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Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
Tyk5919 Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin Since: Mar, 2011 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
#69877: Oct 15th 2016 at 4:01:08 PM

[tup] Offspring.

I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
therealjackieboy from Austin, TX Since: Feb, 2014 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
#69878: Oct 15th 2016 at 5:24:30 PM

[tup] Offspring (Ya, ya, ya, ya, ya!)

It's Spooky Month!
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#69879: Oct 15th 2016 at 6:34:56 PM

Yes to Kurassus and Offspring.

And what I want to say about the Chick Tract (I cough with disgust when I talk about it, and I am saying it as a Christian) is that it is so, so, so screwed up morality and the only character that in my opinion does qualify is God himself. He sends anyone who doesn't worship him to hell. That said, his actions are not portrayed as evil (even though rational people would likely see them as such) and it would also be insulting to some people. So, no Chick Tract will never have an example.

edited 15th Oct '16 6:35:10 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Ekimmak Since: Nov, 2010
#69881: Oct 15th 2016 at 7:15:07 PM

It's been a while. I dropped off the thread so I wouldn't get spoiled on upcoming games and movies, but now I'm back, because the new ABC Me channel has some new shows that aren't on TV Tropes yet, and might have some CM candidates.

Could someone refresh me on what the qualifactions are so I don't waste time with obvious rejects?

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#69882: Oct 15th 2016 at 7:19:14 PM

They're on the first page of the thread.

Ekimmak Since: Nov, 2010
#69883: Oct 15th 2016 at 7:42:58 PM

Ok, then.

Nobody from The Deep qualifies. While there's certainly an attitude for it in two of the (three) villains, they haven't done anything on screen to deserve it. Although firing missiles at the submarine of someone who is currently trying to save your life is low, you could equally argue that the guy was just an incompetent idiot.

I believe the main antagonist of Prisoner Zero qualifies, but I'll post him as an effortpost after watching through all the online episodes again (and remember his name). For the record, he shows no remorse, blows up a populated planet out of spite while his own troops were on it, imprisoned innocent civilians to use as components for an attempt at A God Am I, and fused with a Walking Wasteland for a second attempt at power.

[down]Wait, Junko? Last I heard, she was being considered for the Never Again list and a definite no because she was ambiguously deranged.

edited 15th Oct '16 8:12:53 PM by Ekimmak

ANewMan A total has-been. Since: Apr, 2013 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A total has-been.
#69884: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:11:21 PM

I approve of all the examples that got voted up, including Junko. smile

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#69885: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:21:48 PM

[up][up] We're referring to the one from the anime. She was deemed sane enough to qualify.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#69886: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:22:11 PM

[up][up][up]

After the Dangan Ronpa 3 anime, she was decided to pass as a CM. Never recalled her being a contender for Never Again though.

edited 15th Oct '16 8:22:22 PM by Awesomekid42

Ekimmak Since: Nov, 2010
#69887: Oct 15th 2016 at 8:25:35 PM

Well, I drug out the argument a lot. There were a few posts considering it, but it may just have been my fault.

I have not been able to watch the Anime, though. Will I need to get off the thread again?

FriedWarthog Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#69888: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:16:22 PM

Wow, Curtis was met with far less opposition than I thought. :O

I guess I was over thinking things? Still, I'm gonna wait until Monday to post a writeup for him just to see if anyone else wants to weigh in.

And sneaking of Criminal Minds, the channel I watch it on is wrapping up Season 7 on Monday, and I'm gonna watch an episode featuring an Unsub that's been approved but that I'm iffy about, as well as a potential candidate who ACW bought to my attention (Whose bodycount is in the 60's). Expect me to weight in on them around Tuesday or so.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#69889: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:17:54 PM

[up] Which one are you iffy on? Bradstone, because of his disability?

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#69890: Oct 15th 2016 at 9:59:05 PM

[up][up][up]

I don't see why you'd need to get off the thread.

Silverblade2 Since: Jan, 2013
#69891: Oct 15th 2016 at 10:38:04 PM

I wasn't serious with the track, I was just answering Demon Duckof Doom about ridiculous propaganda pieces. >_<

edited 15th Oct '16 10:51:37 PM by Silverblade2

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#69892: Oct 15th 2016 at 11:22:36 PM

I have been watching Batman The Brave And The Bold, and I have two nominees: General Kreegaar and The Brain.

Who is General Kreegaar? What does he do?

Kreegaar is a high ranking military official among the Gordanian race. He is the main antagonist of the episode Mystery in Space. Batman and Aquaman are teleported to planet Rann to help in the fight against the Gordanians. Batman, Aquaman, and the hero Adam Strange, get into the Gordanian war machine to try and stop the Gordanians, but Kreegaar reveals it was a trap, locking the three in a machine to slowly die from heat. The heroes get free and discover that Kreegaar is attacking Rann in a search for an ancient artifact, the Eye of Zared, capable of focusing the sun's rays and destroying any planet. Kreegaar intends to retrieve the eye so that the Gordanians can destroy planets, beginning with Rann. The Gordanians manage to obtain the eye, but before they can destroy Rann, the heroes use a teleportation ray called the Zeta beam to temporarily transport Earth's moon to Rann to cause an eclipse, rendering the eye useless. Kreegaar's ship is taken down, and he dies.

Redeeming features"

None.

Heinousness?

In his only appearance, he tries to destroy an entire planet, and was intent on repeating the process. He is not up to the standard of the faceless hunter, Chun Yull, but he is a One Shot villain, while Yull was an Arc Villain. In addition, Yull had Starro, which gives him more resources than Kreegaar.

Who is The Brain? What has he done?

Anyone who knows about the Doom Patrol likely knows who The Bain is: A literal Brain in a Jar.

In his debut episode, Journey To The Center Of The Bat, The Brain sends Chemo, a giant chemical monster, to a Bialyan nuclear testing site to steal a nuclear warhead, smashing the Navy's ships along the way. After getting the bomb, Chemo swallows it, becoming a walking time bomb. If Bialya didn't submit to the Brain, it would be destroyed by the explosion. Batman manages to retrieve the bomb from within Chemo and stop it. Batman confronts and deafeats The Brain, having him arrested.

In Game Over for Owlman!, he, along with Doctor Polaris, Gorilla Grodd, Clock King, Black Manta, and Gentleman Ghost, is recruited by Owlman to help him kill Green Arrow, Blue Beetle, Plastic Man, Red Tornado, Atom, and Aquaman, and retrieve the Phase Oscillator so he can return to his universe, gather his fellow villains, and return to conquer Batman's dimension, turning it into a dystopia where villains run wild and free, terrorizing people, just like in his home dimension. Owlman and his allies are stopped, and Owlman is sent back to his own universe and the other villains are arrested.

In The Last Patrol, The Brain, along with Monsieur Mallah and several other Doom Patrol villains, is recruited by General Zahl to help him force the Doom Patrol back together. The Brain and Mallah attack the chief, Niles Caulder, and, though they are stopped by Batman, The Brain warns them that the other members of the Doom Patrol are in danger, resulting in Caulder and Batman going to help them and reforming the team. Afterward, the team is captured by Zahl and placed on an island rigged with explosives, forced to choose between sacrificing themselves, or allowing another island with 14 civilians on it to be blown up. The Brain, Mallah, and the other villains are on the boat with Zahl, and attack Batman when he tries to stop Zahl. Though Zahl and his allies are defeated, Zahl, manages to destroy the island with the Doom Patrol on it.

Redeeming Features?

None. While he and Mallah were lovers in the comics, in the show, The Brain only works with him in one of his appearances, and they don't appear to be anything more than partners.

Heinousness?

He does not have the rapsheet that villains like Kreegaar and Yull have, but he's working within a smaller playing field. In the episode where he was the main villain, he was willing to destroy an entire country. Most villains on the show haven't gone anywhere near that far. In his other two appearances (at least the ones where he played an actual role and was not just a cameo), he aided other villains with truly monstrous goals, Owlman to kill six heroes and turn the world into a crime ridden dystopia where villains rule, and Zahl to either murder the Doom Patrol or force them to sacrifice 14 civilians to save themselves, all while broadcasting it to the people of the world to break their spirits. With the exception of Mallah, who appeared in the earlier episode Gorillas in Our Midst, The Brain is the only villain involved in Zahl's episode (including Zahl himself) to appear in any other episodes, so naturally, he out does them. His aiding in Zahl's plan and his own attempted destruction of bialya puts him over the other villains involved in Owlman's plot. With a higher leg up than any of the other villains in his playing field, I'd say he counts.

jjj
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#69893: Oct 15th 2016 at 11:24:30 PM

I'm seriously skeptical of Brave and the Bold having any more qualifiers. Chun Yull seemed a special case. Psycho Pirate especially so. I'm very much leaning a no on the Brain, though, because it seems a lot of his villainy is dependent on the machinations of others; two of those appearances you listed had him part of a plot of another villain - his complicity in them shared by every other villain recruited - and his one independent crime doesn't really seem to stand out enough by the standards of the setting. As for Kreegaar... does he stand out from the rest of the Gordanians, any? The way the post is written makes it somewhat dubious, main antagonist or not.

[down] "Leaving the heroes to die/trying to kill the heroes" is such a generic crime by the standards of media - superhero shows especially - it might as well not be mentioned at all. As for the whole planet-destroying debacle... I think I'll leave this to the judgment of someone more acquainted with the show before I cast a solid vote.

edited 15th Oct '16 11:35:44 PM by Scraggle

bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#69894: Oct 15th 2016 at 11:32:11 PM

[up] He's the one in charge during the episode, and he's the one who personally leaves Batman, Aquaman, and Adam Strange to die from heat. He is the one in charge, the other Gordanians just follow his orders, and after his death, the others surrender.

jjj
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#69895: Oct 16th 2016 at 3:13:02 AM

From what I know of Superhero comics, destroying the planet is a very standard villain goal and by extension putting people out of their misery by an Earth shattering Kaboom isn't necessarily that bad of a crime. Now if he wanted to end the world with as much suffering as possible, maybe. But I'm leaning no on both of those examples. Maybe Ambar could clarify? I just don't feel like either makes the standard set by Joker. I believe in this comic, Joker does more.

edited 16th Oct '16 3:15:28 AM by Klavice

AmbarSonofDeshar Since: Jan, 2010
#69896: Oct 16th 2016 at 6:42:42 AM

"No" on the Replicator in Criminal Minds. He's active for an entire season yet has a comparatively minuscule bodycount. Just contrast him with prior recurring villains like Frank Breitkopf, Ian Doyle, or the Boston Reaper—let alone the likes of Billy Flynn. There's just not enough there.

Junko was discussed before and I don't see anything new coming up. Still "no".

Skimming the discussion...please tell me no one seriously brought up the Smiling Knight.

"No" on Onomatopeia. It's not entirely clear if his Green Arrow and Batman appearances are even taking place in the same universe as one another, which effectively cuts any crimes he might have in half. If they were ever to bring him back to the Green Arrow comics as a regular recurring villain he'd have a shot at qualifying, but his creator's insistence on using him as a Batman villain—and refusal to send him back to Green Arrow'' because he always wanted him to be a Batman villain—puts him up against too much competition in the serial killer department.

And "no" on the Brave and the Bold villains for not sounding bad enough.

Awesomekid42 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
#69897: Oct 16th 2016 at 7:13:04 AM

I understand voting no on Junko, but not seeing anything new? Um...we've discussed a seasonal anime worth of new material from her, I fail to see how that's not seeing anything new.

edited 16th Oct '16 7:19:15 AM by Awesomekid42

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#69898: Oct 16th 2016 at 7:15:43 AM

That, and there is no indication that she was too insane to qualify, unlike her game counterpart who thinks anything hopeful is bad, anything sorrowful is good.

erazor0707 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
#69899: Oct 16th 2016 at 9:30:19 AM

Apologies for my slowness. Let’s get this show on the road.

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, hear ye! Hear ye! I’ve finally finished the effortpost for M. Bison. So, without further ado, let’s begin the discussion for Mr. But for Me, It Was Tuesday himself.

What is the work?

Street Fighter is one of the most famous video game series for its influence particularly in the fighting game genre owned by Capcom.

Who is the candidate?

M. Bison is the primary antagonist of the Street Fighter franchise, also serving as the Final Boss of II. The leader of the multinational criminal organization Shadaloo, and the enemy of almost every character in the franchise. He is the wielder of a purely negative energy known as Psycho Power, which is fueled by evil thoughts and desires. Bison's ultimate goal is world domination, and his ambition has made him responsible for nearly every bad thing that happens in the series.

It is said that M. Bison was at one point nothing more than a young martial artist like any other but with overwhelming ambitions, so in order to be the best in the world of martial arts, M. Bison murdered his own master before giving in to complete chaos. M. Bison's master was said to be the only known person in the world who could manipulate the evil power known as "Psycho Power" at the time and it is also said that, before his death, M. Bison's master passed the power to only three other students, M. Bison himself being one of them. According to a quote against Chun-Li, he also killed his own father.

Shortly afterwards, hoping to seek both knowledge and strength to become the strongest in the world, Bison sought out many practitioners of other fighting styles to defeat and learn of their techniques, in the pursuit of being able to reinforce and keep his title as the strongest martial artist in the world. One of them was Gouken, whom he confronted unsuccessfully to analyze and see for himself the power of Ansatsuken and its principle of Hado. Later on, Bison would somehow come into power over his syndicate of Shadaloo.

What he has done?

In his debut of Street Fighter Alpha 2, M. Bison reveals he murdered Chun-Li’s father as a brief duel. Then, towards the end, he fights Ryu, intending on recruiting him into Shadaloo. When Ryu refuses, Bison fights and defeats him. He takes Ryu's body to his scientists for a brainwashing via exposure to Psycho Power.

In Alpha 3, Bison’s body is growing weak from Psycho Power overuse. Having predicted this, he has the scientists create Dolls, kidnapped and brainwashed teenage girls, including the creation of Cammy, perfect clone of Bison made from his DNA. This is so he can transfer his essence to him to keep living. Cammy grows self-aware and his henchman fail to retrieve her, so Bison sets his sights on Ryu instead. In order to lure him out, M. Bison kidnaps Ryu’s best friend and rival, Ken Masters, brainwashing and pitting him against Ryu. Once Ken is saved, Ryu then takes on M. Bison but loses despite giving his all. Once defeated, Ryu is subjected to M. Bison's Psycho Power. Sagat, witnessing these events, objects and M. Bison responds by telling him he can finally have his long desired rematch with Ryu. As Sagat urges Ryu to snap out of M. Bison's hypnosis, Ken and Sakura attack M. Bison and engage him in battle, allowing Ryu to break free of M. Bison's mental grip.

Once again, Ryu engages M. Bison in battle. M. Bison realizes Psycho Power and Hado are alike and attempts to put Ryu under his control once again. Ryu manages to resist and strikes M. Bison down. Bison is then temporarily incapacitated, and retreats to the Psycho Drive to regenerate himself. Meanwhile, Cammy, now acting on her own, manages to assemble the remaining Dolls and turn them against their master. The refreshed M. Bison appears and decides that the Dolls are no longer of use to him, therefore, they are to be disposed of. All of the Dolls fight back, but M. Bison informs them that if he is to perish, because of the psychic link between the dolls and him, they will experience the same fate. Nevertheless, the Dolls escape the Shadaloo base as their minds slowly begin to deteriorate. Cammy, with little time left, takes advantage of her genetic similarity to M. Bison in order to operate the Psycho Drive. Using it, she removes the psychic fail-safe on the Dolls and saves them.

Charlie and Guile enter the base on a mission to stop M. Bison, joined by Chun-Li. After learning that the bombardment of Shadaloo was called off due to corruption in Interpol and M. Bison's manipulation, Chun-Li realized that they would have to destroy the base themselves. As Chun-Li and Guile escape the explosive-rigged base, Charlie keeps fighting the resurrected M. Bison, and ultimately seems to sacrifice his own life to allow their escape. Bison's soul, however, ends up surviving the explosion and takes control of Rose. Bison remains inside Rose's body until his Shadaloo scientists forge a new body for him, at which point he releases Rose from his control, and she awakens back at home, with few memories of what happened.

In II Turbo, Bison holds a tournament to get revenge on his opposition, especially the one who destroyed the Psycho Drive. Super Street Fighter IV reveals, sometime before II, Bison ordered the creation of at least 26 androids by S.I.N., the weapons division of Shadaloo. #15 (Seth) was chosen to be the new head of S.I.N. Bison also had a Korean official murdered along with his family; the official's young daughter, Juri, barely survives, and Seth gives her cybernetic enhancements, deciding she can be used as a test subject since she already was a Taekwondo prodigy. Later down the road, Bison eventually reaches Seth's S.I.N. headquarters at the head of the remaining androids, attacking Seth for renouncing his mindless servitude, which makes him useless. Seth protests that he had almost rebuilt Bison's empire, which had fallen into decline since the second World Warrior tournament; however, M. Bison counters by saying that everything that has happened has, in fact, been part of M. Bison's plan.

In V, Bison is in approval on F.A.N.G.’s Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. where weapons called Black Moons will cause widespread destruction, fear, and chaos—elements that will empower M. Bison’s Psycho Power. After a city in North America (probably New York City) is destroyed, Bison appears to watch his generals quarrel. Then, Guile and Chun-Li. Chun-Li, eager to settle the score, tries to fight him but is beaten. She is about to be killed, but Cammy's well timed intervention saves her. The trio escapes as Bison deems them unworthy of pursuit. In the final attack on the Shadaloo base, Charlie faces Bison once more. Bison, now seemingly invincible due to the worldwide panic spread by his Moons, wins again. Nash, however, manages to absorb an enormous amount of Psycho Power before he is obliterated by it. Ryu then shows up to stop Bison for good. Bison requests that Ryu shows him the power that defeated Necalli, and Ryu responds that it is not a power to defeat-it is the power to push forward. Bison scoffs and tells Ryu that power is just power, that the quest for ultimate power leads to conflict, and the conflict leads to the ultimate battle. He is defeated but fights back with a Psycho Inferno, but Ryu counters it with a Hadoken. Bison merely laughs as he fades away. His base soon crumbles into the ground along with his remains.

Heinousness standard?

The Heavy and the Big Bad. Bison easily sets it in the Street Fighter universe. Everything Shadaloo and its agents do falls under his watch.

Redeeming Qualities?

Not one.

Freudian Excuse?

None.

Mitigating factors?

Well, there IS a reason why Equal-Opportunity Evil is on his trope page. To quote: “Bison doesn't turn down potential minions and hires men and women from all over the world in the pursuit of evil. In fact, he's not above taking out any stops to gain allies, recruits or minions by any means necessary. He offers great pay or personal luxuries and vices, makes political allies from bribery or elimination of mutual enemies, promises scientists a spectacular playground free of moral constraints or red tape, and virtually any other means that are feasible. And if none of that works, he's not above forcing you to work for him by taking you or your loved ones hostage, using blackmail, or going with plain old Mind Control, either.”

However, Bison’s philosophy is darwinist and utiltarian—he states to F.A.N.G. in his arcade story he has no need for loyalty, just people who are strong and useful. And, even then, Bison has attempted to kill “allies” like Seth and the Dolls for one reason or another.

There’s also the issue of moral agency. It turns out Bison got rid of all the goodness in himself, which manifested in the form of separate character Rose. However, it should be noted Bison did this intentionally, implying he thinks Being Good Sucks. He’s still fully aware of his actions before and after the procedure. And doesn’t care.

Final verdict?

[tup] While his Deadpan Snarker and Large Ham tendencies do make him a little comedic, his evil actions are all played seriously. This is best seen in Street Fighter V where so many factions (Interpol, Illuminati, etc.) are all working against him to stop him for good. They do NOT want a world where Bison is godlike in power.

I hope I covered everything. That was a lot of information I had to dig through, and my knowledge of Street Fighter history isn’t all that thorough.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#69900: Oct 16th 2016 at 10:27:28 AM

Yes to Bison. Him counting goes without saying at this point.


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