frightening than Dracula.
    • On that note, Dracula himself. Apparently bad enough to make Mina feel fine about Hyde.
  • The 'Chinese Doctor': who makes Quatermain weak-kneed with just a look, as he glimpses him calmly torturing a man.
  • Hyde: Subverted, especially in the second book. Hyde is a literal monster and kills with reckless abandon, but he's not crazy or anything.
  • Nemo: too can channel a Complete Monster vibe when he feels like it, although he focuses it solely on his enemies (he is, however, completely horrified when Dr Moreau and the British government reveal and use biological weapons against the Martians, so he has limits).
  • "Jimmy" is a serial rapist and a sexual sadist and also a backstabbing double-agent.
  • The Antichrist is initially presented as such, given that he is shown murdering several students at Hogwarts in his first real appearance. However, his reluctance to live up to his destiny as a monster tones this down a bit. If anything, it truly shows how Oliver Haddo, who corrupted the boy in the first place to be his Antichrist, is the real Complete Monster.

The same thing goes for the entry on the Comic Books page.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7544: Jan 25th 2013 at 7:10:09 PM

Gonna have to clean that up for sure...Griffin can stay. Probably Jimmy as well, given what a scumbag he is.

I haven't read the latest Lo EG stuff yet, though, so I can't comment on the Antichrist.. However, snip Hyde immediately. Remove Fantomas and the C Hinese Doctor/Fu Manchu

OccasionalExister Since: Jul, 2012
#7545: Jan 25th 2013 at 7:43:18 PM

[up][up]League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen:

  • Griffin: Keep. In addition to being a rapist and murderer, he also sells out all of humanity to the Martians to get power for himself.
  • Fantomas: Cut. Relies on You Monster!
  • Chinese Doctor: Cut. Torture isn't that heinous for the setting.
  • Hyde: Cut. He does have love for Mina so he shouldn't count.
  • Nemo: Cut. Has redeemable qualities and an Even Evil Has Standards moment.
  • Jimmy: Cut or expand.
  • The Antichrist: Cut. Doesn't want to destroy the world it seems.
  • Oliver Haddo: He seems to have a better chance at becoming this than the Antichrist, since he's trying to turn him to evil, but unless more details are given, cut.

edited 25th Jan '13 7:43:57 PM by OccasionalExister

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#7546: Jan 25th 2013 at 8:04:40 PM

[up]I'll second this. The stuff about Griffith selling humanity out to the Martians should be added to his entry, as well.

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#7547: Jan 25th 2013 at 8:08:17 PM

Breath of Fire time!

Yuna: Definite keep. Needs to be trimmed a little though.

Rasso: Entry begins with "While nearly as heinous as" probably a cut unless we can get more clarity.

Father Habalk: Keep.

Bosche's Father: Cut. He's an abusive father but not a monster.

Kvar and Rodyle's rewrites look good! [tup]

edited 25th Jan '13 8:11:43 PM by Klavice

lrrose Since: Jul, 2009
#7548: Jan 25th 2013 at 8:12:42 PM

On Tales Series:

Cumore, Ragou and Alexei: All of them are guilty of crimes that are heinous by the standards of the story. I'll see about giving them separate write-ups in the morning (It's late where I'm at), but here are my thoughts on them for now.

  • Cumore works peasants to death just because they are peasants.
  • Ragou feeds children to monsters for entertainment.
  • Alexei commits genocide against the Entelexceia (sp?), a powerful race that protects the world, just so he can acquire the powerful Apatheia that are created when they die. Alexei also tortures one of the main characters to force her to use her power to help him reactivate an ancient superweapon which he plans to use to conquer the world.
    • There are some factors which might count against Alexei's inclusion. First, he seems to consider himself to be working to save the world. It's never really elaborated on though. Second, when his superweapon turns out to not be a superweapon but rather the seal on the Sealed Evil In The Can, Alexei has a My God, What Have I Done? moment. However, instead of working to atone for his sins or at least expressing any kind of remorse, he just rants about how mankind was always doomed. Personally, I don't feel that these factors disqualify Alexei.

Rodyle and Kvar should be kept. The two of them commit the most heinous crimes in the game and have no redeeming features whatsoever. Their entries should be expanded on though. I think that Occaisonal Exiseter's write ups are good.

Vharley is an easy cut. He has no redeeming features, but his crimes are considerably less heinous than those of Rodyle or Kvar.

I'm not familiar with Tales of Rebirth, but if Tohma has some good qualities, he should be cut.

Saleh's entry doesn't state what he does that is so bad.

Zilva seems fine as it is.

Vaclav is an easy keep. For the record, not only does he perform genocide against the Orerines people, he also is implied to have performed Mengele-esque experiments on them (this is never shown on screen, but you do visit the place where he did it). He is never shown having any good qualities at all. I'll probably do a write up for him tomorrow.

Solon is nasty, but his crimes (he's an assassin who put a child through Training from Hell so he could become his protege and then threatens to kill said protege's friends if he doesn't rejoin him)

If Mars' actions were committed while he was brainwashed, he shouldn't count.

Barbatos: Cut the last line for being irrelevant. Other than that, I think its fine.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#7549: Jan 26th 2013 at 4:18:11 AM

General question: So it was said that Carter's not the worst Family Guy has to offer, and the Frenchmen aren't as bad as Mr. Burns...does one complete monster have to be as bad as another??

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#7550: Jan 26th 2013 at 7:02:07 AM

They can be different kinds of evil (the world-destroying megalomaniac and the psychotic serial rapist/cannibal, for instance), but they do have to be amongst the worst the series has to offer in their own special way. A Complete Monster cannot be overshadowed.

edited 26th Jan '13 7:02:51 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?

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