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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#75002: Jan 6th 2017 at 5:59:02 PM

Alright, I think that's 8[tup] and 1[tdown] for Adler.

From what I looked up, Adler was rejected because he wasn't heinous enough, which I disagree with a lot. I know it can be frustrating to have certain villains constantly brought up. Castor Troy is one such villain and Grant Ward had this rep for a while. I am sorry, but I wanted to bring my own perspective on Wild Force and Adler to the discussion.

I also wanna know who this Uncharted villain is. I've beaten all the games and I dunno who we're talking about.

edited 6th Jan '17 5:59:18 PM by PolarPhantom

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#75005: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:11:54 PM

@75002

Grant Ward is a no-go, I don't see how people constantly bring him up. I've only seen this discussed a few times and mostly it's Hive that was constantly brought up. And the few people that actually believe that Ward fits this trope usually have a specific agenda in mind we shouldn't really discuss here.

@75004

Yeah, so if this is the person being referred to was Henry Avery there better be a good enough reason.

edited 6th Jan '17 6:13:52 PM by xie323

PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#75006: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:18:32 PM

[up][up]Really?

I mean, looking back I guess I can see where they were coming from, but I didn't think of him that way as I was playing. A bastard by the end, yes, but not a candidate.

Man, Naughty Dog did a great job with their storytelling there. I'm just gushing now, so I'll stop.

[up]I saw him brought up during Season 2 wrapping up. He still didn't count. I thought Hive might count until the end of Season 3 cemented his position.

Another person who gets brought up every now and then is Ghetsis.

I've never played any Pokemon game. So I have nothing to say.

[down]...wait.

George Washington? As in, first President of the United States George Washington?

edited 6th Jan '17 6:23:32 PM by PolarPhantom

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#75007: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:22:02 PM

Yeah, if Avery appeared in a flashback, we'd be good.

I may propose George Washington from Masters of Horror, admittedly.

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
PolarPhantom Since: Jun, 2012
#75009: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:32:45 PM

I was checking the page, and I don't think Onikage from Tenchu received a write up, yet. I'm pretty sure we unanimously green lit him. Just bringing it up in case people forgot or there's some problem I overlooked. I mean, I have no experience with Tenchu, so I wouldn't want to do it.

I think that's 10[tup] to 1[tdown] for Dr Viktorg. HAH.

edited 6th Jan '17 6:33:34 PM by PolarPhantom

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#75010: Jan 6th 2017 at 6:59:14 PM

I know now that Troy wasn't really worth considering. I'll admit that even though I remembered his brother, I forgot that he actually loved him.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#75011: Jan 6th 2017 at 7:02:12 PM

Eh, it happens, don't worry. You've been doing a fine job otherwise. I can vouch for the others you've posted, at least.

Though I will say someone sent me a trailer that means we're probably gonna need to rework Art's entry sometime in 2017 since he's getting his own film

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#75012: Jan 6th 2017 at 7:07:41 PM

Why, thank you :) Always appreciate compliments.

And yeah, I've actually been thinking the same thing, about Art, that is. Though from what I've heard, he's probably gonna be just as bad (if not worse) as he was in AHE.

edited 6th Jan '17 7:15:00 PM by Stellarvore

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#75013: Jan 6th 2017 at 7:25:24 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong, I doubt he's going off the list. He's absolutely just going to need a reworked/expanded entry to take the movie.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#75014: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:01:03 PM

This is unrelated to any discussion but considering that Krennic got in here moreso due to his actions in the prequel novel and not really the film itself, what are some villains that didn't make the cut for this trope but could have qualified had more of their backstories been revealed?

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#75015: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:41:01 PM

[up] Overwatch's Reaper seems like the kind of guy who'd qualify if we had a lot more lore to work with, same with Lorenzo Medici from Skullgirls.

xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#75016: Jan 6th 2017 at 8:52:03 PM

Freedon Nadd from the old Tales of the Jedi comics, and maybe Admiral Delaz from Gundam 0083 are two characters that maybe could make the cut if we got more backstory.

edited 6th Jan '17 8:52:33 PM by xie323

DuelMark Since: Mar, 2011
#75017: Jan 6th 2017 at 9:14:23 PM

[tup]Adler

I always felt Master Org deserved this trope. A character who proves even Power Rangers isn't immune to humans becoming pure evil. Also, I side with Polar Phantom's write up because that WAS Adler. In the penultimate episode, it's clear from his interactions with Shayla that it's still the same guy, outright admitting he doesn't want to redeem himself.

Edit: Also a suggestion for the write-up. He also had his servant Onikage trick Toxica into getting herself killed.

edited 6th Jan '17 9:30:52 PM by DuelMark

"Sam Manson is a terrible character."
G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#75018: Jan 6th 2017 at 9:17:29 PM

Yeah so are we just talking about Adler or also Master Org?

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#75019: Jan 6th 2017 at 9:54:41 PM

Ok here we go. Comments are appreciated.

RuneScape: Sliske, the serpent-tongued, is a Mahjarrat defined by entertaining himself by spreading chaos and misfortune as is sole motivation for existence. Born from the dreams of the stillborn Elder God Mah like his kindred, Sliske proved to be a master manipulator at a young age when he murdered the younger brother of his friend Azzanadra and blamed it on the Mahkorrat tribe, who were wiped out by the Mahjarrat in retaliation. Even after coming to Gielinor in the 2nd Age, Sliske entertained himself by turning his people from Icthlarin to Zaros and by creating theater shows performed by People Puppets while he served as the head of the Secret Police for the Zarosian Empire. He also loved playing the eponymous role in Deal with the Devil by twisting the wishes of people such as the Barrows Brothers, Gregorovic, and Linza by making them his undead slaves. His evil reached its peak in the 6th Age when he murdered Guthix and tried to incite new God Wars by using the Stone of Jas as a prize for the returning younger Gods. He also sought to make life a living hell for the Adventurer by constantly trying to turn them into a wight and torturing those they cared about when he failed. Ultimately, his master plan involved having the Gods escalate their conflict to throughout the universe and eventually awaken the Elder Gods to wipe away all mortal life because he found current existence too boring his taste. Proving to be the most evil and dangerous of all the Mahjarrat, Sliske was the worst nightmare to ever come from the warped mind of the dying Mah.

edited 6th Jan '17 10:06:50 PM by LoreDeluxe

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#75020: Jan 6th 2017 at 10:05:10 PM

Here's a question for everyone since we're on the topic. Which of these quotes do you think would be better for RuneScape: the current one regarding Bandos or this one about Sliske's plan and motivations?

Seren: A war, Sliske, it would wake them. You must know that the elder gods sleep below us and you know what will happen if they wake!

Sliske: Of course I know! Why do you think I've orchestrated all of this? I want them to wake and I want Gielinor to be torn apart in the process!

Seren: But why could you possibly want that? It's madness!

Sliske: Because this world is the lock that holds the rest of the universe together. I've been to countless worlds, but this one is the very keystone of creation. When this world falls, finally the other worlds will wake up and take notice. They'll fall into a free fall against one another. They'll all finally stop being boring. I have lived thousands of years and in that time I have watched everyone just repeat the same cycles again and again. It's as if all sentient life were devoid of creativity. It is so unfathomably tedious. But no one seems to have noticed it but me. They're all so obsessed with their little schemes, unaware that they're locked in a rut. But when war breaks out amongst the gods, without Gielinor, it will span across the whole of creation. Zamorak will unleash his demonic hordes, who will swarm across the worlds tearing them apart. Saradomin will be forced to return to Teragard and bring their twisted science into the conflict, changing the face of the war, quite literally in some cases. Even 'peaceful Armadyl' will find himself forced to break his oaths and unleash terrible destruction...again. Doesn't it sound wonderful! No more stagnation. No more tedium. We'll see an end to the gods and the whole universe will be changed by it.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#75021: Jan 6th 2017 at 10:56:12 PM

I'll give a tentative 'Yes' to Adler.

Anywho, here's Dr. X in all his hammy glory:

  • Action Man: From the 2000 CGI series, Dr. X is the mastermind behind all the evil in the series, committing all his crimes in the name of evolving humanity into perfection for him to control. Before initiating his more monstrous actions, X, requiring a new body for himself, kidnaps a young man named Brendan Caine, subjects him to torturous experiments that turn him into a super soldier, then transplants his own mind to Caine's body. X then becomes free to spread his influence worldwide, and immediately forms his Council of Doom, after which he begins various attempts to "test" humanity to determine which of them is most suitable to become part of his "Neo Humanity". These so-called tests range from trying to start a nuclear holocaust and flash freezing the entire planet, to infecting millions with a virus he hopes will lead to them ripping each other apart, leaving only the survivors for him to horrifically transform into his personal super soldiers. Showing numerous times that any well-intentioned claims are utter hypocrisy, not only does X regularly attempt to kill hundreds of innocents out of nothing but spite toward his Arch-Enemy, Action Man, but X's plans to "improve" humanity always amount to simply replicating his own mind onto everyone else. In the finale of the series, X finally loses whatever sense of reason he had when he decides to drag an asteroid to crash into the Earth and wipe out everything, including his own Council of Doom, then just rebuild humanity from scratch with himself as the base reference. A complete and total psychopath unable to comprehend the fact that imperfections are what makes humanity special, Dr. X was so convinced of his own godlike infallibility that he failed to realize just how maniacal and petty his goals were.

edited 6th Jan '17 11:00:08 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#75022: Jan 6th 2017 at 11:09:05 PM

I've been wondering: We typically don't count characters who are Made of Evil as a CM, but would it be possible for Ganondorf (a manifestation of Demise's hatred and anger) to be an exception considering how one of his incarnations has sympathetic qualities, showing moral agency?

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#75023: Jan 6th 2017 at 11:56:47 PM

I dunno about Ganondorf. That whole timeline seems a bit...screwy.
LD, PP, Ravok: You know what to do.
LD: I like Bandos's quote better, but that quote can go to the quote page easily. Incidentally, where on RuneScape should Sliske go?

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#75024: Jan 6th 2017 at 11:59:05 PM

Just found this entry under One Tree Hill.

  • Complete Monster: Xavier 'X' Daniels. In the first two episodes of Season 6, he assaults Brooke & kills Q in cold blood, before he finally gets arrested after kidnapping Brooke's foster daughter Sam. However, because there was nothing concrete to tie him to Q's murder, he gets released from prison in Season 9, and promptly starts stalking Brooke & Julian. What truly qualifies him for this trope is that unlike every other villain on the show, Xavier isn't motivated by greed or a freudian excuse - he does all of his crimes simply because he's a sadistic bastard.

Why so serious?
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009

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