TVTropes Now available in the app store!
Open

Follow TV Tropes

Following

Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Go To

During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#71176: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:14:22 PM

[up][up][up] I don't think it really matters at this point. All the Zamasus have the same kind of personality, endgame, and generally don't stand out from one another. So when I make the effort post I am just going to make it for all of them in general.

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#71177: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:19:54 PM

[tup] To Raem and Hyperion.

Anyway, here are some write ups I have been meaning to do;

  • Captain America: Baron Heinrich Zemo was an German nobleman who joined the Nazi party after Germany lost World War 1. During World War 2, Heinrich committed several war crimes: strangling a Polish Freedom Fighter named Citizen V to death, testing a death ray on a concentration camp inmate. He also captured and flayed the Original Human Torch, recreating the Torch's power to help the Nazis win the war and used the Torch's powers to incinerate one of his own Nazi minions, just for kicks. Zemo also built a death ray and when Nick Fury and his Howling Commandos tried to capture it, Zemo rigged it to explode, destroying a nearby German town. Zemo was once a loving father and husband, but a fight with Captain America left him disfigured and he was consumed with hatred for Captain America and started beating his son and wife. Zemo even tried to shoot through his son Helmut to kill Captain America at one point and was willing to kill his wife when she opposed him. Near the end of the war, Zemo tried to steal an experimental plane in England and rigged it exploded, seemingly killing Bucky and trapping Cap in suspended animation. After the war Zemo fled to South America, hired a band of mercs and enslaved a remote South American native tribe. One day when the tribe rebelled, Zemo violently put down the rebellion and had all the ring leaders of the rebellion killed. When Captain America returned in modern times, Zemo enacted several revenge schemes, including creating Wonder Man in order to infiltrate the Avengers and stating that his powers will destroy him if Zemo doesn't give him an injection every week. He also kidnapped Cap's young friend Rick Jones and stuck him in a trap designed so Captain America would kill him if he tried to free him.

  • Lady Death: In the animated movie based on this comic, Lucifer comes to Earth in human form under the name Mathias. Mathias establishes himself as a feudal lord in 15th century Sweden. Mathias is forcing villagers to join his army (including a young boy), saying he needs souls to fight for God. Mathias sees his daughter Hope meeting her boyfriend Niccolo and impresses Niccolo into his army and confines his daughter to his castle. Hope soon discovers her father has murdered those he impressed into his service. Mathias opening a portal to Hell and pours several innocent souls (including Niccolo) into Hell to be tormented. As Mathias reveals his true form to his daughter, an angry mob bursts in, angry over Mathias treatment of the people. Lucifer kills everyone present except for his daughter and a priest who was leading the mob. The priest condemns Hope to death and plans to burn her at the stake. Lucifer sends a minion to taunt Hope, saying she can be with Niccolo, if she offers a prayer to Lucifer. Hope refuses at first, but relents and says the prayer as she is being burnt to death. Her soul descends to Hell and demons begin to torture her. The demons eventually take Hope to her father, where Lucifer wants Hope to become his minion and plans to torture the souls of Niccolo and her mother if she refuses. Hope refuses and Lucifer kicks her out a window. Hope meets Cremator in Hell, Lucifer's former blacksmith who was killed by Lucifer in life and was dragged to Hell by Lucifer. Through her training Hope becomes Lady Death and leads several lost souls in a rebellion against Lucifer.

  • The Deliberate Stranger: In this TV mini series, Ted Bundy, who is a seemingly nice, handsome man, is really a manipulative Serial Killer. In Seattle, Bundy grabs a woman off the street and kills her. Bundy later goes to the beach and lures a woman to his car and kidnaps another woman at the beach and kills them. Bundy goes to Salt Lake City to pursue a law degree and picks a female hitch hiker and murders her. Bundy also stalks an a high school student and kills her. Bundy then goes to a ski lodge in Colorado and ends up kidnapping and killing a random woman. Bundy pretends to be a cop and tries to lure another woman into his car, where he tries to murder her, but she escapes. The police eventually capture Bundy and build a case against him. Bundy escapes from prison and escapes to Florida. There Bundy goes on a killing spree, going to a Sorority and murdering four women there. Bundy also kidnaps and murders a 12 year old girl. Bundy is soon recaptured and put on Death Row.

I am not sure where the Deliberate Stranger should be, should it go the TV section?

This a good picture of Zemo:

[1]

edited 3rd Nov '16 8:56:45 PM by Overlord

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#71178: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:25:51 PM

@Fried Warthog: I'd say there's a rather humorous explanation for said Adaptational Villainy; I mentioned WAY back when I first proposed Nighthawk that the entire Squadron in the series is a huge Justice League Expy.

The lone female is a warrior princess, there's a fast-talking and quip-filled speedster, there'd a guy who can create constructs with his mind, and, of course, Nighthawk and Hyperion. Now....5 Expies of DC, Marvel's competition, heroes, showing up in a Marvel series. Think about that, then question whether it's REALLY that weird that they were turned into such a bunch of monstrous asshats. XD

Anywho, Glad that Hyperion seems to be a Keep. Oh, and just in case anyone checked his character tropes, a couple of which seemingly say he has "standards", these are thoroughly subverted and/or disproved by following episodes, so yeah.

And up next for my Marvel Animation baddies, we have the main villain of the latest Marvel animated film endeavor, Hulk: Where Monsters Dwell.

Who is he?

Nightmare is the Big Bad of Hulk: Where Monsters Dwell. A resident of the Dream Dimension, Nightmare is a demonic being who regularly tries to escape into the Waking World (Our world).

Now, normally Nightmare's powers aren't strong enough to pull anything major, but on Halloween, when the barrier between worlds is weakest, Nightmare makes his move.

Fun fact: Mark Hamill voiced Nightmare in a couple of eps. of Western Animation/Ultimate Spider-Man, and while not the case here, the VA for Nightmare in this film is doing his best at a Mark Hamill impression, and, to his credit, does a fairly good job at it.

What has he done?

Nightmare kicks the film off by afflicting 4 young teens with horrifying nightmares of their greatest fears, and, once they are sufficiently terrified after numerous nights of this, Nightmare steals their dream selves (Basically their souls) from their bodies, then imprisons them in a machine that keeps them in a never-ending loop of their greatest fears, which is portrayed as terrible as it sounds.

As for their physical forms, Nightmare transforms them into their worst fears, then sets them free onto New York, where they routinely attack and come close to killing numerous people, children included.

When Dr. Strange and the Hulk travel to the Dream Dimension in an attempt to stop him, Nightmare uses the Hulk's fear of Bruce Banner (The Hulk's depowered alter ego) to manipulate the Hulk into attacking and attempting to stamp out the Banner part of his personality.

Eventually, Nighmare captures Dr. Strange and entraps him in the same never-ending nightmare machine, during which Strange imagines children dying around him with him unable to save them. However, Strange breaks free and, working with Hulk, who has seen through Nightmare's manipulations, manages to duel Nightmare to a standstill.

When Nightmare notices the young teens who power his machine escaping, he first tries to use their fears on them once more, and, failing at this, outright tries to destroy their dream selves (Again, basically souls), and, while this fails and the kids are returned to their normal bodies once again, one of the teens, Benito, is permanently trapped in his monster body for the foreseeable future, a fact that Nightmare happily taunts him about.

Nightmare manages to escape the Dream Dimension, then reveals his master plan: To plunge every living soul in the world into a never waking nightmare while he feeds off of their fear for all eternity.

Plunging New York into this state first, resulting in ALOT of people having terrifying nightmares, Nightmare harnesses their screaming fear and makes himself powerful enough to duel Strange, the Hulk, and the Howl-ing Commandos (Another long story), where he giddily smacks them all around while proclaiming their world is over.

However, due to a powerful spell on Strange's part + Hulk beating him down, Nightmare's victims are awoken from their sleep, halting Nightmare's power source and leading him to be dragged back into the Dream Dimension.

And thus, the day is saved! Woo-hoo, yay....except for that Benito kid who's now stuck as a minotaur. >_>

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Hah, no. He's a sadistic creep who takes explicit pleasure from hurting others and feeding off their fear, so it's not just a "survival" thing.

Nothing implies he's Made of Evil or Fear or anything like that either. He does get a Badass Boast where he proclaims that he is fear, but this is quickly thrown out the window when it's explicitly revealed he himself is capable of fear as he is being thrashed by the heroes.

Heinousness?

Big Bad, worst in-story. This film has no canon-connections to other Marvel animation, and even if it did, Nightmare still occupies a very unique form of wickedry with which he stands out.

Overall, he plunged 4 young teens (And Dr. Strange) into neverending nightmares while he uses their physical bodies as monsters that he lets run rampant on New York, he tries to trick Hulk into destroying the human part of his personality so he can control him, he tried to kill the kids when they proved too resistant, and his master plan is to plunge humankind into a never-waking nightmare so he can feed off their fear for all eternity.

Final Verdict?

Keeper. The Fate Worse Than Death state that his nightmares and endgame entail is what really puts him over the edge, IMO, so Keeper.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#71179: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:35:14 PM

[tup] to Nightmare. If no one counts in Doctor Strange, I'll consider him a good trade-off. :p

And by the way, I just noticed that Marvel animated films have far less monsters than DC's animated outings. Not trying to make a point or anything, just something kinda funny/interesting that I picked up on. :p

Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#71180: Nov 3rd 2016 at 8:44:28 PM

[up] I proposed Herr Kleiser from the Ultimate Avengers movies once, it seems like he was close but no cigar.

There are fewer animated Marvel DT Vs then DC ones and many of the villains in the movies were Generic Doomsday Villain types (like Mandarin and Dormammu) and I remember the villain from the Thor animated movie being pretty sympathetic.

[tup] To Nightmare.

I wonder if we can get a image for the Marvel animated monster page, now that it has 22 examples and some examples of from PG-13 works.

edited 3rd Nov '16 9:09:41 PM by Overlord

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#71182: Nov 3rd 2016 at 9:19:15 PM

Re: Kleiser: Honestly.....rereading the discussion, I don't think Kleiser was went into as much detail as is normal for a candidate. Coincedentally, I'm rewatching the Ultimate Avengers films over the weekend as part of my Marvel Animation watchthrough, and IF I think something was skipped and/or glossed over, I'll consider re-proposing him with any more of said extra details. It's doubtful, but possible.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Overlord Since: Mar, 2013
#71183: Nov 3rd 2016 at 9:25:06 PM

[up] Fair enough, I could have missed some things.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#71185: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:11:00 AM

Since ACW asked, here is the tally for Niro:

[tup]: Myself, ACW, MGD 107, Clown Face,Very Melon, Mirai Yuji, Demon Duck Of Doom, G Editor, and Fried Warthog.

[tdown]: Ambar, Larkmarn, Lightysnake, and Scraggle.

jjj
JayRomeo Since: Sep, 2015
#71186: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:20:02 AM

Quick question, I just checked the Battlefield 1 page, this been approved? Want to be sure:

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#71187: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:36:29 AM

[up] Nope. Not approved. Crap entry, too.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71188: Nov 4th 2016 at 12:56:19 AM

[up][up][up] Thanks. So, 9-4. Seems he's a go, if only barely.
[nja] [tup] Nightmare BTW.

edited 4th Nov '16 1:55:21 AM by ACW

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
The 47th President
#71189: Nov 4th 2016 at 2:11:55 AM

[tup] to Hyperion and Nightmare

Hey guys I have just watched the SVU episode "Redemption" and I am now ready to propose the candidate Arthur Blessard.

Who is he? What has He done?

Arthur Blessard was an auditor with the Internal Revenue Service who moonlighted as a serial rapist-murderer for 18 years under the nickname So Ho strangler.

In 1983, he raped and murder seven women in the So Ho neighborhood in Manhattan. He would use his occupation to locate his victims, and would gain access to their homes by claiming he needed to meet them to discuss irregularities in their taxes. Once in their homes he would resort to tying them up to their beds where he would violently beat and rape as well as bite them before strangling them to death. Once finished he would leave a white roses left on the victims as a way to show everyone on what he did to those women. He took great pressure on his work as well as taunting the police the local police, but when the then-fresh Homicide Detective John Hawkins discovered a small clue that might point to him , Blessard decided to frame a mentally challenged flower deliveryman Roger Berry for his crimes.

After making Roger his fall guy resulting in the poor guy serving an 18 year sentence Blessard, left New York and continued his killing spree in other cities where he claim even more lives as well as his savagery. In Chicago, he began to cut away the flesh on bite marks he'd left on his victims and In Atlanta, he made began slitting throats.

Roger Berry was released in 2001 Blessard decided to go back to New York and kill more women there with the same MO just so he could frame the Roger once more. However he was alibied for those two murders, and Hawk with the help of Det. Elliot Stabler was able to identify Blessard as the true killer and justice finally caught up to him.

Freudian Excuse

All there is about him is that he works as an auditor for the IRS and that he is a neat freak. Thats All.

Redeeming Qualities

None.

He does clean up the room he has killed his victims, but that really out of remorse, but because he is a neat freak and the corpses he defiled are still in horrific state. When he is dangling on the roof he begs the cops to save him, this isn't a redeeming quality as he didn't admit to any remorse for the women he killed, it just shows that he is also a coward. (They do eventually but only to see the bastard rot in prison.)

Heinoussness

Well he murders many women in all brutally beaten, raped, and mutilated before strangling them or slitting their throats, knowingly frames a mentally disabled innocent man, so that the poor guy won't be able defend himself, continues to murder in many cities, and tries to frame the poor guy again when he gets out of prison. By the time Blessard is caught he has murder 21 women all without any remorse whatsoever. So it is suffice to say he counts.

Final Verdict

I'd give an [tup]. What about you guys?

edited 4th Nov '16 2:15:13 AM by G-Editor

My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#71190: Nov 4th 2016 at 2:16:33 AM

@nrjxll: Probably because he doesn't truly go insane until the end of the second book and the last book. By that time, Raem had already crossed the Moral Event Horizon multiple times and was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands. Dies Irae was similar; you can tell his sanity was completely gone by the third book, but he was already responsible for kidnapping one of his brother's daughters, several rapes, and the death of millions beforehand, so it wasn't really a disqualifying factor.

[tup] Nightmare.

Seems like most everyone who's voted on Angel and Raem has given them [tup]. I'll go ahead and try to get their write-ups done soon.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#71192: Nov 4th 2016 at 2:43:22 AM

Guess it would be a slight [tup]for Blessard.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#71193: Nov 4th 2016 at 2:51:39 AM

"Raem had already crossed the Moral Event Horizon multiple times"

No, by definition the Moral Event Horizon can only be crossed once because it's the specific action that makes the villain irredeemable.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#71194: Nov 4th 2016 at 5:55:59 AM

[tup]Nightmare and Blessard.

Why so serious?
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#71195: Nov 4th 2016 at 6:01:51 AM

I'll [tup] Blessard, assuming most of his crimes aren't Offstage Villainy.

And now here's the write-ups for Angel and Raem.

  • King Raem Seran from the Dawn of Dragons trilogy sees all Vir Requis as diseased creatures who must be purged from the world by any means necessary. Ashamed of being a Vir Requis himself, Raem has multiple Vir Requis executed in public. After discovering his son, Sena, is a Vir Requis too, he immediately tries to kill him, only stopping because Issari, his daughter, begs him not to. Fed up with the sheer amount of Vir Requis in his kingdom, Raem summons a demon named Angel and has her army seek out and slaughter any Vir Requis they find as they rape many of the women in Eteer. He also allows a witch to extract blood from Issari in exchange for information regarding his exiled daughter, Laira; Raem later hires Zerra Blacksmith to kill Laira and the remaining Vir Requis in the north. Once his initial plans fail, and Raem discovers that Issari is a Vir Requis after she tries to kill him, Raem allows Angel and her demons to feast upon the innocents in Eteer so they'll grow stronger and will assist him in hunting Issari and the other Vir Requis. As they hunt, Raem lets his demons feast upon any villagers they find before confronting the Vir Requis army and killing dozens in the ensuing battle. Raem later contacts the Widejaw tribe and turns them all into sphinxes before ordering them to destroy Requiem and kill any Vir Requis they find. Frustrated over his own "disease," Raem spends his free time executing many innocents in the Abyss, before ordering Angel's demon army to eradicate all life on earth.

  • The aforementioned Angel is Queen of the Abyss and a fallen deity. Upon being summoned by Raem, she immediately tries to drag him to the Abyss so she can torture him, only stopping because Raem holds all control over what she does. While Raem only wants Angel to kill all the Vir Requis in Eteer, she begs him to allow her and her demons to rape hundreds of women in the city too, which Raem agrees to. Angel and her demon army Rape, Pillage, and Burn as they please while Angel keeps begging Raem to let her army feed on human flesh as well—an offer Raem later agrees to in order to strengthen her army. As Angel's demons continue to wreak havoc upon the neighboring communities, Angel stays in Eteer to ensure her demons keep raping and impregnating as many women as possible. When Issari and many other Eteerian soldiers capture her, Issari tries to take control over Angel, only for her and the hundreds of pregnant women to give birth to half-demons who proceed to slaughter even more innocents. Angel continues to rape and kill indiscriminately while her army massacres villages and cities around the country. During the final confrontation between Angel and the Vir Requis, she starts mind raping some of the characters by making them believe that their fallen loved ones are being tortured in the Abyss. While Raem was driven out of shame and the need to purge the world of Vir Requis, Angel only cares about causing as much death and destruction as possible to satisfy her lust and hunger.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71196: Nov 4th 2016 at 6:22:42 AM

[tup] Blessard.
Tyk: Please check the Drafts page; I re-added Dies Irae and wanna make sure the whole tree looks okay.

Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#71197: Nov 4th 2016 at 6:33:11 AM

[up] Hmm. Not sure if we need all the bullet points. You fine leaving it how it was before and specifying which trilogy each one came from?

I might also design the series the way Warrior Cats is designed and give each trilogy its own separate page. Then that way each entry can be listed per trilogy.

EDIT: Scratch that. Go ahead and leave it as it is if you want. Chances are we're gonna have to add to it anyway since I'm more than likely gonna find another candidate. We'll worry about the format/design later when I'm done with the whole series.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:12:11 AM by Tyk5919

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#71198: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:42:34 AM

Well, since apparently, nobody else want to do it, I'll take care of the effortpost for Dragon Ball Xenoverse 2.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:44:15 AM by MiraiYuji

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#71199: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:45:37 AM

[up] Didn't you already say no one counts? You don't have to make an effort post if you don't believe anyone counts.

MiraiYuji Since: Dec, 2015
#71200: Nov 4th 2016 at 7:54:34 AM

[up]In reality, there is a character who is a tricky case, so it's still worth discussing. Besides, I might think that the candidate doesn't count, but the others may not share my opinion. Which is why I'll still discuss it.

edited 4th Nov '16 7:55:27 AM by MiraiYuji


Total posts: 326,048
Top