During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "
to everyone I missed").
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What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Scratch the proposal. The character I was thinking of (the Lord of Darkness from Legend (1985)) is ultimately motivated by self-preservation, and I'm not sure if he goes beyond standard Evil Overlord behaviour.
There's also Darkness becoming a lovesick puppy for Lily, complete with What Is This Thing You Call "Love"?.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"On True Lies... didn't Aziz try to kill Harry's daughter as well after she stole the keys? I'm not quite buying the argument that Juno stands out when her terrorist compatriots do the exact same thing (i.e. nuclear attacks on U.S. cities) as her for ostensibly Well-Intentioned Extremist reasons. Also, Aziz is clearly the one in charge, not jointly with Juno (even punching her in the face when she does something stupid), so he bears a greater responsibility. And lastly there's the comedic-ness of the movie which has already been mentioned. Yes, the nuclear bombs are treated seriously, but Juno's death after a Cat Fight with Helen is treated less like "finally that monster is dead" and more like "haha, karma for the token greed-driven villain". And let's not even get into Aziz's Loony Tunes-like demise.
edited 10th Sep '16 5:37:55 AM by Morgenthaler
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"I'll request cutting Hansel Monday when I submit the batch,
Here's a random question: Outside of the 2000 AD CMs (Brenneka, Torquemada, Judge Death and Sabbat) and the Star Wars ones (Tarkin, Palpatine, Onimi), which CM has the highest body count? Dr. Deverich has a high one, while the DBZ trio (especially Frieza) can't be forgotten either,. Let's stick with successful ones here; otherwise we could list damn near every Omnicidal Maniac CM.
edited 10th Sep '16 8:20:28 AM by ACW
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Brainiac outdoes everybody on the list you just posted, with the annihilation of thousands of worlds and trillions of lives under his belt. Trigon outdid even him, having annihilated all the life in his home universe. And there are people on the list who have done worse, killing multiple universes. It's more or less a pointless question.
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Even when he goes after Dana (as bad as that is), his motivations are still in play. There's a little bit of comedy in the fight between Helen and Juno in the end, but Helen is still clearly in danger and that's not pushed aside. Plus, Helen is trapped in the unstoppable limo that is heading straight for the end of the bridge and there is a lot of suspense in that. Yes, her death is also not treated as a huge thing and Aziz' is more satisfying, but Juno's clearly is still satisfying either way.
The vote was I think 4-1 in favor, now it's 3-2 in favor.
edited 10th Sep '16 9:03:10 AM by futuremoviewriter
'Yes' to Kodoroff
@ACW: First off, to answer your question about He-Man, I....have no idea where it should go. If it doesn't warrant it's own heading, I would say put it in Post-Crisis.
Second of all, Mansfield's goal is to find a way to learn how the immortality serum works, so that he can synthesize and mass-produce it to everyone in the world, thus curing all diseases and such. Now, don't gfet me wrong, the guy's a cruel prick about the whole thing, and he is never treated as sympathetic or extremely understandable in-story, but ultimately, he's got a very "The needs of the many". To quote him, "You can save 6 billion people from every diease known to man and prolong their lives indefinitely. And all you'd have to do would be to sacrifice one or two thousand girls that society doesn't even care about."
The guy's creepy as heck, but still.
No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!At the top of my head Kil'jaeden has spent 25 thousand years destroying every planet he could find and Bill Cipher destroyed his home dimension and one of his minions said something that amounted to "I have slaughtered billions on countless moons" so they have a pretty big bodycount as well.
Not sure on Juno.
Anyways, since Pennywise was briefly brought up, I'd like to note that this
is happening.
Found this on the Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep YMMV.
- Complete Monster: Master Xehanort started out with good intentions, but then uses Ventus to combine him with Vanitas in order to allow himself access to Kingdom Hearts, thereby gaining control of all worlds and plunging the multiverse into a second Keyblade War, which was what broke the worlds apart in the first place. The reason? He just wants to see what will happen as a result. Terra, meanwhile, is manipulated into succumbing to darkness, so he can provide a suitable new vessel for Xehanort to steal. He shows no remorse for his actions, even though his manipulations are responsible for pretty much everything that is wrong in the Kingdom Hearts universe.
Eraqus: You would risk an apocalypse out of sheer curiosity!?
I know Master Xehanort is already listed as a CM, but this one is written rather differently from the official one. Keep or cut?
Kodoroff.
I'm gonna have to
Juno. I've seen that movie before multiple times; nothing she did really stood out to me. Combine that with the comedic tone of the film, and she really doesn't stand out much. She struck me as another greedy person willing to sell out their own country for money, but not a full-blown CM.
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But that's pretty bad though given what's at stake. In fact, while Aziz is the main villain and she's secondary to him, I think it's appropriate to say she shares the Big Bad status with him.
We also have Loveless from Wild Wild West, which both and the movie are extremely comedic, but does take his actions very seriously.
Anyway, vote is now 3-3 or 3-4 against.
edited 10th Sep '16 12:24:51 PM by futuremoviewriter

I might have a proposal from a fairly famous '80's fantasy film soon.