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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71001: Oct 31st 2016 at 3:49:18 PM

Why the hell was Anton holding a knife anyway?
Anyway, [tup] Gregor. If he ONLY killed his brother to prevent his prophecy, that wouldn't be enough, but he seems MUCH worse (albeit not quite at the level of that OTHER Gregor).
How many is that now for Karloff, and how many for Lugosi?

edited 31st Oct '16 3:50:48 PM by ACW

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#71002: Oct 31st 2016 at 3:55:56 PM

[tup] to Baron Gregor de Berghman.

Who else can see him and Lord Roose Bolton swapping stories over drinks?

Also I have to one day write a story where the Baron is the nicest kindest guy imaginable, so that there is one Baron in fantasy/historical literature who isn't evil.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71003: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:01:06 PM

[up] There are some. Lando, Horation, Pimpernel, and Porthos come to mind.

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#71004: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:06:46 PM

[up] Yeah your right, its just Baron seems to be the go to for evil aristocrat. I mean I know why this is, but it just seems so excessive.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#71005: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:07:11 PM

Easy yes to Gregor...and Jeremy Blaire at that. Plus the Ultraman example.

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#71006: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:08:40 PM

[tup]Gregor.

edited 31st Oct '16 5:14:32 PM by Clown-Face

Why so serious?
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#71007: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:14:57 PM

Yes to the Alien Bat and Jeremy.

edited 31st Oct '16 4:15:27 PM by Scraggle

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#71008: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:20:46 PM

Let's see what I missed.

[tup] Traitors.

[tup] Richard and Mord.

[tup] John Gray.

[tup] Murder Legendre.

[tup] Blaire.

[tup] the Alien Bat.

[tup] Gregor.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#71009: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:21:39 PM

[tup] Gregor

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
43110 (Striking Back) Relationship Status: Reincarnated romance
#71010: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:22:31 PM

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, [tup] to King Rick and Mor(d)y

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71011: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:26:43 PM

[tup] Blaire and Alien Bat.
It looks like Zagi was approved, but never given a writeup BTW.

edited 31st Oct '16 4:26:52 PM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#71012: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:27:10 PM

[up][up] Welcome to the thread. Snacks on the left.

edited 31st Oct '16 4:27:29 PM by Scraggle

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#71013: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:27:43 PM

One little thing about Jeremy Blair: I found this on the character page in his entry:

  • Villainous Friendship: It's implied that he and Trager were friends in one document you can find, where he mentions having fun golfing with him and finishes with "Jer".

jjj
Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#71014: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:29:10 PM

'Yes' to....basically all of the recent Halloween proposals, all of which sound awesome, hilarious, or both. Also 'Yes' to the 2nd-most-recent traitor and Alien Bat.

Also, I'm going out of town for a couple of days, so the Max Steel EP will be a couple more days in coming. Anyone who has seen the film has my go-ahead to discuss the baddie, and, if I DO find the time in the next couple of days and the baddie hasn't been brought up, I'll discuss him then.

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#71015: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:31:43 PM

[up][up] I'm inclined to think that's not mitigating in the least.

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#71016: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:40:34 PM

[up] Funny thing about that, it seems Gluskin's Freudian Excuse was ALSO in a document.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#71017: Oct 31st 2016 at 4:58:14 PM

Well, I'm currently quite tired and I've got a practical legion of films I'll be watching for Halloween tonight, so I think I'll save my third spooky candidate (which comes from a film that really looks pretty crummy but nevertheless probably has a pretty damn firm keeper regardless) for tomorrow. Time to enjoy the season, I say.

[down] Séance.

edited 31st Oct '16 5:07:12 PM by Scraggle

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#71019: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:15:23 PM

[tup]Alien Bat and Jeremy.

Why so serious?
superboy313 Since: May, 2015
#71020: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:27:56 PM

[tup]Gregor

edited 31st Oct '16 5:37:57 PM by superboy313

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#71021: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:32:01 PM

My final halloween proposal...

From the novel Hell House by the esteemed Richard Matheson.

The story concerns four people - Dr. Lionel Barrett, a physicist with an interest in parapsychology, his wife Edith, and two mediums (Florence Tanner, a Spiritualist and mental medium, and Benjamin Franklin Fischer, a physical medium) - who are hired by dying millionaire William Reinhardt Deutsch to investigate the possibility of life after death. To do so, they must enter the infamous Belasco House in Maine, regarded as the most haunted house in the world. The house is called "Hell House" due to the horrible acts of blasphemy and perversion that occurred there under the silent influence and supervision of Emeric Belasco. Fischer is the only survivor of a failed investigation attempt thirty years earlier. Daniel Belasco, Emeric's son, is thought to be the ghost that haunts the house..except...Emeric is impersonating his son to seem mroe sympathetic. At first.

Who Is He?

Emeric Belasco, the 'Roaring Giant' for his great height, was an occultist and a wealthy man who began to throw lavish parties within the walls of the manor. Desiring power over death itself, Belasco turned the house into a supernatural 'battery' to fuel his strength. The parties grew to incredible excess: feasts were served to the point of gluttony and revelry became debauchery. Countless atrocities took place with the walls, as Belasco presided over the court. Then, one night...Belasco presided over a reenactment of an old Roman court with a virgin fed to a leopard...among other brutal, murderous acts. When the night was done, everyone in the house was dead, but Belasco couldn't be found...all who have tried to enter the house have died or gone mad since...and now...

What's He Done?

Belasco intentionally committed suicide, hiding himself in a sealed off lead chamber to become a powerful ghost, harnessing all the energy accumulated by the house. Those who enter the house he viciously murders and violates. During the course of the novel, Belasco haunts those in the house, torturing them mentally and physically, keeping the other ghosts stuck there enslaved to him.

Florence suffers the absolute worst: Belasco goes after her specially, and attacks her, seducing her before brutally raping her and and possessing her to torment and kill the others. Using her body, Belasco sexually assaults Edith, the other woman of the group and mocks her about Edith's father attempting to assault her as well. Belasco is temporarily driven off, but returns to attack Florence again, making her feel 'perversions' that she finds abhorrent done to her, but also forces her to enjoy it. Finally, he kills her and, it's implied, violates her with her own crucifix as a final mockery and leaves her corpse to find. When the heroes manage to use an EMP to dispel the ghosts, Belasco is protected due to his corpse residing in the lead chamber. When they think they're safe, he attacks them again, sexually assaulting Edith, forcing her to feel a vision of being torn apart by a leopard.

Finally, Fischer and Belasco face off and...Fischer drives him back, exposes his real body and uses theEMP device to destroy his spirit and banish him to the afterlife he deserves.

Freudian Excuse?

Strap yourselves in.

He was angry he was short. No. That's it. That's all. He sawed off his legs and had them replaced with prosthetics to make him a giant. That was Step A. Step B was murder everyone.

Do I even NEED to say it?

Anything Else?

Welcome to the list, Belasco.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#71022: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:35:29 PM

Easy yes to Belasco and I still stand that is one of the most hilariously petty "excuses" ever... up with Merra's from the film of Tokyo Tribes. Actually astounding.

Since I'll be getting to Séance tomorrow and there's no contention on my two Karloff candidates, allow me:

The Body Snatcher: The sinister John Gray, "evil himself," is a man of depraved obsessions centered around his associate Dr. "Toddy" MacFarlane. A cabman by day and grave robber by night, Gray establishes his cruelty by killing a dog who announces his presence in the grave, thieving from the graveyard to supply MacFarlane with specimens for his research. Gray eventually turns to the murder of a blind street singer to sate MacFarlane and strangles his assistant Joseph to death, presenting his body to MacFarlane as a twisted gift and gradually driving MacFarlane deeper and deeper into the threshold of insanity until Gray finally admits he torments MacFarlane solely for the pleasure of having a rich man bent to his whims. Gray vows he will never stop tormenting MacFarlane, and his words ring true as MacFarlane's insanity claims him soon after he's driven to kill Gray. Hauntingly mad in his crusade to torment MacFarlane, Gray still remains among the most chilling performances of horror legend Boris Karloff.

The Black Room: Baron Gregor de Berghman holds cruel reign over his Tyrolean estate years after a prophecy predicted he would die at the hands of his younger twin Anton. Making a habit out of murdering the wives of the peasants he lords over out of little else but amusement, Gregor invites Anton back to his home with the intent to murder his benevolent brother and impersonate him. Gregor kills his servant Mashka after she expresses jealousy over Gregor's own lust over the beautiful Thea, and succeeds in tossing his own brother to his death into the titular Black Room, taking his place as to marry Thea and rule unopposed. Gregor murders Colonel Hassel after he sees through his deception, and arranges Thea's love Lussan to take the blame for the murder and be sentenced to death. Cruel whims and a desperation to eternally keep his place as Baron motivated Gregor, driving him to foul murder numerous over be it to his profit or for simple amusement.

edited 31st Oct '16 7:21:05 PM by Scraggle

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#71023: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:49:47 PM

[tup]Belasco.

Why so serious?
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#71024: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:50:02 PM

[tup] Gregor and Belasco.

Happy Halloween, all!

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#71025: Oct 31st 2016 at 5:59:11 PM

[tup] Gregor and Belasco.

On that "can a character retroactively become a CM" question? Uh...Dr. Light in DC Comics. tongue

edited 31st Oct '16 5:59:30 PM by ANewMan


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