During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I alsmost finished my EP about The Exorcist. I just have to warn you that there will be major spoilers about the Mid-Season Twist.
The Jojo's Bizarre Adventure page could do with an image. What did people think of this one?
Another thing Vagrant Story shares a verse with Final Fantasy Tactics, so should Guildenstern's entry go on the FF page? In any case, I'd like to fix the entry so it doesn't redundantly say of Vagrant Story''".
With the recent additions of Ikutsuki and Airy, I was wondering: how many examples are there of a game's Mission Control, mentor etc. (whoever makes the player characters do things) being a CM? Frank Fontaine comes to mind.
edited 30th Dec '16 5:29:50 AM by BigglesTh9
Warning huge spoilers ahead
What’s the work?
The Exorcist is a Religious Horror series adapted from the 1973 film.
Angela Rance, a housewife in Chicago, suspects her daughter Katherine to be possessed by a demon. She seeks help from Father Tomas Ortega who's a bit skeptical at first. He's joined with retired exorcist Father Marcus Kane. It turns out that Angela was half right. There's really a demonic possession but it's her other daughter Casey who's possessed.
Halfway the first season we learn that the series is in fact a Stealth Sequel to the first movie: Angela Rance is actually Regan Macneil who changed her name in order to escape her mom and her past.
The show has also a second storyline involving the Friars of Ascension which I elaborate in the Heiniousness section.
Who is he?
The demon possessing Casey Rance credited as “The Salesman”. Halfway the series, we find out that the Salesman is actually good old Pazuzu who wants to take revenge on Regan by targeting her daughter then forcing Regan to let him take possession of her.
What does he do?
I briefly recap the 1973 film since it's canon to the show: Plotting his revenge against Father Lankester Merrin who exorcized him out of a boy, Pazuzu takes possession of 12-year-old Regan Macneil initially posing as the friendly ghost "Captain Howdy". Pazuzu kills Burke Dennings by twisting his head, assaults Regan's mother Chris, causes a heart attack to Father Merrin and attempts to strangle Regan after taking possession of Father Damien Karras. Karras kills himself in order to prevent him to do so.
Now the series shows 12-years-old Regan's first meeting with "Captain Howdy" in her basement. After introducing himself through the Ouija board, Pazuzu gave Regan orgasm. That's right, that demon is a rapist and a pedophile.
The series totally ignores Exorcist II: The Heretic and instead after the events of the film, Chris MacNeil used her daughter's possession for money and publicity. Regan in order to escape her mother and her past changed her name to Angela. Years later she married Henry Rance and they had two daughters: Katherine and Casey.
40 years later, Pazuzu plots his revenge against Regan. Before the first episode, a mysterious salesman gave Casey a compact and appears to her everytime she wants to. He manipulates her playing with her insecurities and her jealousy of her sister Kat.
When Casey's sister Kat and her girlfriend Julia were driving, the salesman causes the car to crash which costs the life of Julia and Kat suffering Survivor Guilt.
Episode 1: A flashback shows Father Marcus failing to exorcise the boy Gabriel and the demon called "The Baptist" killing him with a Neck Snap.
Father Tomas finds out Casey is possessed when he sees her in the attic killing a rat with her power.
Episode 2: While playing Lacross, Casey mentally breaks the leg of another player. Angela secretly pour holy water in her drink that causes Casey to vomit her green soup (Mythology Gag)… and a living centipede.
Episode 3: Tomas and Marcus invite Casey and films her in order to record proof of her possession and receive the Church approval for an exorcism. The Salesman taunts Marcus about the boy he failed to save. He says that he never felt more alive than when Gabriel died in front of Marcus. The Salesman denies being the Baptist but claims he appreciate his "work".
While on a train with her father, a guy sexually harasses Casey. The salesman appears and kisses the girl. Casey under the demon's control gives a Groin Attack on the bully, ejects him on the floor, scraps his chest with her nails and disclocates his mouh. Casey stops attacking the guys and suddenly urinates on the floor (another Mythology Gag). The guy survives and Casey is taken to the hospital.
Episode 4: The salesman inflicts a nightmare to Casey for being "ungrateful" and refusing to surrender entirely to him. In that nightmare she see her mother cooking an omelet with living chicks and her father playing favorite with her eldest sister. The salesman slaps Casey and knocks her to the ground, where she is being held down by some sort of veins or webs. The poor girl wakes up screaming in her hospital room.
When a nurse gives her an injection, the salesman appears yet again to taunt her. Now knowing he has no good intention, Casey still refuses to give herself to him and he then burns her arm. He keeps tormenting her again and again. During an operation, he sit on her chest and tells her "Unconditional love. It's right there on the other side of the door. But you keep staring through the people as if you don't deserve it. I have a sledgehammer in my pocket. I will lift it up and bring it down... again and again... and again. Just you wait."
He gives her a vision where a spider comes out of her nostril. After that, he strangles the nurse with her cross pendant to force Casey to say "yes" in exchange for the nurse's life. Casey surrenders and the salesman takes full possession of Casey.
Meanwhile, Tomas and Marcus decide to perform the exorcism without the agreement of the church and have Casey chained in a room.
Episode 5: the salesman does everything he can to destabilize Tomas and Marcus during the exorcism. He takes the voices of Tomas' deceased grandmother and later takes the appearance of his lover Jessica.
Using the voice of Casey, the salesman convinces Kat that the priests are torturing her. Kat calls the cops who arrest Marcus and seizes Casey. The ambulance suddenly crashes and Casey kills the EM Ts before running away.
Meanwhile, Angela reveals to Tomas that she is Regan Macneil and at the same time Chris come to their home in order to reconcile with her daughter.
Episode 6: The disappearance of actress Chris Mac Neil's granddaughter gets lot of media attention. Marcus reveals the importance of finding Casey soon: when a demon possesses someone long enough, it merges with their soul and exorcism becomes impossible. Pazuzu inflicts a nightmare to Regan/Angela where she sees her daughter standing yet horribly mutilated and her face full of worms.
Father Marcus finds Casey in a tunnel full of possessed folks. He finds her crab-walking to the exist (another Mythology Gag take a sip). He finds her again in the shallows of Lake Michigan feasting on a swan. He nearly drowns her but she briefly regains consciousness and begs him to help.
Episode 7: Marcus brings Casey to a coven of nuns specialists in exorcism. Despite all their combined efforts, the demon still refuse to leave his vessel. The situation gets so bad that the Mother superior Bernadette and Marcus are arguing about whether continuing the exorcism or Mercy Kill Casey before Pazuzu permanently integrates her. At the end of the episode, Father Tomas reluctantly brings Regan, Chris, Kat and Henry to the Coven and let her see her daughter.
Episode 8: Pazuzu gives a Hannibal Lecture to Kat and Henry shaming the former for her car accident that costs the life of her girlfriend and the latter for his accident where a scalding fell down on him. Then…
- Regan: Get the hell out of my child!
Pazuzu: Hell? Do you know what Hell is, Regan? It's where Casey is right now. In a room with no windows, nailed to the floor, surrounded by nothing. Alone forever. Knowing it was her mother who put here there. But don't worry. There's room for you, too.
Pazuzu then shows Regan a vision of their first meeting as I described above. He says that giving her orgasm is his favorite memory of her. Regan asks him why he choose her to which he simply responds "because you were under my foot, you stupid bitch" then mocks her for thinking she was special. Regan begs him to leave her family alone. Obviously he refuses and adds that he "missed her taste" and licks her face.
Back to the real world, Regan sees Casey tormented by Pazuzu. He threatens to Neck Snap her. Regan finally accepts to let him possess her instead. Clueless about the whole thing and thinking the exorcism worked, the coven and the priests let the Rance Familly return to their home. There Pazuzu's first act is to kill Chris by snapping her head then toss her in the stairs like he did with Burke 40 years ago.
Episode 9: Pazuzu meets the Friars of Ascension (a Satanist cult who plans to kill the Pope). The leader recognizes the demon [note] this is the only scene where Pazuzu's name is uttered. [/note] and claims he waited long for his coming. Unimpressed, Pazuzu forces everyone to bow and the leader to kiss his shoes. He also mocks member Maria Walters who wants badly to be possessed by a demon but is always denied. A very satisfying Kick The Son Of A Bitch.
After that, he confronts Mother Bernadette in her coven and kills her along with the other nuns.
Back at home, Pazuzu playfully strangles Regan's husband Henry but does not kill him.
Casey notices that something is wrong with her mother's attitude lately especially with the fact that she's cheerful after Chris death. She correctly deduces that she's now possessed and tries to leaves the house in the morning with Kat and their father while Regan sleeps. Unfortunately, Pazuzu catch them and bring them to the living room. He explains that he's now permanently integrated with Regan and they have no hope to exorcise him. Casey asks him what he want so he gives his Motive Rant (see Freudian Excuse below). Pazuzu tortures Kat and Henry for "misbehaving". At this moment, Tomas breaks into the house.
Episode 10: Pazuzu taunts Tomas with the fact that he's now integrated with Regan. He knocks him out with one blast and put a knife in his hand Tomas has a vision designed to goad him into suicide where he wakes up in the house he lived with his grandmother when he was a child. He meets an illusion of Marcus who tries to convinces him to kill himself by listing all of his failures (his pride, his ambition, his affair with a married woman, his inability to protect the Rance family…). It almost works until Tomas remembers that suicide is a mortal sin and committing it would condemn his soul to hell. After giving a I Am What I Am speech to Fake!Marcus, he breaks the illusion and wakes up stronger than ever.
In parallel with the event above, Pazuzu tries to psychically torture Kat once again but fails. That because Regan's isn't actually fully integrated yet and is still Fighting from the Inside! In her mental word, Regan is confronted to Pazuzu who let her hearing her family suffering to convince her to fully surrender to him.
Pazuzu spins a hammer on the table and it points at Kat. He forces Casey to grab the hammer and orders her to strike her sister in the knee as hard as she can and threatens to tears off Henry's arms if she refuses. Henry is willing to die but Kat begs Casey to do it. Casey still can't bring herself to do it so Kat grabs the hammer and smashes her knee herself. Pazuzu laugh in delight.
Finally, that sick bastard gets bored and simply proceeds to kill Casey right there starting by jabbing his thumb in her eye. At this moment, Tomas wakes up, yells "The Power of Christ Compels You!!" and has the demon Blown Across the Room. Casey, Kat and Henry joins Tomas in the exorcism. Meanwhile in her mental world, Regan beats the crap out of the salesman. In his last moment, Pazuzu attempts to take Regan with him by snapping her spine. Fortunately, Regan survives and is now wheelchair bound.
The season ends with the Rance family moving to the country in order to heal from their suffering
Let's hear his Motive Rant from episode 9:
- Casey: Why do you keep hurting us? What do you even want?
Pazuzu: The only thing that we've ever wanted: that which is rightfully ours. We were His first creations. Did you know that? We were loyal and perfect in every way. And do you know what God did? God got bored. He got bored with our perfection. So He created Man, mortal and ugly, and... and then He built them a sandbox, and He filled it with tangible and sensual delights. Delights that we could never feel or taste or experience. He created paradise, and he handed it over to a pack of primates rutting in the dirt. Well, this world was meant for us. And we're gonna take it back.
In short, he's Driven by Envy because he thinks God treats humans better. That doesn't make him sympathetic. Mother Bernadette, Defiant to the End, rightfully calls him "just a child throwing a tantrum". PASS
Mitigating Factors
None. His initial "friendship" with Casey is obviously just a way to manipulates her because his plan is to fully merge with her mother which Casey never wanted. He accepts to spare Casey in exchange for Regan's body but that's just because he wants to physically and mentally torture the poor girl along with the eldest daughter and Regan's husband. And they probably would have all die without the intervention of Tomas.
Demons in this series are explicitly identified as angels who willingly turn against god. I think this solves the moral agency question.
Heiniousness
Hell Yes! He's far worse than he was in the original film. As for the series itself, the other demons don't have enough screen time to qualify and the other villains are the Friars of Ascension. They are a Satanist cult worshipping demons whose members are priests and church supporters. They want to be possessed by demons and plan to murder the Pope Sebastian when he'll come in Chicago. In order to summon the demons, they commit mass murders, harvest the organs of the victims and perform the summoning ritual "Vocare Pulvare" with the ashes. That being said, I don't feel the need to make a EP for them because a) they act as a group and none really stands out b) they have far more resources than Pazuzu c) their story arc isn't over yet and Maria Walters becoming the Dragon Ascendant seems to be the Sequel Hook for the second season…if the series is renewed that is. I could try to make a EP for the leader Simon who died in the finale if you really insist.
Verdict
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJbmB9k2Y88
edited 30th Dec '16 6:13:12 AM by Silverblade2
As for the JJBA image, it was not approved
.
Here's what's pending (I'll HOPEFULLY touch up the Mortal Kombat ones tomorrow):
- Onikage (Lightysnake)
- Andrew "Drew" Stephens, real name Robert Fobray, from Take You Apart (Ravok)
- The General (Ravok)
- Percival C. McLeach rewrite (Ambar)
- Adam Hart from The Power (1968) (MGD107)
- Pazuzu (Silverblade2)
edited 30th Dec '16 7:42:13 AM by ACW
I'm getting some Eredin vibes from Krennic in that I feel in the movie itself he dosent really do much to stand out, but he is a much more heinous character once the backstory in catalyst is concerned
As for Tarkin, maybe just add two sentences about him sanctioning the testing the Death Star on Jeddah and firing on Scarif despite his men still being on there.
Also I will be getting the effortpost for Kycilia Zabi in the Origins manga up soon as well.
Yes for Pazuzu.
Now for Krennic.
Who Is He?
Orson Krennic, the Empire's Advanced Weapons Research Director, is an ambitious, greedy and heartless man whose only interest is rising in the Empire's hierarchy. Founder of the Death Troopers, and initially in charge of the Death Star project, Krennic was once a young member of the Republic Corps of Engineers where he met and befriended a young scientist named Galen Erso- a genius. Krennic became involved in weapons development, where he first gained the idea for the Death Star...and wanted to involve his genius friend Galen Erso.
What's HE Done?
As a Republic officer, Krennic actually committed war crimes. In one scene, Krennic orders his cruiser to open fire and destroy a harmless, civilian city. Why? Their planet was aligned with the Separatists, absolutely horrifying the Ersos. Krennic spends the remainder of the war trying to get his dream weapon developed, and when the war ends, Krennic enthusiastically joins the Galactic Empire, continuing his work. Now, Krennic then Krennic hires a man named Has Obitt and his smugglers to drop decommissioned weapons to the planets Samovar and Wadi Raffa. The weapon drops are a ruse for the Empire to enter on the pretext of suspected anarchist activity....you can guess how THAT goes.
Krennic's research team, wary of what he's really planning, finally requests to be released from the project. Krennic agrees to do so. but instead kills them all, destroying their facility on Hypori with turbolaser blasts from his Star Destroyer, and killing everyone there. Not long after, the Ersos escape, causing Krennic's demotion.
In the opening scene of Rogue One, Krennic tracks down the Ersos and eventually has Galen's wife Lyra shot when she refuses to back down on holding him at gunpoint. Galen is pressed into service and their daughter Jyn manages to remain free. Years later, the Death Star would be completed. When they received word of...disturbance on the planet Jedha, Krennic discovers his hated rival W Ilhuff Tarkin has assumed control over the Death Star. Krennic orders Jedha destroyed, but Tarkin sneers at the complete overuse of force, instead Krennic has the city of Ni Jedha blasted, annihilating it and everyone therein, including the rebel cell of Saw Gerrera nearby. Krennic's reaction? "Oh...it's beautiful."
Returning to the world of Eadu when he learns someone in the engineer corps has betrayed him, Krennic prepares to order the entire team of engineers under Galen shot when Galen, to save them, confesses he was the leak. Krennic listens...and then orders them shot anyways to break Galen. Eadu is then attacked and Galen killed in the crossfire while Krennic escapes. To get the Death Star plans (And the flaw Galen built into the station), Jyn and her comrades go to the world of Scarif where Imperial records are kept, Krennic in pursuit. rennic attempts to kill them befores he's shot by Jyn's comrade Cassio....Tarkin then arrives and to get a final "Screw you" to his rival and kill everyone down there, fires the Death Star on the Imperial Base. The last thing Krennic sees is his own battle station looming overhead, the blast vaporizing him when it goes through the platform he's own.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. Krennic is a toady and a genuine sociopath with delusions of his own importance who attaches himself to people around him. His friendship with Galen was once apparently genuine, but he shows no remorse at the man's death, or tormenting him mentally. For rennic, everyone is a means to an end and when he doesn't HAVE to be nice, he won't be. He doesn't seem to have any human connection whatsoever outside of this.
Heinous Standard?
In the movie, Krennic's only crimes are Jedha and the engineer thing. The novel expands on that, with two instances of mass slaughter of civilians, engineering a proxy war to brutally crush for the glory involved and he actually wanted to blow up Jedha before Tarkin ended up reducing the scale of the attack as they wanted a "statement, not a manifesto" (presumably he wanted that manifesto by the time we got to Alderaan).
In the new timeline...well, there's not much to really go with on heinousness, Krennic's level of MASS murder stands above most of the crowd so far, and he's not a Sith Lord but just a guy who's...not low level, but constrained by a lot of bureacracy and red tape and Tarkin continuously snatching away his command. So, I have to leave it to you guys.
Conclusion?
I give Krennic a tentative yes for Catalyst right now. What say we?
"So Pazuzu gets beaten to death by a human (Regan), and yet said human survives getting her spine snapped?"
Both events happen at the same time. Regan's fight with Pazuzu occurs in her "mental world" while Tomas performs the exorcism in the real world.
Anyway yesterday I pull those unapproved entries and PM the troper.
- Complete Monster: As in the original source material, Pazuzu falls straight into this once again. Possessing Casey Rance, the daughter of his former host, the demon decides to desecrate her credibility as a human being throughout his duration of being inside her, body and soul. And once he does leave her, it was only because he had all along wanted to return to Angela, aka Regan. While repossessing Regan, he does a lot of damage to the Rance family, temporarily breaking them until he is finally destroyed by the combined might of Tomas, the Rances, and the tiny piece of Regan that survived the supposed "integration", undoing him once and for all. Despite his demise, Pazuzu remains one of the most sinister beings in the show.
- The Friars of Ascension count as this too. Disguising themselves as priests or supporters of church organizations, they in secret plan to summon a legion of demonic spirits, and once that's completed, kill the Pope as well. Simon stands out in the ensemble, as he openly mocks how dressing like a priest makes everyone believe that he truly is one, spitting on religion itself.
The first one is Pazuzu but it could be better. The second one is listing a group which is against the rules.
edited 30th Dec '16 12:05:31 PM by Silverblade2
Tentative
to Krennic. I thought maybe Tarkin out heinoused him at first, but he's probably bad enough to stand on his own. I was thinking about saying no, but his actions in Catalyst made up my mind about saying yes. Also, there's Jyn running away as a kid and him telling the Stormtroopers: "They have a child. Find it." It? Wow.

General.
Why so serious?