During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Found that quote:
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IIRC, fictional depictions of real life characters can count. Nepoleon from Animal Farm is listed as a CP despite being clear-cut animal version of Stalin.
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Amon Göth and Edward Longshanks are prominent examples of fictionalized historical people counting (I think there are several versions of Oda Nobunaga, too, not to mention all the Jack the Rippers...). Now, if someone were to propose, say, an alternate universe Mohandas Gandhi or Martin Luther King who's a deranged mass murderer... I have no idea. I'd consider it a bit tasteless, but I don't know whether or not it's outright disallowed.
edited 25th Sep '16 10:26:14 AM by LordXavius
Guys, so today I am watching a movie that I am almost certain will have a CM. The Name Of The Rose set during Spanish Inquisition.
edited 25th Sep '16 10:59:20 AM by emperors
Welcome to the world of greatest media!So umm... I was thinking. For the Ace Attorney monster page, if there isn't an image there already could we have the picture of The Phantom wearing the Noh Mask be it's page image seeing as how other series are getting images. Why not Ace Attorney? The caption could be "He feels no emotion, no empathy, and most important: no regret." What do you guys think? Or we could have a picture of Matt Engarde in the Gyakuten Saiban anime laughing.
- "With a Bang" case note : The unnamed bomber is the Big Bad of this story. At the start of the story, he and another criminal used bomb threats in two apartment buildings to extort money from the police. Despite initially planning to not detonate the bomb and cause casualties, when the two were misinformed into thinking that the bomb really might explode, the bomber ignored it and said that they didn't need to care about lives when they've got money. When his accomplice, who had a conscience, accidentally died from a police chase when trying to stop the bombs from exploding, the bomber, using revenge as an excuse, reactivated the second undisarmed bomb, killing the police bomb technicians beside it. Four years later, he planted two sets of bombs, one at a Ferris wheel and a larger one at a hospital, and forced detective Jinpei Matsuda, ex-partner of one of the bomb technicians that had died years go as well as the then-partner/First Love of Miwako Sato) to sacrifice himself to find the location of the larger one . Three years after that, he bombed Inspector Shiratori's car, critically injuring Shiratori, before sending another bomb threat about two more sets of bombs, one at the Tokyo Tower and a larger one at a high school, where students are taking an exam, once again aiming to to humiliate the police. The bomber detonated the bombs inside the Tokyo Tower despite being aware of children inside it, showing nothing but amusement from the police's troubles. Ultimately, it is shown that he is nothing more than just a pathetic criminal looking to cause violence, and was never motivated by revenge.
- Pluto: Dr. Roosevelt is the immobile supercomputer who serves as the President of Thracia's personal advisor, and is ultimately the root of all the trouble in this reimagining of the Astro Boy story arc "The Greatest Robot on Earth". Seeking total subjugation of all humans and robots alike, Roosevelt manipulated Thracia into going to war with the seemingly-peaceful country of Persia, resulting in the deaths of millions of robots and hundreds of humans. Afterwards, with Persia now a desolate land of poverty, Roosevelt manipulates events to allow Dr. Abullah to create Pluto, a powerful robot that murders numerous good-natured robots as "revenge" for Persia's decimation, all according to Roosevelt's plan. In the end, Roosevelt is revealed to have assisted Abullah in planting an Anti-Proton bomb that will first lead to the obliteration of Thracia, then the deaths of 90% of the human race, at which point Roosevelt plans to rule supreme over whatever is left of human and robotkind. Leaving death and destruction galore across the world with his machinations, Roosevelt stands as a testament showing that, just as a machine can develop a soul for good, nothing is to stand in the way from one becoming selfish and sociopathic.
- Red Sprite: Lt. Colonel Shepherd discovers a new way to enhance the power of "Thundercore", an electrical substance that powers all of the world's technology. Cultivating children with Thundercore within them, Shepherd intends to use them as slaves to power up everything they can before the children are inevitably drained of energy and remain only as withered husks. When he discovers their location, having been rescued by a kind priest, Shepherd kills the man by crushing his heart and abducts the children, save for the hero Tatsu Frampt. Later returning to save his comrades, Tatsu sees that Shepherd is using dozens of people for their energy, bound to an airship whose capacity will kill them all very quickly. Showing no remorse, Shepherd is devoted only to his twisted views on science.
- Oxymoron, created by Tyler James and Cesar Feliciano: The titular Oxymoron is a supervillain who is obsessed with correcting people he sees as contradictory. These include Asshole Victims such as corrupt politicians, but are more often than not innocent civilians, including children. In "The Loveliest Nightmare", Oxy starts his reign of terror by forcing the mayor of the city of Swanstown to commit suicide under threat of his family being killed, after which he blows up a whole squadron of police officers who attempt to investigate the mayor’s house. He then manipulates a movie theater full of civilians to shoot each other in order to kill a senator, sends explosives to the loved ones of a crime boss and straps said crime boss to a wrecking ball before ramming it into the police commissioner's office. When Detective Clarke refuses to kill the man responsible for her partner’s death, the Oxymoron murders her boyfriend and kidnaps her boyfriend’s son Kyle, who he later kills in front of her. After months of spreading fear and chaos throughout Swanstown with his crimes, which include setting off a landmine in a diner, Oxy tries to force Clarke’s new partner to kill herself, and later attempts to kill Clarke in the same spot where he buried Kyle’s body.
- Secret Six:
- Junior, daughter of the first Ragdoll, is a crime boss so depraved and ruthless even Intergang gives her a wide berth. Famed for her cruelty and monstrousness, Junior routinely offers her victim a choice of dying horribly or letting Junior kill their families. When most choose the second choice, Junior records it, along with the victim's horrible death, and sends it to the families. Having obtained a card that is literally a pass out of hell, Junior kills and tortures countless people, raping men and women alike. When the card is stolen, Junior attempts to have her sins absolved by a priest, only to painfully kill the man when he refuses. Junior captures Bane of the Secret Six, who has the card, and tortures him with scissors and bricks to gain the location of the others. At the end, Junior loses control and attempts to slaughter every villain present when they see her mutilated true appearance, even her own brother Peter/Ragdoll II. Despite her backstory of her father having molested her, Junior is afforded no sympathy, knowing what a depraved monster she truly is and committing countless evil deeds because she loves it and feels she can get away with anything due to the card in her possession.
- Mr. Smyth from the the "Depths" arc is a man with a radical plan to "better" the world: Bring back the institution of slavery, as it is what "great nations" are built upon. Smyth takes in the slaves and forces them to work in horrible conditions, leading to their deaths from overwork, cave-ins or gas. When a slave named Maria refuses to work any more, Smyth has his assistant begin slaughtering innocent slaves en masse until a broken Maria promises to keep working. Smyth later tricks Deadshot into murdering Maria by offering her "freedom" if she can run to safety before telling Deadshot she is an escaping dangerous prisoner. Smyth also keeps Amazons as slaves with the intent to force them into servitude or death as well, and shows no concern over anything but the restoration of the institution of slavery.
- 22 Bullets: Pascal Vasetto is a Professional Killer in the employment of Tony Zacchia. We first see him leading a hit squad to try and assassinate Charly Mattei, shooting him 22 times and killing his dog. Later, he captures an informant for Charly, kills the guy who snitched on him, cuts his finger off and feeds him to vicious dogs. After being ordered to execute Charly's son, he murders a guard who refuses to help him off a kid before preparing to do so himself.
- While Dewey is the Big Bad of the movie, his chief henchman, the Asset, is just as monstrous. We get the first glimpse of his evil personality during the chase scene in Athens, where he murders several bystanders just to set up a sniper nest to ambush Bourne and Nicky with. Then, later, he derails Heather Lee's attempt to make contact with Bourne by murdering his fellow CIA operatives sent to monitor the meeting, callously disregarding the fact that they are his comrades and that they have nothing to do with his beef with Bourne. Finally, after failing in his attempt to assassinate Kalloor and Lee in Vegas, he murders a National Guardsman, hijacks his SWAT truck, and charges it straight into a traffic full of civilian cars just to put a few yards of distance from Bourne. In the climactic fight with Bourne, he denounces Bourne as "a traitor, always has been a traitor," even though he's the one who railroaded Bourne into the CIA by car-bombing Bourne's father, a loyal CIA employee, and attributing it to a terrorist organization. A complete hypocrite possessed by Revenge Myopia and It's All About Me mindset, the Asset has no regards whatsoever for the lives of civilians and even fellow CIA operatives he took, and as such is among the purest villains in the entire franchise.
- Mafia boss Frank Masucci was Law & Order's first recurring villain, and one of the worst. Loaning out his henchman Antonio "Tony" Scalisi to a group of corrupt city officials, Masucci had Scalisi kill Councilman Chuck Halsey on their behalf, then had Scalisi murdered after he was released by EADA Benjamin Stone, leaving the officials to take the fall for a racket he was complicit in. Reappearing in "The Torrents of Greed" "two-parter, Masucci and his brother-in-law Harv Biegel sent thugs to assault store owners who refused to buy bootleg cigarettes, leaving one man dead and one man crippled. Indicted for, among other crimes, the murder of Trucking Union President Russel Mackey, Masucci sabotaged the prosecution by forcing leg-breaker Joe Pilefski to perjure himself, and had Biegel killed when he became concerned his brother-in-law was getting ready to turn on him. After Biegel and Mackey's bodies—along with over a dozen others—were retrieved from a mass grave site in New Jersey, Masucci found himself re-indicted, only to be assassinated on orders from his sister, Katherine Biegel, who feared, with cause, that she was next on his hit list.
- The Lake, by Richard Laymon: Candyman is obsessed with photographing dark-haired women and later murdering them gruesomely, keeping the photos, of which he has enough to fill an entire scrapbook. His true identity is Mace Harrison, birth name Jess Payne, and the Evil Uncle of the novel's heroine Deana. Seducing her mother Leigh, who had Deana after a brief fling with Mace's brother Charlie, Mace grows abusive and cruel to her before revealing his true identity. Capturing Deana, he assaults her and plans to violate and kill her later along with her mother, as well as his own long-lost sister Tania. At the end, Mace tries to kill all of them, devoted to ridding the world of "whores," defined by his misogynistic sadism.
- Agent of the Empire: Iaco Stark was once a domineering young pirate who started the Stark Hyperspace War. Always managing to come out on top of every galactic conflict until the days of the Empire, upon reaching old age, Stark fakes his own death and has his head grafted onto a powerful, spider-like droid's body with a plan to unleash what is known as Iron Eclipse. Having his second wife Dah'Liss murdered when she inadvertently tells Imperial Agent Jahan Cross too much, Stark later murders his own son Iaclyn when he shows his half-sister compassion, Stark's first wife having had an affair. Stark then reveals his true motivations: to activate Iron Eclipse and make every droid in the galaxy begin killing their masters until they submit to Stark as the galaxy's new ruler, something that would create a death toll that would eclipse countless other villains.
- Kulipari: An Army of Frogs: Lord Marmoo, the brutal Evil Overlord of the scorpions, believes that the weak have no right to survive. Longing to destroy the fertile Amphibilands, Marmoo teams up with the Spider Queen Jarrah and leads the armies into battle, killing the Turtle King Sergu. Upon his initial defeat, Jarrah makes Marmoo stronger than before, whereupon he repays her by murdering her. Drunk on his newfound might, Marmoo attacks another village to raze it to the ground and kills the chief of the frogs himself. Returning to the spiders, Marmoo kills many of them by collapsing their fortress, not even caring his own men and brother Pigo are within. Forcing the surviving spiders into service, Marmoo attacks the Amphibilands, killing many frogs and even sneering that the only scorpions to die are those too weak to survive. Upon his victory, Marmoo banishes the frogs into the desert with no supplies, condemning them to slow death by heat and starvation. Not even his men are immune to his cruelty, as any scorpion injured in the fight, including Pigo, is given the choice of leaving or being eaten alive. Ambitious, brutal, cruel and egotistical a monster as they come, Marmoo believes only in power, domination and revenge with nothing to stand in his way.
- The Story Keepers: While the series teaches that you should forgive your persecutors, the villainous Nihilus stands against this, with his unwillingness to live up to his mistakes and accept forgiveness that makes him a monster. The centurion to Nero, he attempted to purge Rome of the Christians by force throughout the series, including him building a catapult and sending flaming debris into the tunnels that persecuted Christians were hiding in. Upon learning that a fellow centurion was a Christian, he tried to have him killed for treachery. He later set fire to homes of children with them still inside, all because they didn't submit to his emotional manipulation of them. He also arranges a public crucifixion for Ben and murders his student when he stops him from carrying it out. In the end, Nihilus had one single defining trait: his utter lack of a conscience.
- Brainiac 8, known better as Indigo, is a Coluan imprisoned on Krypton for attempting to destroy the Kryptonian people. When she introduces herself on earth, she turns every light in National City green, causing accidents and endangering hundreds of lives. Soon revealing her darker side, Indigo tries to launch nuclear missiles to destroy National City, planning to Kill All Humans. When defeated, she later teams up with Kara's Evil Uncle Non and activates Project Myriad to put humanity into a trance-like state. Indigo then puts her plan a step further into motion: to enhance the power to kill everyone else on earth and then leave the planet, leaving Kara stranded as "queen of a dead world." Even in her last moments, Indigo gloats that she had left Project Myriad impossible to stop, taking comfort that humanity will follow her to the grave.
- The Destroyer is an immortal Satanic space entity who is the nemesis to Amtrak's heroic figure, as foretold in an ancient prophecy. He both hates his brother and hopes to seduce him into evil while killing as many as he can. When they are both resurrected by the crew of a space ship on the instigation of godlike beings playing Divine Chess to restart the eternal Game between them, the Destroyer uses the vast powers he possesses even as a child to turn the thousands of colonists onboard the aforementioned spaceship into living dead. Promising them dominion over Earth, the Destroyer has three thuggish raiders, Havoc, Snakebite and Shadow, use their technology to age him up to adulthood after cursing their chief to burn alive in perpetual fire, only to later kill the man to "free him from his pain". The Destroyer devours the lifeforce of everyone else on the planet to complete his transformation and, once awakened, forces the three raiders into his service before sending them out to kill the only man who knows how to reseal him. He curses Amtrak to suffer forever in horrible agony mutating Amtrak's body while also giving him a Healing Factor. The Destroyer then rampages across the galaxy, destroying dozens of worlds by driving their inhabitants to madness and suicide. He turns the Earth itself into a new hell that he renames Armageddon, blocking out the sun and destroying civilization, turning the oceans into burning acid in which people are forced to swim forever, and allowing his demonic minions the Cromos to hunt down the remaining humans to torture them to death or cannibalize them. When one of the Cromos asks him what he will do with them once humanity is gone, the Destroyer assures him that he'll wipe them all out too before burning off his wings and throwing him into the boiling ocean.
- Thomas Caliban, the leader of the Family and the prophet of Helter Skelter, is a godlike Dark Messiah who otherwise goes by the moniker of the Lizard King. When he first came to the new earthbound heaven of San Francisco he was cast out by the superhuman prophet Dr. Trips (Timothy Leary), who recognized the evil inside him. Caliban and his cult followers would organize their own dark ceremonies in service of their master, who also reached transcendence, and enslave those who follow him with false preachings that rob them of their mind and will. At first he and his flock pick off pilgrims on their way to San Francisco so Caliban can personally murder them in human sacrifices before he sends out his zombielike followers to destroy all in their path as he announces the end of the world. The Gospel of Helter Skelter prophesizes the destruction of Heaven, then the war on Earth that would leave only the Lizard's King's children alive to serve him. While his soldiers lay waste to San Francisco and proceed to destroy the new eden, Caliban forces several of his "children" to engage in an orgy with him before he devours their lifeforce to fuel his transcendental powers. This way he can travel between the planes of reality to take over the body of Dr. Trips, before engaging in a massacre in the heroes' camp and also destroying all the other metahumans. As San Francisco is burning, Caliban spends his time flying around the city and incinerating any survivors. Finally, he tracks down one of Dr. Trips's pregnant wives to a place just outside the city limits, ordering his servants to rip the child from her womb so he can eat it.
edited 26th Sep '16 11:28:38 AM by ACW
Well, since Terrence Trent D'Arby's discussion is back on
Here's the cut argument I put forward
, for anyone new who wants to get into it.
The basic gist is whether or not he meets the heinous standard.
Anyway, since we still done have an image for the One Piece monster page, here one I found for Kuro that we could use.
We could just cut that bottom panel
◊
edited 25th Sep '16 2:54:19 PM by Awesomekid42
I think you forgot to add a space between the comma and "believes" in Marmoo's writeup. It reads like "scorpions,believes" right now.
I'm sorry; I know I can be annoying about that.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.Aside from Lord Marmoo does Queen Jerrah counts we have not heard much about her?
My sandbox of EPs and other stuffI found this on the Street Fighter V page:
- Complete Monster: Once you get past F.A.N.G's wacky mannerisms and explore his story, the Shadaloo dictator's Sycophantic Servant proves to be this easily. The man endured Training from Hell to turn his hands into poison in order to become an elite assassin by way of corroding and dissolving people to death, has absolutely no regard for the clan that trained him once they're killed all around him for attempting a coup and in fact worships their killer once he comes to believe said killer is the ultimate bringer of death, is demonstrably perfectly willing to use the abilities he got from his training on helpless children and teenagers without even a hint of a second thought and then later gloat to his victims' loved ones, is barely holding in an absolutely psychotic temper that peters out whenever he or his master are denied their wishes, and ultimately is the brains behind a plot to drive the world into a cesspool of chaos and death using a set of artificial moon spheres in any number of ways in order to feed his master's power to the point of invincibility.
I went ahead and removed that since I see it wasn't approved or even proposed here before. With that said, I think F.A.N.G may be worth a discussion.

I'm sorry to repeat a question I asked 2 pages ago, but it seemed to have been swallowed up by another discussion. So, i'll ask it again. Does the rules regarding fanfics also apply to Alternate History stories (like from AH.com)?
edited 25th Sep '16 9:45:14 AM by oshbosh