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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#68751: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:25:41 AM

A little OT, but....Prince Braunschweig, seriously? xD As a german, I can't help but cringe at the mere hearing of this.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
snakeky-man Since: Jun, 2016
#68752: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:30:37 AM

[up] that does not sound like a name to give to a prince

Beast from Ontario, Canada Since: Aug, 2012 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
#68753: Sep 28th 2016 at 11:24:27 AM

[tup] Zharradan.

"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#68754: Sep 28th 2016 at 12:04:07 PM

'Yes' to Zharradan

Anywho, here's the Choice of Games write-ups....

  • Choice of Games:
    • Hero of Kendrickstone: Milius Black-Clad was once the Grand Wizard for the city of Kendrickstone, however after sacrificing animals and children in order to further his research, he was banished from the city. Enraged at Kendrickstone for rejecting his "genius", Milius began kidnapping and brainwashing hundreds of innocents into becoming his slaves, then uses them to lead raids on caravans and travelers coming to and from Kendrickstone, making sure to slaughter as many people as possible during said raids. After promising to spare Kendrickstone should it surrender to him, Milius is revealed to have lied and plans to massacre the hundreds of inhabitants and raze the city to the ground even if it unconditionally surrenders.

    • Choice of Zombies: Anita is a minor villain encountered in the story, yet makes the most of her time to be a truly monstrous individual. Seemingly the kind leader of a group of survivors of the zombie apocalypse who have taken up residency at a church, Anita is in actuality a religious fanatic who believes zombies to be the next step in human evolution, and as such, uses her friendly exterior to lower innocents' guards before feeding them to a group of zombies she keeps chained up, releasing any people who reanimate back into the world in the hopes to turn evermore people into the "master race". Depending on your choices, Anita can try to feed a child to her zombies, and even succeed, all while claiming it is the "will of God".

And here's the Platoon re-writes (Now THAT'S a good movie):

  • Platoon:
    • Staff Sergeant Bob Barnes is a sociopathic brute who believes himself to be the ideal that all American soldiers should strive to be. Already showing himself to be an unforgiving fanatic by regularly degrading his own troops, even as they die all around him, Barnes shows his truly vicious personality when, while leading a raid onto a small Vietnamese village, he kills numerous villages who are too slow in complying with his orders, before shooting an innocent woman in the head for irritating him. Holding an innocent child at gunpoint in an attempt to force her father to answer his questions, Barnes develops a seething hatred toward Sergeant Elias for halting his crimes, and later guns him down to eliminate the only one who would incriminate him for his murders. In the end, Barnes ruthlessly attempts to murder the only other man willing to stand up to him, Charlie Taylor, and goads Taylor into killing him to prove his point that war and conflict is the true state of humankind.

    • Bunny is a psychopathic scumbag who quickly graduates from a particularly nasty prick to a full-blown monster. When he and his squad invade a Vietnamese village, Bunny happily beats a disabled teenage boy to death, before doing the same to the boy's mother. Following this, Bunny leads the gangrape of two young girls, mocking Taylor for not joining in. By the end of the film, Bunny giddily mows down enemy soldiers with a smile on his face, proclaiming that he feels as if he's done nothing wrong and that war is true freedom, enabling people like him in to indulge in whatever wicked acts their hearts desire.

edited 28th Sep '16 12:04:36 PM by Ravok

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
emperors Messenger from another dimension. Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: It's complicated
Messenger from another dimension.
#68755: Sep 28th 2016 at 12:06:54 PM

[tup] to the Platoon rewrites and the Choice of Games writeups.

edited 28th Sep '16 12:44:29 PM by emperors

Welcome to the world of greatest media!
bobg Since: Nov, 2012
#68756: Sep 28th 2016 at 1:27:41 PM

Alright. I wasn't sure about the chef anyway. He just popped into my head while I was reflecting on how indie games don't usually have enough of a plot for villains to qualify for this trope. I just thought of him because it did have a clear plot, and he had a clear goal.

jjj
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#68758: Sep 28th 2016 at 1:46:12 PM

@Candi: Yeah, while that is a neat plan and a cool twist on the mythos, you are right in saying she's not really there.

Thanks for the submission though.

DeCarta Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: Desperate
#68759: Sep 28th 2016 at 2:54:26 PM

[tup] to Milius Black-Clad, Damon Killian, Anita, and Zharradan Marr.

[tdown] to Father Donald, JD, Carlton Finch, and the chef.

It is better to write for yourself and have no public than to write for the public and have no self.
Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#68761: Sep 28th 2016 at 4:02:29 PM

  • Lighty, should I add Hellebore with this week's, or wait for nrjxll?
  • FW, Ga'ran's in the drafts if you wanna play with the spoiler tags.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#68762: Sep 28th 2016 at 4:46:16 PM

Hey Ravok, have you also played Champion of the Gods? I'm interested if you think Daggoras or if any of the three Vestiges count.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#68763: Sep 28th 2016 at 6:22:34 PM

Champion of the Gods is on my replay list, as I have indeed played it before, though it's been a while. From what I remember of my playthrough, though, Daggoras and the Vestiges stuck out as particularly wicked.

Of course, I may be remembering wrong. [lol] Do you have any thoughts on them?

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68764: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:17:53 PM

Hey I have a question? I know the Western Animation/ South Park television series can't have complete monsters but what about the video games? South Park: The Fractured but Whole is coming Q1 and I want to ask if there is any possible chance that the video game might have a CM?

VeryMelon Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#68765: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:23:17 PM

No, for the same reasons South Park can't have one.

LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#68766: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:27:16 PM

[up][up][up]I think Daggoras would count depending on whether everyone would see him as a Well-Intentioned Extremist or simply power hungry. As for the vestiges, the first one with her undead family seemed far to insane to count, but the other two were quite heinous and fully aware of their actions.

edited 28th Sep '16 7:27:50 PM by LoreDeluxe

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
erazor0707 The Unknown Unknown from The Infinitude of Meh Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
The Unknown Unknown
#68767: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:54:24 PM

All right, here’s the effortpost for F.A.N.G. I said I’d do. Naturally, this contains spoilers for Street Fighter V.

What is the work?

Street Fighter V is the fifth installment of the Street Fighter franchise of fighting game community fame.

Who is the candidate?

F.A.N.G is the second-in-command of Shadaloo, ranking only below M. Bison in the hierarchy. He came from the Nguuhao, one of the largest cartels in Asia. The cartel is infamous for kidnapping children, training and using them as assassins via the art of poison. As one of these children, F.A.N.G was forced to learn the ways of the Poison Hand by way of exposing him to poison in controlled environments with the hope of eventually teaching him to turn the natural poisons in his body into a weapon. F.A.N.G grew up watching children all around him die, but he emerged as the cartel's strongest ever user of the Poison Hand, being dubbed "the Fang of the Nguuhao".

What he has done?

F.A.N.G.’s Arcade

  • As said before, the Nguuhao kidnap children. F.A.N.G himself narrates how children are exposed to poison and try to develop immunity through controlled exposure. Those who can’t withstand it die off. Introduced as one of the Nguuhao group, F.A.N.G helps his fellow lieutenants attempt an assassination on M. Bison. That goes about as well as you’d expect.

Other Arcades

  • In Cammy’s, he recognizes her by her codename (Killer Bee). He also tells her about Operation C.H.A.I.N.S before warning her that if she interferes, he will kill her with no mercy.

  • In Nash's prologue story, F.A.N.G interrupts the confrontation between a revived Charlie Nash and Ed. After a brief scuffle, F.A.N.G uses his poison cloud to escape with Ed.

  • In Alex's, F.A.N.G kidnaps Alex and forces him to fight in his lab's testing room against simulated versions of fighters. When Alex's overwhelming strength starts to cause the lab to crumble, F.A.N.G knocks out Alex and has him transported back to where he was found, with Alex waking up thinking it was a dream.

  • In Guile's, F.A.N.G confronts Abel, who is revealed to be a disguised Shadaloo soldier. He badly damages Abel and is about to finish him off with his poison, but is interrupted when Guile nearly manages to hit him with his Sonic Boom, which drags F.A.N.G into a fight with both of them. Afterwards, F.A.N.G escapes using his poison cloud and warns Guile that he will pay for his interference.

Cinematic Story

  • His first appearance sees F.A.N.G. chasing a fleeing scientist. He corners her and proceeds to kill her by poisoning her so badly she dissolves into a pool of poison. From which he takes a lick after saying she smells better that way. He immediately goes outside to intercept Rashid and, after fighting him and leaving him behind unconscious, takes a special item. This is before refusing to listen to reason about him wanting to see his friend. To F.A.N.G, it was give the item or die, no negotiations.

  • That item is, according to him, a control key as revealed in his next appearance. F.A.N.G destroyed a city’s electrical functions during an “AS” demonstration. We get a glimpse of the aftermath: a pile of cars, a few policeman lying motionless on the ground, and an open bank vault. Vega and Balrog were with him, but it isn’t made clear who involved they were. F.A.N.G. is the mastermind behind “Operation C.H.A.I.N.S”, a scheme to empower M. Bison. He then has two soldiers (puppets) affected by the operation attack Balrog and Vega, both of whom he calls incompetent fools.

  • Later on, F.A.N.G bumps into Sean, Laura’s younger brother, and asks where another control key (or piece) for the Black Moon is. When he shouts out Laura has it, F.A.N.G chokes and lifts him by the neck, demanding to know where it is while considering to use Sean as a life hostage against Laura. Luckily, Ken saves him, but F.A.N.G picks a fight with Ken on the grounds he got mud on his clothes.
  • Much later, at Shadaloo headquarters, Karin and Chun-Li abort Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. to stop the Black Moons. Unfortunately, F.A.N.G has a backup plan. Elsewhere, he threatens a little girl (incidentally the same one Rashid was first seen saving) into activating the “descent program” so the operation can’t be stopped anymore – threatens to melt her down like she did the programmer I mentioned in the first bullet point. Poor girl is terrified and has no choice but to comply.

  • Same place at a later time, F.A.N.G meets Rashid. The big reveal is dropped: that scientist F.A.N.G melted to poison goo? That was Rashid’s friend he’s been looking for this entire time. F.A.N.G took special delight in clarifying what he did when Rashid asked him to repeat himself. After the big battle, Rashid lets his guard thinking he beat him once and for all, only for F.A.N.G to strike him with a Poison Hand. As Rashid collapses, he mocks him, telling he must die now and join his friend in the afterlife.

  • A minor moment near the end, but he fights and dismisses März as a doll, preparing to off her for her defiance.

Heinousness standard?

As told by Vega, Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. is F.A.N.G’s brainchild. Using 7 enormous artificial Black Moons and several kidnapped and threatened researchers and hackers, Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. is a plan by F.A.N.G to spread fear, chaos, and despair across the globe and strengthen M. Bison to the point of invincibility (Bison’s Psycho Power feeds off that). While it obviously never comes to pass, we are given glimpses at the potential devastation. New York was shut down by one of the Black Moons via catastrophic electromagnetic pulse. A few cutscenes were dedicated to seeing how the rest of the world is handling the Black Moon disaster. Cities are said to be in so much panic a very low number of people have actually evacuated, fighter jets are disappearing off the map, and there is one where Helen watches a city blacken and burn (full of screaming people).

Street Fighter V also retroactively reveals that F.A.N.G was one of the chief engineers of the dolls project, working behind the scenes to outfit them with upgrades to increase their combat prowess and their connection to Psycho Power. We get to personally see the effect on the Dolls through the actions of Decapre and März.

Abel also gets influenced by the Psycho Power through F.A.N.G’s machinations. To say nothing of the people he’s threatened (Sean and the little girl programmer) as well as his graphic murder of Rashid’s friend.

Considering the scale of all that, I think F.A.N.G is heinous enough.

Redeeming Qualities?

See mitigating factors.

Freudian Excuse?

One of the many children Nguuhao kidnapped. But since he worked for them well enough to be promoted, and this aspect is never delved into, doesn’t sound like one.

Mitigating factors?

His “loyalty” to Bison, but let’s dissect it.

In F.A.N.G’s arcade mode, a prologue to the full story, he actively helps his fellows assassinate M. Bison and keeps trying despite being outmatched. Things grow grimmer and grimmer for F.A.N.G, yet he wants to live. So he begs for forgiveness and pledges loyalty. Context makes this sketchy. One minute he’s trying to kill him, the next he’s desperate to survive so he apologizes and says he’s eternally his. Sounds like F.A.N.G wasn’t being loyal, he was trying to save his own hide (even then it matters not, Bison is utilitarian).

Regardless, F.A.N.G is then shown to be fascinated by Bison’s power, especially since his poison does nothing to him. Operation C.H.A.I.N.S is a means to increase Bison’s power. If it were successful, untold destruction follows and Bison becomes unstoppable. Dude spends most of the time fascinated with his power (the bank scene with Vega and Balrog comes to mind).

F.A.N.G: As long as Lord Bison lives, this world is destined to become Hell.

F.A.N.G’s “loyalty” borders, or even is, fanaticism. He knows good and well nothing good will come out of a successful Operation C.H.A.I.N.S. Doesn’t care. It’s all for Lord Bison! Even Vega thinks it’s all “ugly”.

Final verdict?

[tup] He may be comical, but his actions are terrible. And the one potential disqualifier, loyalty to Bison, is the ravings of a Psycho Supporter.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.
Awesomekid42 Lord of Hell Since: Jul, 2012 Relationship Status: It was only a kiss
Lord of Hell
#68768: Sep 28th 2016 at 7:58:04 PM

Speaking of choice of games, I've played Diabolical multiple times months ago and think that Dr. Arachnus might count if my memory's correct. Might replay it a few more times to see if he's worth effort posting.

Mediawatcher Since: Dec, 2015
#68769: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:32:39 PM

[tup] fang

[down] same here

edited 28th Sep '16 8:48:18 PM by Mediawatcher

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#68770: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:39:22 PM

[tup] FANG

I hope we get an effort post on M. Bison soon.

edited 28th Sep '16 8:40:02 PM by G-Editor

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#68771: Sep 28th 2016 at 8:44:05 PM

Leaning [tup] for F.A.N.G., but being forced to be a poisonous Child Soldier seems like it could be a potential Freudian Excuse.

By the way, my film-watching schedule has changed, and I'll be seeing Blood Feast on Friday. I feel like Fuad Rameses could count.

Ravok RIP Toriyama Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
RIP Toriyama
#68772: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:35:16 PM

Leaining 'Yes' to F.A.N.G., but that could change as I mull over his Freudian Excuse a bit more.

Having played Diabolical not TOO long ago, I have to say Arachnus, though normally a Keeper most likely, would have a MUCH harder time qualifying due to the fact that you, as the MC, have the option to blow up the entire planet Earth at the end of the story.

I guess it just depends on how we judge the player character's actions in conjunction with the heinous standard of a story. Anyone have any opinions there?

Alright then, having done a replay of Champion of the Gods, I can safely say there's an easy Keeper. On an unrelated note, this game can go screw, as I just spent the better part of an hour enjoying it, then proceeded to get a cruddy ending for no discernible reason. >_<

CURSE THESE GAMES' LACK OF SAVE POINTS!!!!!!!!!!

(Ahem) LoreDeluxe, I agree with your assessment that the first Vestige is too insane to count, while the third is an inanimate object, thus disqualifying it for being.....an object.

I personally don't think Daggoras counts due to his Well-Intentioned Extremist personality seeming to be genuine, plus his being the God of Chaos throws his moral agency into SERIOUS question.

Who is he?

Sarpedon is the second of the "Vestiges" you encounter. Vestiges are powerful sorcerers who, centuries ago, were given their power by the gods, but turned against the gods in a quest for greater power.

Now, most of these Vestiges were slain in a great war against the gods, however 3 of them survived. Sarpedon is, as I said, the second.

What has he done?

Sarpedon resides on an island in the middle of a great ocean, where he regularly conjures up storms that cause ships to crash on his island.

Once the survivors of said crash gather their wits, Sarpedon uses his magic to coerce them into trusting him, then turns them into statues, a horrible And I Must Scream fate.

By the time the MC (Named whatever you choose it to be) accidentally crashes on his island with dozens of sailors, Sarpedon has turned hundreds of innocents into statues, and does the same to the dozens of sailors with the MC.

When the MC tries to stop him, Sarpedon begins draining the life force of many of his statues, resulting in them crumbling and perishing for good.

Using his amped up magic, Sarpedon wantonly blasts lightning at the MC and his newly-revived group, killing many of them, while continuing to drain evermore of his statues of their life forces.

Finally, the MC defeats Sarpedon, but even as he is dying, Sarpedon drains the life of a couple more statues just to spite the MC, and then releases a plague into a nearby city that plunges all those it infects into a deep slumber from which, if not awaken, will cause the hundreds infected to whither and die within a few days.

The MC finds the cure for this plague, and goes on to finish their quest.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?

Absolutely none. The guy's just a creep who views his victims as his own twisted art, that he has no problems destroying if they should resist him.

Heinousness?

Surprisingly? The worst in-story.

Neither the other vestiges nor the Big Bad have as an explicitly high bodycount, either successful and attempted, making him stand out quite a bit.

Overall, he trappex hundreds of innocents in And I Must Scream situations, killed many of them to siphon their life energy, murdered many of the MC's own crew, and released a virus to try to kill off an entire city of hundreds (If not thousands) of innocents just for spite.

Final Verdict?

Easy Keeper.

Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
LoreDeluxe Since: May, 2013
#68773: Sep 28th 2016 at 9:46:53 PM

[up]Since anyone can have their own interpretation of the story, I personally saw Daggoras as Faux Affably Evil when he tries to recruit you to destroy the concept of fate and was only in it for the power. A lot of the things he did seemed way to personal for me to consider him well intentioned since, in my playthrough in his efforts to kill the future champion of the gods, he corrupted the MC's father to try to murder him which resulted in the mother dying and the father exiled and Daggoras later has his bandit minions kidnap one of the MC's childhood friends to raise as his enemy. It might be worth an effort post on Daggoras just to see what everyone else thinks.

Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#68774: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:26:15 PM

So...another thing I've been reading...apparently Ultimate Reed Richards redemption was a complete sham and he's still an evil supervillain

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#68775: Sep 28th 2016 at 10:32:48 PM

I don't even remember him getting a redemption - not that I've really been paying attention.


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