During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Koulak and Harry Skinner. Sigrid I'll give a slight
to as well. Not that evil compared to the plethora of 2KAD monsters, but good enough.
Unsure on Harry. Besides his delusions, how much is his grandma domineering him (i.e. is that culture all he knew?)? And "Harry intervenes to shoot an Indian guy that Rowan had just saved from a werewolf bite while both are sleeping, thinking that she has betrayed his kindness." Come again?
Sigrid I think. But "As Sigrid is about to sacrifice Keira to extinguish mankind, Rowan uses one of her last levitation tricks to kill Sigrid." Boy that seems like a Deus ex Machina.
This week's batch will have to wait BTW (cousin's wedding).
edited 15th Oct '16 6:26:44 AM by ACW
^^ The order of events is this: Harry hallucinates that Rowan is in love with him when she's elsewhere fighting werewolves. Rowan saves the other guy from a werewolf bite, they both go to sleep. Harry stumbles on Rowan's group, thinks that Rowan "betrayed" him, so he shoots the other guy.
And nope, not a Deus ex Machina either. She's explicitly a witch with magic powers.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Sigrid
Can ridiculous propaganda pieces have C Ms? I know that racist propaganda is frowned upon (though I don't think there's a hard rule against it), but if, say, Reefer Madness has one (which I highly doubt), would they be worth proposing?
Well we approved Alexander Nevsky having one, and at heart its entirely (very well made) Soviet Propaganda.
So I can't see why not.
IDK. A Chick tract https://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1033/1033_01.asp
has a boy who becomes a serial killer and a terrorist when he's told that the tooth fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny don't exist but it's so ridiculous that I wouldn't dare to make an effort post.
AFAIK Chick Tracts has a completely messed up moral universe where you can be a psycho rapist-killer-torturer-murderer, but if you do a last-minute conversion to Christ then you go to eternal bliss. If you have been a benevolent person all your life who has fed the poor and saved babies from burning buildings, you'll go to eternal torment if you don't recognize Christendom as the One True Religion. The metaphysics of such a place makes the possibility of a CM impossible.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"'Yes' to John Curtis, Koulak, and Morgen's proposals. Late 'Yes' to Scraggle's proposals, as well.
Alright, new candidate.
What's the work?
The Eternal (2003) is a not-extremely-good 6-issue comic miniseries adaptation of the classic Marvel property, The Eternals.
In this alternate telling of them, the Eternals are hundreds of servants of powerful "gods" known as Celestials. The Eternals are all male, due to the fact that the Celestials' first act upon "recruiting" them was to wipe out all females of the Eternal race.
For thousands of years, the Eternals, led by Ikaeden, have traveled from world to world, using a device to anthropomorphize the local fauna (Calling them "deviants"), then use them as slave labor to harvest the planet's resources to feed the Celestials with, and they then leave it a barren husk.
Now, the story kicks off when the Eternals land on an ancient Earth.
Who is he?
Kurassus is the (Story's own words, here) "sadistic second-in-command" of the Eternals, second only to the leader, Ikaeden.
Unlike most of the Eternals, Kurassus is perfectly fine with serving the Celestials, just so long as he gets to hurt and kill at his leisure.
What has he done?
Kurassus is known and feared throughout the Eternals as being a sexual sadist who would often take numerous members of the "deviants" the Eternals anthropomorphized, then rape and brutally torture them to death.
Once on Earth, Kurassus immediately tries to get his hands on female deviants that the Eternals create from the simian life on the planet, continuing his track record of torturing and murdering them for fun in...particularly nasty ways.
When Ikaeden uses a device known as the "Apple" to upgrade one of the deviants' sentience, she becomes almost as smart as the Eternals as takes the name "Jeska".
Now, many of the Eternals take deviants to satisfy their sexual lust, however unlike Kurassus, they darn near all treat them just fine, with some even beginning to love their partners, which disgusts Kurassus to no end, stating that having sex with them is fine, but actually loving them is about the same as loving a frog. >_<
Kurassus learns of Jeska's new intelligence, and how Ikaeden has fallen in love with her, and immediately begins trying to turn the rest of the Eternals against Ikaeden, and, when another Eternal grants his deviant partner sentience as well, Kurassus brutally murders the deviant in front of the Eternal just to torment him, then tries to kill him before Ikaeden intervenes.
Ikaeden brutalizes Kurassus, however once Kurassus is healed and learns that Ikaeden plans to make a stand against the Celestials, he manages to turn many of the Eternals to his side, then begins to brutally slaughter any and all female deviants who are now sentient, along with the Eternals who granted them said sentience.
Using the imprisoned members of the dozens of other races the Eternals have enslaved and eradicated, Kurassus unleashes these monsters onto an unsuspecting and defenseless party of female deviants and Eternals who are allied with Ikaeden, and he gleefully massacres them all while cackling like a lunatic.
Kurassus continues to order all Eternals following Ikaeden and the female deviants to murdered, and in the meantime, manipulates Jeska, Ikaeden's deviant lover, into using the Apple to damage her frontal lobe, regressing her mind into a superstitious and god-fearing state, where she cowers even before Ikaeden.
Ikaeden attacks Kurassus for this, with Kurassus taunting him all the way about the futility of the situation and the fate of his lover, and, even when Ikaeden has him beaten, Kurassus states he didn't kill Jeska because that would have been too easy and not painful enough for Ikaeden, as now, she's got a completely different mindset than Ikaeden could understand, thus alienating her from him even more than if she were dead.
Ikaeden leaves Kurassus half-dead, with Kurassus begging him to kill him before the Celestials show up and subject him to a Fate Worse than Death for his various crimes against them.
Ikaeden makes the ultimate sacrifice and uses the Apple on himself, reducing himself to average-human-intelligence, on exchange for the Cekestials letting himself, Jeska, and any other deviants who have survived Kurassus' onslaught, live in superstition and fear of the "gods" that the Celestials are.
And thus Ikaeden and Jeska basically become Adam and Eve and start a new life on Earth as "humans", while Kurassus is killed by falling debris from a planet the Celestials had recently destroyed (Makes sense in context...kind of), all while cursing Ikaeden and his kind for all eternity.
Freudian Excus or other redeeming qualities?
His "excuse" (The Celestials wiping out the females of their species and turning the males into their slaves and heralds) is the exact same as all the other Celestials, but he is the only one shown who is an explicitly sadistic psychopathic. He also never uses said "excuse" in a sympathetic manner except when trying to turn others against Ikaeden.
For a while, his reason for turning on Ikaeden seems to be somewhat sympathetic, seeming to want to protect what little of the Eternals is left from the Celestials' wrath, however even this is proven to be bullcrap. He likes serving under the Celestials because he gets to dominate, torture, and murder entire species at his leisure. He also, at the very end, reveals that another reason for his crimes is because he's jealous of Ikaeden for being the leader and seeming to have the Celestials' favor above himself. He also has no problem murdering other Eternals in his plans, so yeah.
Finally, as he thinks he is preparing to be killed by Ikaeden, Kurassus uses his last words to first state that everything that has happened is the gods' punishment on them for serving the Celestials....then quickly goes into taunting Ikaeden about his coming death and Jeska's new mental state. So, while at first, he almost seemed to elicit some sympathy, that quickly goes out the window as he immediately goes back to viciously taunting Ikaeden.
Heinousness?
Worst in-story bar the Celestials, which, considering they are Eldritch Abominations, is quite the feat.
Overall, he's a self-proclaimed inhumane sadist who uses anthropomorphized, partially sentient, animals as his rape, torture, and murder toys, brutally murdered many of the Eternals and their now-sentient "deviant" lovers, subjected Ikaeden's love interest to Mind Rape that left her a level below Ikaeden's intelligence just to torture him, and unleashed monstroud creatures to massacre dozens of Eternals and their lovers, and all out of either fear for his own life, sadism, or Fantastic Racism.
Final Verdict?
I'm leaning 'Keep'. He's a sadistic psychopath who, though partially doing what he does out self-preservation, ultimately commits his crimes with a smile on his face and for sadism. Some of his final lines might have a more sympathetic side to them, but this is never focused on and he immediately goes back to being a jerkass monster, so yeah.
edited 15th Oct '16 10:58:19 AM by Ravok
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!Alrighty, new post from 2000 AD! Morgen once proposed Nelson Bunker Kreelman from Strontium Dogs…building off that continuity, we have the spinoff Durham Red…Red is a mutant as well and a former partner/love interest of Johnny Alpha. Unlike Johnny, Red’s a wee bit more morally dubious and her mutation makes her a vampire. Sharpened canines, nigh immortality, subsists on fresh blood to stay alive. Y’know, the works.
Ignoring the massive Continuity Snarl (a lot of early Strontium Dogs stories are just ‘legends’ instead of canon now), Red eventually froze herself in cryo-stasis, intending to sleep for a year or two to recover over a few things….things went wrong and she slept for 1,200 years, waking in the far future….things have changed a bit.
For one thing, mutants are still an oppressed minority, now actively hunted by the ‘holy’ forces of humanity. The mutants, however, have made Red into a messianic figure of their religion. The holy ‘Saint Scarlet.’ One mutant named Jude Harrow ends up awakening her. A wee bit perturbed to be waking up so late, Red is forced to adjust and live in the new world. As a result, she’s soon hunted by human ‘iconoclast’ forces, and in a fight, takes a bite out of Templar Matteus Godolkin…who believes being bitten makes him her thrall (this isn’t true, but don’t tell him that.) Red eventually locates the supposedly lost world of earth, when she hears a psychic voice calling to her. The most powerful mutant ever had been long imprisoned there and in return for Red’s help, it vows to destroy the human and mutant weapons of war to make them incapable of fighting any more. It’s lying.
Who Is He and What’s HE Do?
The Offspring is an ancient mutant. Upon its birth the Offspring combined godlike powerful with sociopathic disregard for life. By sheer chance, the leaders of humanity managed to imprison it on planet earth, and sent the planet into the unknown void to forever banish it. Manipulating Red, the Offspring frees itself…and has zero intention of honoring its bargain…
What’s It Done?
The first thing it does is annihilate the human fleet. Then it decides to deal with humanity in the worst, most sadistic way imaginable: by infecting the human species with a plague that kills the vast majority of humanity and consigns the others to slow death. Red is spared, but savaged and left alone on another world to slowly lose her mind and become a feral beast. A small mutant following of hers gathers, led by her son with Godolkin (Who figured out he wasn’t actually her slave but stuck by her out of love). The aged Godolkin, a century hence, comes to find Red and bring her back out of hope she can stop the Offspring and save what’s left of humanity.
The Offspring is revealed to be happily taking its time with humanity. It goes to various worlds, slaughtering the populations to the last being. Other times, it destroys human fleets or ships, and gets creative with death and pain. The mutants fare little better, as the Offspring puts them under a monstrous regime where the vast majority of mutants are deemed too weak to survive in his new era and ‘culls’ them, enacting a death cult in his name.
Red manages to lure the Offspring out with the remnants of humanity. The Offspring attacks, wiping out multiple humans before Red tricks him and brings him into a fracture in time-space, where the two are sent hurtling through the void, where even the Offspring’s powers cannot save him. Though Red manages to find a future where she activates her repulsor pack and escapes before collapsing of seemingly mortal wounds in her son’s arms before a Distant Finale a thousand years hence when the mutants have established civilization throughout the galaxy.
Heinous Standard?
Good. GOD. The Offspring commits genocide on billions of human beings. Millions of mutants. It’s sadistic and monstrous, killing wantonly or slowly as the mood takes it. Nelson Kreelman wasn’t anywhere close to this successful with his anti-mutant fervor.
Redeeming Qualities?
Ok, so it’s a MITE peeved about being stuck for over a thousand years. Does not begin to justify its monstrosity or cruelty. Other than that, zero redeeming qualities. When it learns Red is killing of its top commanders, its response is “Meh, be there when I feel like it.” And, y’know, instituting a Nazi-like regime where a hint of weakness means you die to ‘purify’ the species.
Conclusion?
Genocidal god-wannabe fascist murderer? Keeper.
edited 15th Oct '16 11:18:34 AM by Lightysnake
Kurassa and the Offspring.
Also, I tweaked Chantique and Demagol's entries. Nothing major, just added a couple pot-holes. Could that be added to the main page?
Why so serious?I made a re-write of Hybrid from Rom, may as well do another on another who's description felt weak to me. Atrocitus from Green Lantern: The Animated Series.
Atrocitus, the Big Bad of the first half, is dedicated to the destruction of the Green Lantern Corps, having many of them murdered by his Red Lantern followers. First showing his ruthlessness in ordering a colony world full of innocent civilians destroyed, Atrocitus later revealed he had destroyed worlds to fill survivors with rage and recruit them as Red Lanterns. Unlike his comics counterpart, a Tragic Villain at worst and an Anti-Hero at best, Atrocitus in the show delighted over the pain he caused innocents and took sadistic pleasure in his actions. Even though he himself had once lost a homeworld, he gloated over inflicting the same agony on others like Razer.
Here's my re-write under 300.
Atrocitus is the leader of the Red Lantern Corps and lacks any of his comic book self’s more redeeming qualities. While he lost his homeworld to the Manhunters, his obsession with destroying the Guardians of the Universe destroyed any noble intentions he may have had. Starting the Red Lantern Corps, Atrocitus caused many worlds to be caught in war, resulting in millions of lives needlessly lost, in order to find new recruits. Seeing Razer’s potential being blocked by the love for his wife, Illana, Atrocitus murders her. He eventually reveals this with sadistic glee. Under his orders, the Red Lanterns lure several Frontier Lanterns into traps where they are murdered. When Hal Jordan and Kilowog escape with Frontier Lantern Shyir Rev to his homeworld, Atrocitus proclaims to the inhabitants they are “under the Red Lanterns’ protection”, which involves handing the Green Lanterns over or he will set off a bomb that will destroy the planet. When they fight back, he allows the detonation to occur, though the people are saved, Shyir Rev sacrifices himself. Attempting to reach Oa to kill the Guardians, he hires Drusa to take control of Aya and board the Intercerptor, he critically injures Salaak and brutalizes Hal before being overpowered and defeated. He makes his return in “Love Is a Battlefield”, where he’s given a chance at freedom if he can defeat and kill Carol Ferris, agreeing when he learns she’s the woman Hal loves. Hal intervenes, though Atrocitus indirectly murders the Star Sapphire Ghia’ta, promising Hal that Carol will be next. Referred to by Aya as the “champion of hate”, Atrocitus demonstrates how rage and obsession makes one worse than those they fight.
"Sam Manson is a terrible character."Okay, I have about 15-20 minutes before going to my cousin's wedding (I'm in NJ; I mean the bus from the hotel to the ceremony), so let me catch up a bit.
- NEXT week's batch may just be super-sized.
- Still yes on Sigrid, abstaining on Harry.
Kurassus, taking your word he's not played sympathetically. As for the self-preservation...unless his sexual sadism is part of that, that's not a disqualifier for me.
- For the Offpsring, his excuse would makle me hesitate a bit...except it seems he was bad beforehand, which is why he was locked up. If that's correct (AND if there's no indication he's Made of Evil), yes to him.
- Clown-Face: Those minor tweaks are fine with me at least; you can request those yourself.
- Duel Mark: To the drafts please.

my draft