During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I would like to ask about The Walking Dead villains. Do they simply qualify only in the Comic Book? Or are they simply listed on the Comic Book page since their actions are nearly the same in both mediums?
Welcome to the world of greatest media!No, because he had some (if few) very clear and unambiguous Pet the Dog moments, like genuinely loving his daughter.
edited 31st Oct '16 1:25:00 PM by Forenperser
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
You are right. Sometimes the adaptation can be equally good as the books (in Game of Thrones case), better (in Lord of the Rings case) or much, much worse (in Harry Potter case which I am not big fan of movies). Though, if we are treating adaptations as separate continuities, why do we often tend not to do CM write-ups for villains from adaptations (when they qualify of course)? I mean, why do we often give a writeup exclusively to the original work?
edited 31st Oct '16 1:39:07 PM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!Actually, the only time I can remember where all media is in continuity is TMNT only. They outright acknowledged the universes during the cartoon movie where the first cartoon and second cartoon Turtles worked together to take down the Utrom Shredder.
So exceptions are possible, but actually do research, and usually we can assume that a cartoon/movie/anime is in different continuity with a manga/comic.
Shadow?
Gray, Blaire, Alien Bat, and Murder
edited 31st Oct '16 3:09:13 PM by G-Editor
My sandbox of EPs and other stuff
to Gray, Blaire, Bat, the traitors and Murder. Seriously, what kind of name is that (it's still better than Friday Monday, though) ?
edited 31st Oct '16 3:10:55 PM by MiraiYuji
It really goes to show you how important a good effort post is. I feel like the only reason Jeremy Blaire wasn't voted up last time was because his effort post was so short and left out a lot of crucial detail.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.Question. Is it possible for a candidate to retroactively become a CM? Say, we have a minor recurring character who's been around for a while. Nothing to write home about. Then, little by little, through either flashbacks and word of mouth with evidence to avoid Offscreen Villainy, his/her/its heinousness is revealed.
Now for my second Halloween proposal to follow up The Body Snatcher... this is from The Black Room, a 1935 film starring Boris Karloff and Boris Karloff (and I'm not barring out the possibility a potential guest appearance by Boris Karloff). Karloff plays the twin brothers Anton and Gregor de Berghman as old Tyrolean royalty. A prophecy is devised that the younger brother shall kill the elder and destroy the family in an oubliette known as the titular Black Room. The prophecy doesn't come to light for decades and the brothers part... and then they reunite. And Gregor isn't feeling so keen on letting that prophecy come to light.
Who is Gregor? What has he done?
Gregor, now the Baron of his family's castle, is a cruel tyrant of a man who is absolutely reviled by his subjects (case in point being when Anton is initially riding into the castle through a horse carriage, he's nearly shot, and this is just brushed off as “oh, that was meant for Gregor.”) To be fair, though, they have good reason; Gregor has a nasty habit of taking away the wives of the local peasants and murdering them, tossing away their bodies to rot within the pit of the Black Room. Gregor is both hungry for the hand of local beauty Thea and desires to rule unopposed, so to this, he invites his brother Anton over to his castle. Anton's a pretty nice guy and he quickly wins the favor of the Baron's subjects and the castle staff. Anton doesn't believe that the rumors surrounding his brother are true, but catches a glimpse of Gregor's cruelty when he orders his manservant to drink wink he suspects is poisoned and later stops an assault on his castle by some rioting peasants, first pressing his dog to tear a man apart and then sending that man off to a doubtlessly unpleasant fate.
After a party in which Gregor... creepily tries to win Thea over, Gregor attracts the jealousy of one of his sercants, Mashka. Mashka accidentally speaks a few demeaning words too many and Gregor flies into a fury, stabbing her to death even as she pleads for her life. Gregor dumps her body into the pit away from the watchful eye of his majordomo, but he can't hide the evidence for long. A piece of the shawl Mashka was wearing before she was murdered is discovered and a horde of angry peasants burst into the castle to confront Gregor on the matter. Gregor remains remarkably calm and works the situation to his advantage, abdicating his throne to his brother Anton. As the paperwork ensues and Gregor presumably readies to leave the country, Gregor sets his real plan into motion. Gregor lures Anton into the Black Room and shoves him to his death inside the pit to die with Mashka's body and the bones of all the women he's killed. Gregor assumes Anton's identity and prepares to advance with marrying Thea.
Gregor, however, is angrily challenged by Thea's true love, Lt. Lussan. Gregor brushes off the matter but he's quickly picked up on Thea's relative Colonel Hassel. Gregor's ousted when he signs a document with his right hand (Anton's most distinguishing feature is that his right arm is completely paralyzed). Out of options, Gregor murders the Colonel and puts the blame on Lussan's head, leading him to be sentenced to death. As wedding plans go on, Gregor orders the castle's nosy dog killed (“poisoned, drowned, just get rid of it”). The dog, however, proves to be his undoing; a moment before Gregor and Thea can be married, the dog barges into the cathedral and attacks him at roughly the same time Lussan breaks out of jail. Gregor once again lets slip that his right arm is functional in front of the crowd, causing them to chase him into his castle. Gregor, in a panic, flees into the Black Room, and the dog chases him into the pit, where he falls onto the knife his dead brother is still clutching and dies, thus fulfilling the prophecy.
Any mitigating factors?
Exactly zero. He's got no affection for his brother, barely mentions his father, his eye for Thea is littered with creepy intentions for her, and he takes pride in his atrocities... seemingly murdering women purely for the hell of it and gleefully admitting that all the horrible things Anton has heard about him are true before he kills him. So yeah, nothing to talk about here.
Conclusion?
Very easy keeper and another recommendation for Halloween.
Thoughts?
edited 31st Oct '16 3:36:44 PM by Scraggle

I'll do a write-up for Zagi because last I checked he had about five or six votes.
I have another Ultraman candidate:
Who is he?
Alien Bat from Ultraman Saga.
What has he done?
Alien Bat (or Batto Seijin, in Japan) was a supervillain from the Ultra Series. He enslaved the kaiju of his universe, as well as the aliens from a neighboring universe, Ultraman Dyna's. Alien Bat then used his giant spaceship and small army of kaiju to feed nearly all life on Earth to his greatest weapon, Giganto Zetton. I do mean all life—-most of humanity is gone, and a good chunk of nature is wiped out too. Only a small dozen or so human survivors remain, and Bat takes great enjoyment in tormenting them with his giant monsters or projections, mocking their efforts to survive. He's a sadist, and could kill them all easily, but instead he loves to torture them emotionally just for kicks.
When Ultraman Dyna comes to this barren universe, sticking up for the survivors, Alien Bat sics his creaton on Dyna. It beat Dyna almost to death before turning him to stone. Bat finds this hilarious. When Zero and Cosmos are able to free Bat's other kaiju, Gubila and Gomess, Bat just murders both kaiju in cold blood barely a few seconds later. The two monsters didn't even have time to scream.
Eventually, Zero and Cosmos are able to resurrect Dyna with help from the human survivors, and we find out Bat's true motivation—-he was feeding Zetton all this power, all this despair, so that Bat could then merge with Giganto Zetton and turn him into Hyper Zetton. In other words, he wanted to become a god, and gloats about it throughout the climax.
Redeeming qualities: None whatsoever. Bat dies unrepentant of everything, and despite the Ultramen pushing the Reset Buttton on the human extinction and bringing everyone back to life, he's still played dead serious throughout. If it weren't for them, he'd have killed everyone on Earth, and enjoyed it.
Heinous standard: This version Bat exists in his own timeline, and is one of the few Ultra villains to go this far, in some ways worse than Zagi or The One because he successfully killed billions. The fact that the Ultramen were able to bring them all back to life by killing Zetton and Bat does not erase that—if they hadn't intervened all those people would have been fully absorbed by Hyper Zetton.
So yeah, I think he counts.