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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#67326: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:25:33 AM

It's not me being angry, it's that you've done this multiple times with the fishing.

And sigh...it seems we've got a comics cut coming that I'm really not happy about. should I say now, or wait a bit? It's from the new Fables sequel

ACW from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#67327: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:31:17 AM

If nobody else reads Fables, I'm fine with it now. If nothing else, I'm curious which Fables CM it is. If the sequel is indeed canon.

edited 9th Sep '16 11:32:52 AM by ACW

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#67328: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:43:38 AM

I'm fine with it being said now.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#67329: Sep 9th 2016 at 11:50:44 AM

I'm also fine with it, but I should note that I don't care about Fables, like, at all, so I may not be the best person to ask.

edited 9th Sep '16 11:51:46 AM by nrjxll

Clown-Face Wild Child from Canada Since: Dec, 2015 Relationship Status: In another castle
Wild Child
#67330: Sep 9th 2016 at 1:56:52 PM

[tdown]Blind Man.

Why so serious?
sanfranman91 Since: Jan, 2012 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#67331: Sep 9th 2016 at 2:18:39 PM

[tup] to Ming and [tdown] to Blind Man.

Re: Ryoma and Lock Dealer Sid - I watched Kamen Rider Gaim and I can say right away that Lock Dealer Sid doesn't qualify because his actions fail the heinous standard when compared to those from Ryoma, Redyue and Mitsuzane. As for Ryoma, I was planning to write him up but I never got around to him due to studying, work, and personal conflicts. I was also getting worn out by the franchise and didn't feel like rewatching the series to check upon the details for an effortpost for Ryoma (his list of crimes in Urobuchi-written episodes is pretty damn long).

N3xus, if you want to takeover the effortpost feel free to do so.

edited 9th Sep '16 3:07:54 PM by sanfranman91

futuremoviewriter Since: Jun, 2014
#67332: Sep 9th 2016 at 3:04:07 PM

Abstaining on Ming for now as I haven't seen the movie. [tdown] for Nordstrom (the Blind Man). I haven't seen the movie, but from what I know, he loved his daughter.

The Charlie's Angels 2011 candidates are coming next week.

DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#67333: Sep 9th 2016 at 3:17:57 PM

Alright, Transformers Effort Post:

First Candidate: Tarn.

Who is he?

Tarn is the leader of the Decepticon Justice Division, and easily one of the franchise's biggest Knight Templar characters. The DJD's job is to cull the ranks of cowardly or treacherous Decepticons, some of whom are guilty of only being religious. They are a pack of torturers and mass murderers.

Series Spoilers: We learn that Tarn was actually a former Autobot named Damus, acting as one of the first people under Optimus Prime. Damus was born differently, having the ability to cause glitches in other people, he crossed the old Cybertronian Government, and they had his head and hands removed and gave him a cycloptoid head and barely functioning claw hands. These were done as a mark of shame to all who would go against their policies, and Damus was ousted.

He joined up with Optimus Prime when Optimus was first rebelling against the government, but under unknown circumstances he fell in under Megatron, and grew to be one of his most fanatical followers.

What's he done?

Before entering the DJD, Damus was put in charge of Grindcore prison, a brutal establishment known for torturing and executing prisoners. The prisoners all had drills implanted in their mouths that would pierce their brains should they rebel. Damus convinces one of the heroes, Skids, to help him repair a teleporter so he can send more Prisoners out to the colony worlds and force them to work there. When Skids does so, Damus reveals that it was the Smelting chamber that he had repaired, and happily burns 40 prisoners alive for raw materials to produce a new generation of Decepticons.

As head of the DJD, Tarn executed or ordered the execution of several characters, including Black Shadow, Blip, and Flywheels. He demands that the Autobot medical station, Delphi, pay him in Transformation cogs (the organs that TF's use to Transform) to have him not attack the station. Tarn does this because he's addicted to Transforming, and burns through T-Cogs quickly. This leads to Pharma (a character who was agreed on to be a CM) killing numerous patience to satisfy Tarn's demand.

When he learns that one of his men is a spy, Tarn has him lobotomized to serve as their attack dog.

When Tarn is alerted to another traitor's presence, Overlord, he and his men dope themselves up on Superfuel and head to execute him. They originally agreed to spare everyone on the ship, but upon seeing another traitor, they kill everyone on board (the ship was full of duplicates of the main crew cloned from a flawed warp, it's very convoluted, the point is he killed hundreds of people).

Upon learning Megatron has pulled a Heel–Face Turn Tarn teams up with a number of other Decepticons and goes to hunt him down. Tarn himself kills Ravage, and Megatron ends up killing him and all of the DJD.

Redeeming Qualities

Here's where it get's tricky. Tarn himself is a complicated person. His loyalty to his teammates goes back and forth from Pet the Dog to Bait the Dog. When he sees Kaon doubled over from a psychic attack Tarn, who doesn't know what's going on, rushes to him asking if he needs help. However after they get into a conflict with the Galactic Counsel, Tarn leaves Kaon and Vos behind, threatening to kill Tesarus when he criticizes him for it. However, upon finding that they were alive, Tarn goes to rescue them.

Tarn indoctrinates a neutral Transformer he finds into the Decepticons after finding her homeworld destroyed. She acts as their medic, and Tarn treats her with respect, proud to be helping a fellow Cybertronian and getting her to follow the doctrine of his leader.

When ordered to kill his own men to forge and alliance with some rogue Decepticons, Tarn steadfastly refuses, surprising himself at the act.

However, Tarn's biggest Kick the Dog moment is when he discovered that Kaon had left some Autobots get away, he kills Kaon, shocking his other comrades.

When the battle with Megatron rages on, Tarn orders the rest of his men to hang back so Megatron doesn't kill them, and when they die it seems to spark some emotion in him.

Freudian Excuse

The mutilation he received could count as this. But by present day he's probably become worse than any of the previous government.

Heinous Standard

This is also where it gets tricky. Decepticon commanders all do atrocious things. Megatron himself ended over a dozen different civilizations.

Shockwave ruined several planets and killed off their populations and that was before he tried to scrub the universe of all life. Bludgeon dropped a dangerous and unstable Transformer onto at least 2 planets to "cleanse them." Deathsaurus Cyberformed dozens of captured planets into Decepticon battle stations, presumably killing their inhabitants. Scorponok blew a hole into Cybertron and killed hundreds of innocents when he detonated a refinery, and after that tampered with technology of a dozen other planets leading them to ruin (Off Stage Villainy though). Nova Prime and D-Void actively tried to end all of creation (the latter of whom is too eldritch for morality). And Galvatron kills off "subspecies" of Transformers, basically anything that doesn't adhere to his "ideal" of what a Transformers should be (though others say its just an excuse for him to cause violence).

Black Shadow and Sixshot are responsible for cleansing several inhabited worlds, adding to Megatron's genocide, and Overlord has the same kill count as those two, except he's far more malicious and performs more onscreen carnage, which got him the vote.

So, all in all, I give Tarn a [tdown]

edited 9th Sep '16 3:24:16 PM by DrPsyche

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#67334: Sep 9th 2016 at 3:59:58 PM

[up] No to Tarn, but what's this particular Transformers work he's from?

Shadao Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Dorzma Forever! Artwork by Kris Dobbins.
#67335: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:29:47 PM

[up] IDW continuity.

n3xus I am the King! from Somewhere in the Mirror World Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: In season
I am the King!
#67336: Sep 9th 2016 at 4:36:55 PM

So Sid/KR Sigurd's a no good. Very well, I'll try to write Ryoma Sengoku. BTW I was also proposing another CM by the name of Takaaki Tenjo from Kamen Rider Amazons since he is the mastermind behind the escape of the rampaging Amazonz as he only prioritize the experiment over public safety and he has a Social Darwinist philosophy. What do you guys think?

edited 9th Sep '16 4:39:46 PM by n3xus

This is all Zi-O's fault!
DrPsyche Avatar by Leafsnake from Hawaii Since: May, 2012
Avatar by Leafsnake
#67337: Sep 9th 2016 at 5:28:53 PM

[up][up][up] The Transformers: More than Meets the Eye.

[up] Go ahead, make a write up, we'll discuss.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#67338: Sep 9th 2016 at 5:41:30 PM

No to Tarn. He sounds pretty unique, but he doesn't quite hit the mark.

Ravok Son of Liberty from Big Shell Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Son of Liberty
#67339: Sep 9th 2016 at 5:47:16 PM

'No' to Tarn.

Anywho, I've got a candidate or two to propose, so let's get down to it.

What's the work?

Night Chill, by Jeff Gunhus, is a supernatural thriller detailing the story of a man named Jack Tremont who encounters a stranger one night. This stranger is quite terrifying, with the fact that he knows Jack's name and past being even creepier.

Also the fact that he tries to kidnap Jack's 6-year-old daughter, Sarah, straight from his car.

Who is he?

Nate Huckley is said stranger, and is one half of the Big Bad Duumvirate.

He's also a psychic psychopath. Yeah...

What has he done?

We first see good old Nate while he is charming a 17-year-old girl into letting him into the shop she is locking up for the night. He successfully manipulates her by using his psychic abilities to read her mind and learn her personality.

After gaining her trust, Nate locks her in the trunk of his car, and, getting to an isolated location, stops driving and simply uses his powers to peer into her mind and observe the terror she is experiencing and the....imaginative ways she thinks he is going to torture and kill her. Nate is obviously getting off on this, BTW.

Nate then gets a telepathic "signal" from "The Source" (More on this later), telling him his next target is Sarah Tremont, a 6-year-old girl, to which Nate responds with glee.

Attempting to kidnap Sarah and her older sister, Becky, Nate tries to kill their father, Jack, when he interferes, and, after a car chase, Nate is left in a coma.

However, Nate's powers are far stronger than first believed, and he begins reaching out with his mind and terrorizing/killing off sickly patients around the hospital for fun and to regain his strength.

Nate begins using his mind to terrorize Jack into near-insanity, and almost tricks him into beating his dog and wife to death with a baseball bat at one point.

Later, Nate lures Sarah to his room, and, due to assistance from the other Big Bad, Dr. Mansfield, Nate is back up from his coma, and the two quickly kidnap Sarah and frame Jack for it.

The truth is then revealed: Nate, Mansfield, and a few other men have been alive and youthful since 1812, when they discovered a "fountain of youth" of sorts.

This fountain of youth is actually an Eldritch Abomination named "The Source", a being that, in return for being fed humans, releases a liquid that gives temporary immortality (Any fatal wounds will still kill them, but minor wounds or non-fatal ones will heal way quicker than normal). This creature gives out more of the immortal juice when the victim is a young female, so yeah.

Nate, Mansfield, and their group have kept themselves alive these 200 hundred years by routinely kidnapping and murdering teenage-and-younger girls who "won't be missed", such as runaways and junkies and such. In contrast to his compatriots, Nate takes sadistic pleasure in drawing out his victims' deaths and actually enjoys the fact that his targets are primarily young girls.

Overall, their amount of teenage and child victims easily reach the hundreds. Yup.

Anytime someone starts to suspect them, they kidnap, torture, and murder said someones, with Nate obviously enjoying this.

Mansfield and Nate kidnap Lauren, Jack's wife, after ordering Jack and his friend, Lonetree, to be tortured to death by the rest of their group.

After ordering Lauren to be raped by one of their minions, Nate and Mansfield prepare to butcher Sarah and feed her to the Source, with Nate believing the Source will grant him godlike abilities and which he will use to kill anyone he wants, however, due to Sara having some psychic abilities of her own, the Source uses her to escape it's prison.

Nate immediately guns down Sarah with a shotgun, knowing her powers are helping the Source gain it's strength , however it is too late at this point: Mansfield is slashed in half by the Source, while Nate gets a (deservedly) horrific death by being slowly ripped apart by the Source.

Sarah's powers allow her to survive, and Jack and his family get a happy ending (FOR NOW!)

Throughout the story, Nate is a Faux Affably Evil sadist, who uses his powers to bring up people's most painful memories and taunt them with them.

Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?

Hehe.....no. Unlike the rest of his group, even Mansfield, Nate has nothing sympathetic or well-intentioned about him. He kills to keeo himself immortal. He wants to stay immortal so he can keep killing.

That's it. Unlike Mansfield, who ultimately has a twisted, yet somewhat well-intentioned, goal, Nate fully plans to just keep on killing innocents for as long as he can, regardless what happens with the Source.

Heinousness?

As one of the two Big Bad (s), he's the worst in-story.

Overall, this jackhole's got the hundreds of painful deaths of innocent teenage and preteen girls on his hands, Mind Rape through various means, trying to force guy to beat his dog and wife to death with a baseball bat, ordering a woman to be raped, and doing it all For the Evulz.

Final Verdict?

Easy Keeper.

edited 9th Sep '16 5:52:30 PM by Ravok

No! That is NOT Solid Snake! Stop impersonating him!
Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#67340: Sep 9th 2016 at 5:58:51 PM

[up] Yes to Nate. The work any good? It at least sounds a good cut up above some of the other "one-dimensional psychopath" thrillers you've had to slog through.

edited 9th Sep '16 5:59:38 PM by Scraggle

username2527 Since: Nov, 2013
#67341: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:01:23 PM

[tup]Nate. What about The Source? Or is he Made of Evil?

G-Editor The 47th President Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Klavice (Elder Troper)
#67344: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:11:52 PM

Hello everyone. Perhaps you all know me as someone who used to propose ridiculous examples (including one I swear I should have gotten banned for). But I've been doing some behind the scenes work on certain pages, and if you will forgive me, I'd like to rejoin the CM discussion. I am a lot more stable than I was before, and let's just put the past behind and talk about some reprehensible characters.

I am currently in the middle of a Spirit of Justice playthrough, and from the spoilers I've read, I've deduced that the Big Bad for once ISN'T a complete monster. But since there is a two week rule in place, I'll stop talking about them. (Just like AAI 2 big bad) Not going to say why they're not, though I'd be happy to discuss them regardless, when the two week time limit is up. I've asked myself what it means to contribute to Tv Tropes and while I've got my problems, I just want to be liked again.

Also late [tdown] to Redd White. He doesn't even compare with the Big Bads of Ace Attorney (especially Manfred who's sent god knows how many innocent people to the gallows, and that's not counting the convictions by his disciples and Phantom who bombed an entire courtroom, has killed at least 3 people, or four if you count the real Bobby Fulbright) and most of what White does is offscreen villainy. A huge [tdown] to Morgan Fey, unless we're talking about the anime version which has a slight chance of qualifying given that she planned every murder involving Kurain. Redd White honestly, is a case of "show, don't tell". He's a horrible person no doubt, but first and foremost the suicides are mostly of Asshole Victims who had it coming (the one I remember in the most detail was the politician who was embezzling money). If we were to talk about anyone from the original series besides the current examples, Redd would likely be the obvious choice, but again, I can't see him standing up against Manfred.

Finally, before I forget, should we talk about the current Ace Attorney examples' actions in the anime adaptation and if they should be added to their laundry list? If nobody wants to, that's fine but... it's shown in the anime Manfred didn't care one bit about his daughter or adopted son (even though anime adaptations usually humanize characters that may have counted in the original material.) Mark my words, I will not propose any more ridiculous examples if you all will accept me again.

edited 9th Sep '16 6:25:00 PM by Klavice

AustinDR Lizzid people! (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Lizzid people!
#67345: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:19:04 PM

I thought you were banned from the forum.

[down] He's already on Ace Attorney.

edited 9th Sep '16 6:25:52 PM by AustinDR

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#67346: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:19:04 PM

[up][up] Welcome back.

[up] I think the ban expired a while ago.

What's the tally on Redd so far? I recall votes on both sides.

Also, now that it's the weekend, I'm probably going to be having a few proposals in the next days to come as I'm going on a sort of marathon of films I've been meaning to watch and stuff I've been meaning to read. Expect me to be busy.

edited 9th Sep '16 6:19:21 PM by Scraggle

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#67347: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:23:08 PM

[tup] Nate

[tdown] Tarn, due to potential redeeming features.

[up] Did you get ahold of Hard to Kill?

Klavice (Elder Troper)
#67348: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:27:19 PM

@Austin DR: Hey, if Phoenix Wright can get his badge back and redeem himself, I think everyone deserves a second chance. And the ban wasn't just for the forum IIRC, it was from the entire site. It expired sometime in June or May when I appealed to the moderators. But enough of that.

Scraggle Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#67349: Sep 9th 2016 at 6:27:53 PM

[up][up] I have. I'll be watching it tonight or tomorrow.


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